nvxplorer

QUOTE(toasty @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 08:45 PM) its not a broadcaster's place to second guess a manager... do you ever hear rooney and farmer do that? dont think so! ive no problem with brantley wondering why ozzie did what he did, but he's in no place to berate him that way. Very good point. As annoying and boring as Farmer can be sometimes, he NEVER badmouths anyone publically. Has Brantley ever managed? Any level? Had offers? Anyone know?

QUOTE(thelatinoheat_30 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 08:40 PM) what you said is true but i kinda think kw was forced into keeping him w/ his popularity. basically, ozzie's too popular(and relatively cheap) to not sign, esp. w/ the lack of fan base we already have. kw's mistake was signing ozzie from day 1, shoulda gone w/ a manager w/ experience. i almost would prefer manuel. maybe i would. I'll admit your speculation may be correct, but Manuel? That's where we part ways. (I realize you qualified your statement with "almost" and "maybe," but the mention of Manuel gives me nightmares.)

QUOTE(thelatinoheat_30 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 08:27 PM) First off, Brantley had a point. Even from last year, I knew Ozzie was one of the worst strategic managers in all of baseball. I hoped it'd get better w/ more experience but obviously not. Ozzie is lucky he didn't get ripped MORE for leaving buerhle in the 8th, no less the 9th. I don't care how little pitches he threw. Marte and Hermanson have been severely underused, leading to their recent subpar performances. Brantley is right on and should be commended. Also, today on ESPNews he(Brantley) said if he could pick any staff to have, he'd pick the twins, pen and starters. Also right there. He also managed to sneak in a comment, saying he might take the sox staff, but he jsut doesn't think the staff is being managed properly. I'll take it a step further. Ozzie cannot manage the TEAM properly, as shown by starting timo at first for the first time in 6 years just to give paul a day off, A DAY BEFORE AN OFF-DAY, that's just plain stupid. he coulda at least used the excuse of trying to keep timo sharp, but he wanted paul to relax. cost us 2 runs w/ that error. there should be more analyts criticizing ozzie's lack of smarts. before ozzie makes decisions based on his "gut feeling", he should use the bathroom to make sure he doesn't confuse these "gut feelings" w/ something else. p.s. i do agree w/ ozzie's using of walker cause he has to use em eventually and he was decent b4 it, so i do have some support for him. These are all valid points, but the truth is, Ozzie doesn't take his orders from the media. Criticism is part of the game. Brantley can say what he wants, but it's meaningless. Regardless of what we fans or the media think, Ozzie will manage the way he sees fit. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but by slamming Ozzie, we are also slamming KW. Kenny did not extend Ozzie's contract because he thought Ozzie was incompetent. I have to assume quite the opposite. Now, you can take it a step further and say KW is an idiot GM, but I have much more faith in him than that. Of course, time will tell.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 08:08 PM) NV I agree that ozzie has the right to respond in the way he sees fit. I don't agree with Ozzie on many things but he does have the right. I do think though that the man needs to think things through with the media. It may catch up to him. I do also agree its a non issue. Brantley is a nobody. Agreed. I've lost all respect for the media - all media - so I will generally side with whoever is being used/manipulated at any given moment. It would be nice if Ozzie were more skillful at this game (the media game, that is), but he's not the public relations manager, and if it takes him a few years to "wise up," that's fine by me. I do respect how Ozzie deflects the attention from his players. That is admirable. The players hold him in high regard, so it's obvious he's not an asshole. And that's all that really matters - what the players think of him. Screw the incompetent, bloodthirsty reporters. (I say incompetent because I've noticed so many stories that are factually incorrect. Nothing serious - stats and such - but how good is a writer if he can't even check his facts before publishing?)

Anyone can strain a muscle doing anything - regardless of the shape they're in. Sure, the chances of injury increase with age and lack of conditioning, but we as fans are in no position to diagnose Frank's injury from watching replays. The bottom line is, Frank was cleared by Hermy and the doctor before returning. He was examined, tested, and has been working out. There is no way anyone can predict this type of injury occurring.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 04:42 PM) Not at all. Let me try to articulate this, troll: You're a smarmy ass 24 year old who thinks he's brighter than everyone else. "Wow, I'm in grad school, aren't I smart?" What you've done since you've come here is try to be your big brother (penis envy, maybe?) and be Mr. Argument. Too bad this board doesn't offer lawyer pay. What exactly is the problem with your lack of interpersonal skills? Do you not have any at all? Are you this much of a colossal prick every time you go somewhere new? Or are your only friends the same type of cynical s*** stirrers who are frustrated with their lot in life? How many posters have you managed to piss off in the course of 3-4 days? Congratulations, you're up to about a dozen. Let me review ... hmmm, I think it was articulated rather well. You're a stain to this board. Go away. However, let me tell you this, if you continue to get in my face I'll be slinging it right back wise ass. That was clear as a bell, to me anyway. Hey, can I re-register under another name? I was thinking of "I hate I-HATE-CREDE." (Damn, I try not to be confrontational, but just seeing that guy's user name told me volumes about him. Pardon my outrage.)

