Milkman delivers

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 12:10 PM) He's halfway there, and many would argue he's accomplished the more difficult half. To clean up the mess Riccardi left for him in less than two years time, amazing. Imagine a GM coming to the White Sox and somehow ridding the team of even two of Dunn, Rios and Peavy - while at the same time bringing in cheap/team-controlled talent (Lawrie, Escobar, Rasmus) and upgrading a below average farm? Again, in less than two years. We'd be ready to erect a statue for the guy (I'd be ready to suck him off). You're just a little too over the top. The guy's team has yet to even finish in 3rd place. Yes, he's made some nice moves. But his team still has to do something of significance, which I wouldn't call "halfway there". It's going to take a lot.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 11:16 AM) It's Friedman at this point (with AA closing in). What he's been able to accomplish in that division defies any scientific logic. They draft better than any team in baseball, they've made multiple outstanding trades (Zobrist, Joyce, both Garza trades, Kazmir), they put a STRICT emphasis on defense (just check their UZR figures the last four years) and baserunning. Just an amazing organization and one that I truly envy. I know you love AA, but he should be nowhere close at this point.

I would imagine that a 4-point jump in average is really, really difficult at this point in the season, especially when it's already that high. Probably near impossible.

That part about wanting to see how other organizations are run is pretty interesting. You wonder if he meant anything more by it. Either way, it does sound like he's seriously thinking about leaving.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 10:12 AM) I get what you are trying to say, but it is this very mentality that is sucking the fun out of the GAME of baseball. It isn't just about what statistics a player puts up. If that were really the case, it would be easy to write an algorithm and let it decide who should be in the HOF. Baseball has ALWAYS been a game of stats, always. The criteria for induction into the Hall of Fame has always been stats. There might be a few exceptions, but that's how it's always been. You're confusing "the game" with the Hall of Fame.

QUOTE (MAX @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 08:01 AM) He really isnt very small. 5' 11" and 185? Curious about how big some of the people here who are calling him little are. This is the same thing as when people refer to a player as bad. Sure, he's light years ahead of any of us, but that's not the implicit comparison. And everyone knows this, but some people just want to stand out and bring a philosophical point into a discussion that doesn't need it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 09:26 AM) DKnobler DKnobler by ESPNChiSox Over his last 22 starts, Verlander has held opponents to .529 OPS. That's 70 points less than Alex Rios, worst in majors this year. Haha, people can't help but take shots at our futility.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 05:29 AM) Tough to celebrate guys who achieved because of cheating, well for most people it is. So at the end of his career. and he'll need many more years of 12-15 wins, would you rather visit the hall and see a video of Mark's no hitters and him sliding on a tarp, pitching in a World Series, smiling, or Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, etc etc? Which promotes the game of baseball more? It should be a celebration, but is it when this era produced so many dark moments? That's also a reason why I believe the hall needs Frank in on the first ballot. You're making it sound like it has to be Baines/Buehrle or the steroid guys. None of them needs to be in there. There's no prerequisite for how many players need to be elected every year. There are still enough guys that are honorable and have the numbers to back it up. The last thing the Hall of Fame needs is more dilution. I just get sick of hearing about Harold Baines being a Hall of Famer. He's simply not one. As soon as they open up a Hall of Pretty Good, he can be the first enshrined as far as I'm concerned. You're letting your personal bias of having watched and rooted for the guy cloud your judgment. The voters got it right, as I don't think he's ever gotten anywhere near enough votes to get in.

Oh, and I don't think very many people believe that just dropping Walker will cure the team's offensive woes. That's a straw man. The vast majority seems to think that it simply wouldn't hurt.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 05:30 AM) And how many went to other teams and really improved? One I can think of, that was Swisher, who didn't work with Walker, but I suppose we can blame Walker in a Ms. Cleo sort of way. Rowand had a big second year in Philadelphia, but guess who he worked with the winter before that year, and that year was very similar to his 2004? I also agree that Walker being gone is a foregone conclusion, but if anyone thinks that will cure their offensive woes, they are going to be dissappointed. So bold!

Can't argue there.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 09:50 PM) Milkman, Kitekrazy hit the nail on the head, people have been saying its common sense that Greg Walker will be gone for longer than I can remember. So to act as if its a "done deal" is just ignoring all historical evidence. I personally believe that Walker will not be back, but I wouldnt be so bold to guarantee it. DA, Another argument is how many Sox hitters went on to other teams to drastically improve under another hitting coach? I just dont think the Sox have had a lot of offensive players who have been complete hitters. You don't seem to be so bold as to go out on a limb for anything. It's an internet message board, not court. Loosen up.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 08:28 PM) "Players look forward to the bonus as a nice Christmas present" -- Hawk yesterday Exactly. It's insulting as hell. And did anyone else get a little angry looking at Beckham's s***-eating grin in the 9th today? Wipe that smile off of your face. Your team is terrible and about to drop another game. And obviously I'm happy that they're losing to get better draft positioning, but I don't want the players to act like they couldn't give a s*** less about the game.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 07:12 PM) Brooks Boyer should tell Hawk to stiffle the "race for second place" crap. If second place in the AL Central is any reason to celebrate even a little bit, no wonder the Sox are a dissappointment. Like I've said, it's a slap in the face of the fans.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 06:24 PM) Hey Milkman, Adam Dunn has more strikeouts than his batting average. Ha! Then I read this and liked you even more.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 06:15 PM) Marty... why must you be a smartass? Seriously man, give it a rest lol. You are a quality new poster, pettie. I like you.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 21, 2011 -> 12:35 AM) Bump.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 05:16 PM) You had some good words in the post: buffoonery, moronic and of course, f***ing. Yep, and all in reference to your post or theory, not you

