IlliniKrush

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 27, 2013 -> 11:51 AM) It's largely a gimmick. I don't need WAR to tell me Miguel Cabrera is a great hitter. Well that couldn't be further from the truth. Tell that to a GM or a good manager like Joe Maddon who's all about the numbers, matchups, probabilities, etc. They aren't made to tell you who's an MVP type hitter, cmon now.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 27, 2013 -> 11:48 AM) I'm not getting the connection between the tagline and the FO actually using this as some sort of measurable? Obviously there are some psychological traits professional athletics target, but I'm not seeing any evidence that our FO actually targets one or another more than any other professional sports franchise...maybe I am missing something here though? No, obviously not saying FO uses TWTW or anything like that. The point is the the FO uses sabermetrics, especially Hahn, to make up the team, and you have your broadcaster talking about how silly and irrelevant it is, and the marketing staff waving that flag of TWTW. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. There's such a disconnect. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 27, 2013 -> 11:48 AM) But they are used as motivational tools, both for fans and players. I don't think the TWTW shirts do a lot of motivating for the players.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 27, 2013 -> 11:24 AM) Really need a sense of humor. I think this outfit should embrace #TWTW. After all Sabermetrics is largely a gimmick too. Hawk's interview was beyond stupid, I didn't find it funny. It's actually sad that a major league broadcaster is that ignorant. A gimmick? Uh, no. Gimmicks aren't used by front offices and managers to help determine the future of their franchise.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 11:48 PM) Hawk was fantastic in that debate. I loved how he could not give one damn about sabermetrics, but Kenny was still trying to "educate" him on it. Fantastic? Hardly. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 27, 2013 -> 07:13 AM) Not 3rd base. Again you willfully disregarded information that turned out to be correct just because you want to always blame Ventura. You wouldn't even consider it. said it was stupid. It is exactly the same thing you are slamming Hawk for doing. Its pretty funny you still can't see it. Also BP is obviously going to slam Hawk. They are in the sabermetric business. I don't think anyone here believes Hawk's total dismissal of sabermetrics is correct. Yes, throw would go to 2nd base there. They are slamming Hawk because Hawk is a buffoon. QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 27, 2013 -> 09:27 AM) I get your point, but honestly, what would you do if you were Brooks? Not embrace stupidity? Why does that have to turn into a rallying cry?

QUOTE (Knuckles @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 11:02 PM) In the MLB NOW video he has used Peavy and Paulie as examples. Yeah, except Gavin Floyd was more valuable last year than Jake Peavy because of the amount of W's he put up. Because you can't get the team W without the pitcher's W, per Hawk. Ergo, Floyd must have a higher/better will to win than Peavy.

QUOTE (farmteam @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 09:29 PM) I'll confess my inferiority. What's aces mean? It's not something most fans have heard about. They are (mainly) prospects pulled up at the end of the year, serve as extra guys during practices throughout the playoffs. Often times they'll be up for development/get the feel of the playoffs, culture of the team, etc. Most likely will never appear in a game, but if needed could be like the ace up the sleeve sort of thing. Many times they'll hold their own sort of 7 game (or modified) series and crown their own little champion. Coaches can even get in on the scrimmages to help fill the rosters.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) I don't think Ventura has ever had someone try to steal 3rd with Dunn at bat. Alex isn't known for his baseball acumen. If Rios was going, Konerko, as slow as he is, could have made second without a throw. It's tough to admit you saying something was stupid was wrong, but you were way off. If you don't know how WAR is calculated or any one of the other sabermetric numbers, I don't think you should consider yourself some knowledgable guy because you throw it around. In fact WAR is calculated in a couple different ways. BR and fangraphs have totally different numbers, and most say fangraphs is better, but a lot of the people who say it's better can't answer why. The poster who doesn't know how GDP is calculated but still trusts it, probably wouldn't go around saying he is an amateur economist. Ventura has had people steal with Dunn at bat, which has been covered on this board and makes no sense. If Konerko's going, you can guess where the throw is going to take the guaranteed out. Again, the whole point of this thing is Hawk is willfully refusing information that can help assess talent, chances to win, etc. It's beyond ignorant and stupid. The fact that the Sox are going to try to rally around it makes it worse. Plus, the Sox front office uses it to help them put together the team! It doesn't make sense on any level. But hey, let's trot out this TWTW s***, because that's what matters. Everyone take a few minutes and read this. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=20371

QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 03:24 PM) They need to make TWTW the team slogan for next year. Brooks Boyer would be stupid not to use it. Let's not embrace stupidity. QUOTE (Reddy @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 10:11 PM) f*** that they should just rebrand THIS year, it's early enough, and make an impact is terrible. Hawk is awesome. Nope.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 01:36 PM) What a pathetic loser. All he had to do was not fail in school for 2 years and he would have made millions. Instead he's a criminal with a growing rap sheet. It's disappointing the guy ever wore and Illinois uniform.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 01:03 PM) Jay Zawaski ‏@JayZawaski670 now Hawks recall : J Hayes, J Morin, B Pirri and B Smith, defensemen A Clendening, S Lalonde and S Montador, and goalie Henrik Karlsson. #aces Bonus points for anyone who understands what #aces means. Play all of them Saturday.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 12:42 PM) I would imagine the pool of interested buyers is definitely smaller. That's definitely a place I would love to lease but not buy. It would never feel like a home to me. I would think I was living in some sort of art gallery.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 12:59 PM) The situation in which Rios ran should have been ample proof Ventura didn't send him. I pointed that out and the fact the runner on first, who isn't being looked at at all or held on, didn't move. You said it was stupid. If you don't know how WAR is calculated, how can you conclude it is an accurate measure? Ventura has made weird moves before, so situation didn't matter. I could turn that around. The situation in which Rios ran should be ample proof Rios didn't go on his own. Wouldn't Rios understand the situation? Or is his TWTW not high enough? Konerko was on first, of course he wouldn't move as he'd be thrown out by about 40 feet. Doesn't do anything. Because someone can look at what it tells the WAR is of a particular player, compare it to other stats for that player and other players, and come to their own conclusion that it's pretty accurate at valuing players. If WAR wasn't an accurate measure of anything, it wouldn't be so prevalent and would be dismissed anyway.

QUOTE (southsidepride15 @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 12:30 PM) Stats are great, but like he said (and Harold had his back on this) even with the information being there for the manager there is still an instinct and a gut feeling for THAT moment. I think sabermetrics have thier place in the game without doubt, but I don't think that you can use sabermetrics for every situation of every game. Too many managers get away with that quote after the game. "Went on a gut feel." WTF does that even mean? Some sort of logic told you to do X instead of Y, explain that. Was it something you saw that week, that game, etc? Did the numbers tell you it was probably 50/50 anyway, so you used other evidence to help?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 12:35 PM) This is ironic considering when I told you it was likely Rios missed a sign or attempted to steal on his own the other day, and pointed out some evidence, you quickly dismissed it and referred to my assumptions as stupid. Then it comes out Rios went on his own. Seems you are the one who thinks he has all the answers. You don't necessarily have to play the game in the major leagues to be successful. That was proven. But I do think you have to be around it for a while. And experience is knowledge. A person working JP Morgan today who happened to be a saber-wizard in his spare time, would probably not be very successful if he were hired as a GM tomorrow. Hawk knows a heck of a lot more about intricacies of hitting and pitching than most guys here will ever know. He doesn't know what WAR is, but the funny thing is, most of the people who throw WAR around have zero idea how it's even calculated. Yet they are "knowlegable", and Hawk is an "embarrassment" You had no evidence to prove Rios went on his own or missed a sign. Until there's evidence to the contrary, it's assumed the manager made that move, because, well, that's what mangers do. If something happens on a field and 95% of the time the manger made it happen, and we have a situation in which something happened, what's more likely? 95>5? If Hawk knows so much about baseball, he should spend time talking about it on the air. All he does is talk about the good old days and yell catch-phrases. Try to teach people about the game. He doesn't, everything to him is just a mental mindset. TWTW. Give me a break. Yes, that wins games over all else. Theo Epstein didn't exactly have a background in baseball before he got into it. Who would you rather have running a team, a smart guy like him, or Hawk? Hawk may know intricacies but again, he ignores advanced metrics which help you understand the game better. He's only about the scouting angle - if that. He didn't even make that argument yesterday, he just talked about desire. Numbers don't lie. Saying Viciedo has the liveliest bat since Carlos Delgado (LOL) doesn't tell you how good he'll be or how good he is now. A deeper look into numbers will. But maybe he has a lot of TWTW, I don't know how to measure that. You don't have to know exactly how WAR is calculated as long as you know what it means and what it represents. That goes for any stat. I bet a lot of people couldn't tell me how slugging % is calculated, but they probably can look at some numbers of hitters and tell if they are below average, average, great, etc.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 12:33 PM) Yeah, especially when you consider this is the ex's house... House Doesn't have enough shoe storage