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 11:09 AM) I guess I am not sure I agree with you but maybe for different reasons. Its brantleys job to second guess and same with phillips. I am not defending what they say just the ability to say it. Brantley was a major league pitcher for I think 14 seasons and spent sometime as a closer, Phillips was a GM, I think that gives them some good qualifications to second guess. What if it was DJ doing the same thing? Is it better because he is a homer? I think that managers need to be thicker skinned and Ozzie needs to learn that. Having the media, weather national, or local not on your side does not do the ballclub any good. All ozzie does at that point is become Dusty baker. ozzie should have talked it over with brantley for 10 damn minutes. Then they could walk away dissagreeing. If ozzie runs away or barks at everyone second guessing him, inclduing fans, than he is in for future trouble. Just one point about the bolded sentence. The same holds true for Ozzie. He has the right to respond in any manner he chooses. This whole discussion is a non-issue, as far as I'm concerned. As long as the Sox win, I couldn't care less what is said to or by the press.

QUOTE(Dam8610 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 12:29 AM) Who cares? Hell, Larry Brown, one of the most esteemed and respected coaches in the NBA, blew up at a reporter recently when asked about taking the FO job with the Cavs. Everybody is going to have their bad moments where they aren't going to take tough questions very well. Sometimes it seems like some people forget that coaches, managers, GMs, etc. are still human. Exactly. Coaches and managers aren't paid to be congenial team spokesmen. They have to assume that role occasionally, but I can sympathize with anyone who has to deal with media hounds on a regular basis. Put yourself in their place, and I'm sure you can imagine getting ticked off at all the constant bulls***. Case in point: I remember a post game interview a couple weeks ago, and the dumb s*** reporter asked Ozzie, "What are you going to do with Konerko?" That was it. What a dumb ass question. Ozzie just said, "I'm going to play him." What the hell did the reporter expect Ozzie to say? That was just a backhanded way of reminding Ozzie that PK was in a slump. Like Ozzie doesn't already know that.

If Shingo and Vizcaino can turn it around, the team is fine as it is. Otherwise, a reliever is desperately needed.

You're preaching to the choir with me, Wanne. It's fun to second guess managerial moves, but I don't pretend to know jack about why a manager does what he does. We have no idea why Perez was playing first. We have no idea why Walker was brought in. I've already made a case that the Walker move came from KW, not Ozzie. Who knows? As to the glove, trying to guess whether it was new or broken in is a fool's task.