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 04:51 PM) You must have taken Greg off ignore. I've actually been clicking to un-ignore him the last few weeks to see how hard he's taking the eventual Ozzie firing.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 07:47 PM) Who is the top 3 pick position player that KW signed to a minor league contract? De Aza was a waiver claim, he's hitting .320 Again, you wanted examples, I gave you similar examples. Caufield said Quentin was great but regressed, I pointed out most of Cooper's projects also regressed. Facts are facts. Walker is a lot better than the average Sox fan thinks. You remember every hitting failure, but forget every pitching failure. I really don't want Cooper fired. I think he's fine. I just would like this board to treat him the same way Greg Walker gets treated. Maybe you will see how silly you are after a while. To be fair, De Aza came up and hit immediately. Unless Greg Walker fixed him in the hours before his first game, you can't use him. And honestly, Dick, do you know Greg Walker personally? That is a serious question.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 07:43 PM) Instead of a hall of drug abusers and cheats? Sure. The hall is a celebration of baseball. Would you rather have Clemens and his stats in the hall for future generations to see? here is what baseball values . . . Stats and a needle in your ass. America's game It's mostly a celebration of baseball statistics and achievement.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 05:38 PM) Interesting. I guess on my mind, what Peavy went through was entirely expected, and what Dunn went through was not. Peavy was going to have an on and off year while recovering, this is a repeated pattern with pitchers after major surgery. They miss a year, then first year back they are not good, then 2nd year they get back closer to form. Dunn, really, no one has any idea what is going on with him or why, and so I have stronger doubts about him. Rios, it is all about effort level and attitude, and I don't know how readily that can change. Either way, I guess we agree that it isn't likely that all three will be this bad again. I think the lack of effort on Rios' part will be change at least a little with a new manager. On your other points, I find it hard to disagree. You make good points, but I just see them working out the way I said QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 07:00 PM) As for the topic, No thank you.. If Albert stays in STL as everyone seems to think will happen.. 'Ramirez would be the #2 top hitter to go after My bet.. He ends up with LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Angels. They been throwing money down the drain the last several years.. he seems like a perfect fit for them. We agree, at last.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 03:04 PM) I think it is. Steinbrenner pushed for it so the Yankees could play the other Sox every other week. It truly sucks IMO. And as far as Milkman's rip of me ... what stats do you want for me to back up the fact we suck against teams in our division? I watch a lot of Royals games and they do perk up when they play the Sox. They throw at our batters, they steal bases, they act like badasses when they normally play like timid p*****s. We sleepwalk against divisional foes. I truly believe they want to kick Chicago's ass way more than we give a s*** about playing them in lousy towns like Cleveland and Detroit. Our players prolly hate going there to begin with and sleepwalk and get their asses kicked. Minnie and KC are nicer towns for them to drink in I'd guess. When they come to the Cell, these games should be sold as very important, but they are just dull ol divisional games. When the Bosox come to town or other teams it's a way bigger deal. We suck against the Central. My theory IMO is as good as any. This is buffoonery at its finest. So because Cleveland and Detroit are miserable cities, the Sox don't take going there seriously? And that's on the schedulers?! And in this vast conspiracy to ensure that the Yankees and Red Sox play each other more often, you know who should be the most pissed off? The f***ing Yankees and Red Sox. You know why? Because they are often the two best (or top few) teams in the league, and they have to play superior competition more regularly in order to make the playoffs. You know what that does? It makes their run at the postseason more difficult. So no, your theory isn't as good as any because it's f***ing stupid. It's almost as stupid a theory that Ozzie Guillen should be retained as manager because people will say hi to him at restaurants. It's not as good as any other theory. It's just your opinion, which you're entitled to, but your opinion is completely f***ing moronic.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) I agree with your conclusions, but I am not yet set on the idea that all three of Peavy, Dunn and Rios will be dead weight. In fact in Peavy's case, I suspect he gets back to being a solid starter, though probably not his Cy-like former self. Dunn and Rios I am not sure on, but I'd highly doubt they both are this bad again. Actually, I think it's the opposite. I expect Dunn and Rios to perform closer to their potential next season, contingent that it's under new management for Rios. I don't expect them to be exactly what they once were, but more "acceptable" than good. I fully expect Peavy to be a waste of space yet again.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 01:08 PM) Maybe they should open a Hall of Nice Guys who played Forever? Matt Stairs & Sean Casey, your plaques are ready. Yup.