Milkman delivers

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 1, 2011 -> 04:55 PM) Players should be booed when their play warrants it. Sorry, Thornton made his pitches and got unlucky and anyone who booed him is a baseball retard. And with regards to Beckham, who even knows how coachable he is! I know that sounds like a cop-out, but we as fans just don't know. Walker could be giving Beckham tips to hit 60+ homers a year and Beckham could be like "nope screw you." (for the record I'm not saying that's what is happening, my point rather is that as fans we don't know what really happens behind the scenes) With Rios, I think his toe is still bothering him. Sorry I don't look for scape goats in coaches. If firing the hitting coach actually worked, teams would do it when every slump happened. They don't. But I'm sure someone is making me list of the best hitting coaches ever. Yep, any day now. Don't get too attached to Walker. I'm fairly confident that he's not going to make it through the season.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 1, 2011 -> 04:49 PM) Look, yeah they're playing bad. But I just don't think this team will be bad all year. Further, I don't think the Indians are for real at all. Do you think the Twins are going to finish in last? Of course not. Do you really think Kansas City is a second place team? A correction is coming. I'm able to wait patiently because I know it's a damn baseball season. I WANT them to play better, yeah. But it's a bad stretch. The series with the Twins coming up will be interesting for sure. OK, first of all, you're dismissing the Tigers. You didn't even mention them. I made a post about this earlier today. People keep writing them right off. Secondly, how much patience are we supposed to have? The Sox now have to play .600 baseball for the rest of the season to reach 90 wins. Do you seriously think they have that in them? I don't. A week or two of more bad play, and they'll have to play .600 ball just to reach 85 wins. There is no time for patience at all.

QUOTE (Tex @ May 1, 2011 -> 04:44 PM) You are correct, it is impossible to know if someone would be 25% better. So, I would rather ride it out with Ozzie than gamble on someone else. Hell, it could be worse. I don't know how to respond.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 1, 2011 -> 04:38 PM) How about stress fundamentals, and then bench players who aren't showing solid fundamentals (ie: Rios and Pierzynski). I can't remember the last time Ozzie benched someone for lackidasical play. These guys have never seen someone held accountable, so there's no pressure on them to shape up. As for making team better, it would be nice if Ozzie had an idea about how to use his players. Not letting Dunn face the sinker ball with bases loaded for the struggling Rios was just weak. I want a real hardass manager. The kind of guy who will enforce the way he wants things done. Somebody who will bench even a veteran and, say, sit Konerko the day after he doesn't hustle down the line on a groundout as he never does, etc.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 1, 2011 -> 04:49 PM) They really are. The last straw for me was Konerko getting picked off at first by the catcher when he had a 2 foot leadoff. We can only hope. The day Ozzie is fired, I am going to celebrate as though it were my birthday. I don't care if it's a Tuesday, I'm going out and having a blast. My birthday is actually this month. That would be a great present.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 1, 2011 -> 04:43 PM) You only remember the situational stuff when they fail. Their numbers are pretty much in line with league averages. 2010: Above league averages (http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/year/2010) 2009: Slightly below (http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/year/2009) 2008: Above (http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/year/2008) 2010 With Runners on: Above Average (http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/year/2010/split/38) 2009: Below (http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/year/2009/split/38) 2008: Above (http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/year/2008/split/38) And besides, their a team built around the homerun. You've got me there in the literal sense, but only one of those years are they near the top. With the "above average" ones, they are still right in the middle of the pack at 12/13. I suppose that makes sense, because that's how they usually finish as a team. Slightly better than .500.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ May 1, 2011 -> 04:42 PM) Anything less than 35,000 for these games would be embarrassing. Sox fans need to be true fans....not fair weather fans. Whatever you say, chief. Just prepare to be embarrassed. Unless you're talking about 35,000 for the entire series, it's not happening.

QUOTE (Tex @ May 1, 2011 -> 04:36 PM) They need to sacrifice someone, and it's about time to reassign Walker. He'd be a scapegoat, it probably won't make a huge difference, but JR and or K-Dubya need to make a statement that this is unacceptable. I'm glad that people are finally getting this, but why has it taken so long? Honestly, people have been saying this same thing for years in regards to Walker. Is six years after a World Series title the exact cutoff point to be OK with firing somebody if only to make a statement?

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 1, 2011 -> 04:35 PM) Let me sum this thread up for everyone that hasn't read through it: Rabble Rabble this team isn't playing hard (but I can't prove it) rabble rabble. Question for the people that want Ozzie Fired: If he's the reason they're losing then why didn't they win the two games he was suspended? And further, what do you want him to do to make this team better? Let me sum up every post you've made for the last month: Anybody who is worried about this team is wrong. Open your eyes, man. A month is a long time. They didn't win because the guy who took his spot for those two games is just Ozzie Lite. Joey Cora is Ozzie Guillen if he didn't talk as much. What Ozzie can do to make this team better is to get himself fired.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 1, 2011 -> 04:33 PM) Funny how they always seem to hit, year after year. And funny how they hit 200 homeruns, year after year. But yes, Fire Greg Walker...because....slumps and stuff. Forget all of the situational stuff. As long as they hit a buttload of homers, he must be doing a great job.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 1, 2011 -> 04:31 PM) This post sucks. So you're saying Thornton should be booed because he made his pitches? Then you throw out the "competitive juices" nonsense where you offer no proof the White Sox are not playing their hardest. THEN you want to blame somebody else for Beckham not getting the job done? The finally you project Beckhams stats if someone else was the hitting coach, yet you cannot name a someone else that would do a better job. If hitting coaches mattered they'd go to the hall of fame. Hell if they mattered you could give me a list of the 5 best hitting coaches of all time. But neither is the case. Yes, he gave up more runs and somehow raised his terrible ERA. He has not pitched well at all this season. It's no longer just "early" in the season. We're an entire month into this thing.