QUOTE(knightni @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 11:47 PM) Ozzie has been having Marte pitch 2 innings per game quite often lately, and, Marte has by far, more appearances this year than any other RP on the Sox. One-third into the season: 26 G 19.2 IP Last year: 74 G 73.2 IP Multiply this year's numbers by three, and you'll see Marte is on track to pitch four more games but less innings than last year. He is not being overused.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 11:32 PM) I agree. He's very hard-headed. It's not like they're saying, "Ozzie what a stupid f***ing decision!" they are simply asking what he was thinking in that instance that made him put player X instead of player Y. I've usually defended Ozzie, but he does act like a total jackass to the media when he doesn't have to. I hate to see what happens if we start losing. He will no longer get the protection from the media he does. Plain and simple, Ozzie acts like a total jag when he doesn't have to. This was totally inexcusable on his part. Was Brantley doing anything other than his job? I remember him praising Ozzie and his style a couple of times too. Brantley was simply analyzing which is what ESPN hired him to do. I didn't agree with Ozzie's moves and wanted to hear why he made some of the decisions he made on Monday. Just because analyzers are doing their job and asking you questions, doesn't mean you have to act like an asshole. Fact is, Ozzie rather have a total jag moment instead of admitting he was wrong or being a bigger man in this case and accepting the apology. The media bears some responsibility as well. They already know about Ozzie, and I'm sure they deliberately try to get him worked up. Hell, Ozzie's mouth has been a top story for sports media this year. I don't know what the solution is. Ozzie seems to enjoy speaking, but he's not capable of doing so without stirring up s***. The best thing he could do would be to not play into their hands. Who knows? He and the team may laugh their asses off after he does an interview. Remember the early mantra? WE DON'T CARE. I'll stick with that attitude myself.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 11:11 PM) Problem is, these reporters are asking Ozzie the questions we want to hear. We want to know why he took out McCarthy. We want to know why he played Timo at 1b, pitched Walker, etc. I probably would have never started this thread if not for the way the Cubs and Dusty have acted the previous few seasons. Ozzie should be a media darling with his enthusiasm and our record. Since he's the one that tells our players to go out and get drunk....maybe he should just relax a little and not take comments so seriously. Yes, I understand, but we can't expect Ozzie to be the man we want him to be. He's who he is, and a diplomat he's not. Personally, I respect him more for being his own man than if he sucked up to the media. That would be phony, and I hate phonies. As far as explaining decisions goes, I take anything said with a grain of salt. From what I've seen already, Ozzie will tell the media what he thinks they want to hear regarding his decisions. As curious as we may be, the truth is, it's really none of our business. We're the fans, true, but just because we're the customers doesn't mean we are entitled to every little detail on how the team is run. Some things should remain in the clubhouse. That said, Ozzie has been reasonably forthcoming in explaining his moves. Whether he's been completely honest is another question. He doesn't need to be. The media doesn't need to dissect his every move, and if he has to fudge an answer now and then, so be it.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 11:20 PM) Ok, good point. I should say he does it more then any other manager I know of, mostly al teams since I see much more al games then nl. He's just ridiculous with the matchup game at time, the lefty-lefty thing is the right thing to do at times but definitely not all the time. Yes, Ozzie may seem to overuse the strategy at times, but he's certainly not the only manager to do so. I just think it's unfair to blame every pitfall on Ozzie's use of matchups. I'm sure he does it more than some, and I know he does it less than others (watch Felipe Alou manage a close game if you get a chance). Thanks for clearing it up, though. I've seen this assertion made by many, and it's to the point of becoming cliche, not to mention innaccurate.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 11:10 PM) Yes he is, he's in love with the matchup game more then any other manager in baseball. That strategy works sometimes but in a lot of instances it's the wrong thing to do. Just cause a pitcher is left handed doesn't mean he's going to get a left handed hitter out. On what do you base this assertion? Where I live, I get A's/Giants games, and Alou will use three pitchers in one inning based on the matchups. Dusty Baker does the same thing. How can you say Ozzie does it more than any other manager in baseball? I know you can't be following every game and every team.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 10:55 PM) Ya, I'm not going to read this whole thread, I'll just add my thoughts. Ozzie is in love with the damn lefty-lefty bulls*** to damn much. Lefty/lefty isn't bulls***. It's an age old tactic used by every manager, all the time. Ozzie isn't in "love" with the pitcher/batter stategy any more than any other manager.

I don't give two s***s how Ozzie handles the media. If reporters don't like how he answers questions, they can stop asking them. If anyone else doesn't like how he answers questions, they can stop reading them.

If the Sox have had problems with minor league talent, it can be attributed to low draft picks after finishing first or second every year but one (I believe) since 1993.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 10:24 PM) We have 8 losses so far from our bullpen. That's almost half of our losses. Yes, the bullpen has definite problems, but they do have 21 saves, leading the AL and second to St. Louis 23. Pretty amazing, actually, considering the poor performances lately.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 10:06 PM) Yes, I think Walker would have been brought in. Ozzie loves the lefty-lefty match-ups so much, he didn't even bring our closer in on Monday. BTW, I also agree that you seem to know a good amount of baseball, and just because I disagree with you, it doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion Thank you. You have my respect as well. I admit that my opinion is pure speculation. Who knows? Ozzie may be a dumb as a rock, but I doubt it. I try to ignore the press conferences and think outside that box. To be honest, I think what is said to the press, by anyone, is mostly bull anyway. No manager is going to divulge his true strategy for all the world to see. The lefty/lefty reason was what was given for bringing up Walker in the first place. That's a valid reason, but that is not the ONLY reason he was called up. Pitcher/batter matchups are as common as foul balls. Every manager does it - all the time. It's not something that makes Ozzie out of the ordinary. He may do it more than some, less than others. You and I certainly aren't qualified to make any comparisons - unless you have a connection with a statistician. I guarantee you, there's a lot more to today's decisions than what we realize. Whether those decisions were wise or foolish is open for debate, but it's much more complex than what we can determine from viewing the game.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 09:55 PM) He could of ran Walker out there for a few innings on Friday and Sunday and called it a year. Why bring this turd in with the game on the line. Unless what you're trying to determine is whether the player can pitch in game situations. If Walker had pitched against Texas and done well, they may have kept him and sent Shingo or Vizcaino down. Pitching in those situations is very different than when the game is on the line, however. Shingo and Vizcaino have track records. Walker does not. The only way to evaluate this guy is to pitch him. Every team brings up players from the minors who fail. It's not particular to the Sox. This happens everywhere, all the time. Eric Gagne did not become who he is by pitching mop up. He had to be tested at one point or another. The same holds true for everyone. Walker was tested, and he failed. It wasn't the first nor will it be the last time a call-up has failed to produce. That's baseball.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 09:53 PM) I would have hoped that this organization has learned that the Twins aren't going away. We can't afford to just "give up a game" because we're trying to see if some pitcher, who is nowhere near a main contributor on this team, can actually get a lefty batter out. I'd agree with you except for the fact that Shingo and Vizcaino can't get anyone out either. It's not that the Sox can or can't afford to give up a game. They had no choice. They had to pitch Walker to see what he could do. With all the close games, the Sox haven't had a chance to use him. They probably wanted to test him in non-critical situations, but those situations haven't existed. Think about it. If it was already decided that Walker would be the one going down, do you think they would have brought him in today? I doubt it. The decision had not yet been made, and they needed to pitch Walker in order to make that decision. If Shingo and/or Vizcaino had been effective, this would be a moot point, but I believe the Sox were hinging their decision on Walker's performance today.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 09:39 PM) But why bring him in after we just took the lead and he has not pitched much in two weeks? Makes no sense. Cotts pitch one damn inning yesterday if that asswipe is so fragile that he can't give us another inning then send his butt back to AAA as well. i don't like giving away games. Thats what happended tonight. we gave it away, and I blame OZzie. He did not play his best players nor did he put his s***ty players in a good position. that simple. I agree that it makes no sense from the standpoint of this game, but I don't think the outcome of this early season game was the motivation for using Walker. This was the last chance they had to see Walker pitch before El Duque comes back. The team obviously saw something in him, or they wouldn't have brought him up in the first place. What that something is, I don't know, but I don't work for the Sox farm system. I'm guessing that Walker was slated to pitch today regardless of the game situation. It's actually beneficial that he was put into a critical situation. If the Sox had been up or down by a bunch, that component of his evaluation would be missing. I see it as a big picture move, not a game move. If this were September in the same situation, I highly doubt Ozzie would have used Walker.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 09:23 PM) Fine, but why leave him in so long? Walker looked absolutely terrible out there. Why not pull him after two batters then? I would guess that they wanted to see if he could pitch himself out of it. To understand where I'm coming from, you have to remove yourself from the "win at all costs" mode. The team tries to win every game, of course, but sometimes decisions are made with more in mind. It's easy for us to second guess a decision made on the field, but a baseball season is more than plugging in this player and that. I'm not saying Ozzie is a superstar manager, but he's not as dumb as some make him out to be, either. We can't rely on press releases to understand managerial moves/motives. Walker was brought up for a reason. I'm still baffled that they sent Burke down for him, but they had a reason nonetheless. Walker blew one game on June 1st. I doubt the Sox will be using him in the future, but without actually playing the guy, there's no way to tell.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 09:09 PM) Then why in the living f*** is he pitching in a one run game in the 7th inning....and left in to face 5 batters? As I've already stated, and this is just speculation, the team has a decision to make. Someone has to go down. It's obvious that that person is either Shingo, Vizcaino or Walker. The fact Walker hasn't pitched in so long is precisely why he was used - so that he could be evaluated before the decision was made. If this is indeed what KW and Ozzie were doing, it was pre-determined that Walker would pitch at some point in today's game. From the standpoint of just today's game, it looks like Ozzie gave the win away, but I could understand if management was willing to risk losing the game in making an important decision. The only way to test the guy is to pitch him. I was upset at the decision as well. I want the Sox to win every game, but now that it's over, I can place myself in management's shoes and understand what they may have been doing. Sending Shingo or Vizcaino down to Charlotte could be the worst thing for them at this stage, but if Walker had proven himself in a critical situation today, they may have sent one of them down anyway.