There won't be anybody at those games, and justifiably so. I guess everybody is just insane and doesn't realize that 1/6 of the season is already in the books.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 1, 2011 -> 04:27 PM) Come on guys. Stop overreacting. It's only been 4+ weeks. Just one month. 1/6 of the season doesn't even matter that much.

QUOTE (gatnom @ May 1, 2011 -> 04:01 PM) Depends on your definition of successful, perhaps. In my opinion, we haven't been in recent years, and I am more than willing to try a different avenue. Besides, who do we even have on our roster that other teams want in order to do a white flag trade? Dunn and Danks? You don't consider consistent slightly-above-.500 performances to be a success?! The problem with a lot of the posters is that they measure the success of the team compared to how bad the team has been historically in their lifetimes. So a guy who is 60 thinks the recent Sox teams are successful because they're better than some of the dreadful teams they've seen since the '60s. We should be basing our success on how we finish compared to the rest of the league in that given year. So when we finish with 87 wins and second in the division, that isn't a successful season. It's a failure, but it's "better" than they might have finished in 1973. It's still a failure.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 1, 2011 -> 03:51 PM) So our player development sucks, our drafting sucks and I am supposed to be excited that our future will become player development and drafting. OK, that makes sense. We would theoretically be replacing the personnel responsible for the terrible development and drafting. I don't understand why you're trying to use this circular logic in order to prove that it's a stupid idea to rebuild.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 1, 2011 -> 03:19 PM) I've said it since January... This team will be melted down quicker than any team in recent history with the Sox if they don't turn it around. JR and the board are not going to sit on a money losing lemon for too long. If it gets to be June and we are still this bad, it will be the Kids Can Play II, which out to thrill everyone and sell out the stadium from the sounds of the talk on here. Yeah, take out your aggression with the team on the fans who are tired of the same old, crappy team.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 1, 2011 -> 03:06 PM) But you would pay to see a AAA team? Yes.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 1, 2011 -> 03:44 PM) It just seems like Ozzie's accepted the fact this team is awful. I think the entire team has given it a big "Ah, f*** it!"

QUOTE (fathom @ May 1, 2011 -> 02:50 PM) Starting pitching hasn't been all that good, as our ERAs are 3.06, 3.60, 4.46, 5.12, 5.86 (worst two are our top 2 starters supposedly) I was about to say the same thing. I'm not sure where you're getting those numbers, though. Humber - 3.06 Danks - 3.92 Floyd - 4.39 Buehrle - 5.12 Jackson - 5.86 Only one of those is definitely good. Danks is borderline good/decent. Floyd is completely average. Buehrle and Jackson are bad.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 1, 2011 -> 01:20 PM) Beckham's batted below .235 in 7 of his 12 months in the majors. For someone with medicore power, that's not very good. There's just very little to be optimistic about with this team at the moment and going forward. It's a depressing time to be a White Sox fan. I'm sure that statement will be met with a lot of bile from the older group of posters who "suffered through the ____ years", but it's truly a sad time for this team.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 1, 2011 -> 01:15 PM) I'm not arguing about the length of time, I'm arguing about the quality of those stretches. He's shown in two separate years (the only two he's played thus far), that he can play at an all star level for extended periods of time. That indicates this isn't a case of him being a AAAA player, or having some fatal flaw that wasn't exposed until he reached the major leagues, or even the league adjusting to him and him being unable to overcome that adjustment. This reeks of something else...and I don't think it has anything to do with Greg Walker or expectations that are too high. He's meeting those adjustments for long enough stretches of time to show that he is capable of what the expectations are. I don't think he's going to be a AAAA player, but I'm not sure that he's going to be this stud we've all been believing he'd be. In fact, I'm getting quite sure of that.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 1, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) Well, he put up an .877 OPS Post ASB last year. That's all-star caliber for an MI. He put up OPS's of over .900 in July and September of '09. Again, all star caliber for an MI. Like I said, good stretches. He hasn't had a great year yet, though. And with as bad as he's been so far, it probably won't happen this season either.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 1, 2011 -> 11:59 AM) Lol. I miss Jan, Feb, March when I was the board demon. It's no fun anymore. I think it's awesome. People are finally coming over to the dark side.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 1, 2011 -> 12:56 PM) Well, he has had sustained success in this league...I actually started replying earlier to Cangelosi's post in re: Walker ruining Gordo, but I couldn't really argue that, since he has put together stretches of 2-3 months where he's hit at an all-star level. That's not the league "adjusting" to his approach and exposing fatal flaws. It seems to me that this is more of a mental problem. He's not been some stud. He's had good stretches, as you said. I think Steve was right when he said that we probably need to reevaluate our projections for Beckham.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ May 1, 2011 -> 11:28 AM) Watched the game and I can't see how we can really fault Thornton and I have seen the same in at least a couple other games. He breaks bats and the other team gets some kind of absolute lucky bloops and he blows it. I was more upset with watching Dunn take a called third strike with the bases loaded. Beckham does lok lost to me but here is aguy with very limited minor league experience and still learning at the major league level. He is still hitting for a higher average than Dunn. We get line drives caught on what loks like it could be a double or triple, etc. Nothing is falling our way just yet. But, I have to believe it will. Better we are 9 games out now than in September I don't even know what to say to that. How about we try to never find ourselves 9 games out?