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 11:55 AM) Sure long is a great athlete, but I think he started 4 games for Oregon last year? Not exactly what you are looking for in your first round pick. He may turn out to be a HOF, its just right now, extremely risky. He's a project, that's for sure. Basically the 2nd straight year of doing that.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 12:05 PM) Looking around the web on various sites and boards, everyone seems to know who Hawk is. Not related to this incident but just in general. I find it odd because I can't name very many team announcers at all. I don't find him to be an embarassment though. I like him and appreciate the attention he brings us that we otherwise usually lack. Your last two sentences could have also described Ozzie Guillen. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 12:11 PM) It seems people here seem to be embarrassed by Hawk's views. I don't understand why. I guess it's just part of the gig of being a White Sox fan. Funny thing is, Hawk knows more about the game than probably 99% or more of the people he's "embarrassing". The Sox certainly were not embarrassed, or they wouldn't have let him go on TV. Doubtful at best. Playing the game doesn't equal knowing the game better, it's such a pointless card to play. What is it, 2-3 GMs right now actually played the game at the MLB level? He thinks he knows the game so well and has it all figured out, that's why he ignores all these advanced metrics. Those metrics help people understand the game better than him. He's outright refusing to learn more and gather more accurate information.

QUOTE (He_Gawn @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 09:26 AM) Lol, shame on Crean for having a clue about his scholarship situation. Then he loses two of his most experienced guards to transfer. Leaving only a few left on the team. Especially while Groce gets rid of Webers deadweight so he can continue to recruit, right? LOL. Guys transferring when a new coach comes in, that's never happened in the history of college basketball.

QUOTE (Jake @ Apr 26, 2013 -> 01:07 AM) Hawk has a player/coach mindset. Advanced stats don't always make it easier to coach a player, you can get important marginal gains with BS like increasing TWTW (btw, if you don't think an increase in TWTW doesn't have something to do with Rios's improvement, you're wrong). There are also mechanical/technical adjustments, improved training, etc. that won't be quantifiable or especially predictable. Sabermetrics are really good at explaining what has already happened. Sabermetrics can tell us that Adam Dunn was really valuable even though he struck out a lot and hit a lot of home runs. They may have told us he was trending towards more strikeouts. Unfortunately, Dunn's TWTW or something like that caused an amazingly precipitous downfall. Sabermetrics tell us that Gordon was probably unlucky last year and with neutral luck we should expect a somewhat better year this year. We'll see how accurate that is. There is absolutely a tremendous balance to be achieved between quantitative considerations and qualitative. We are certainly getting better at quantifying things, though. Sabermetrics are also really good at predicting what is likely to happen, which is a big reason they are valuable. Please don't confuse TWTW with actual scouting or mechanical adjustments, they are not one in the same.

Hawk definitely still uses a typewriter.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Apr 25, 2013 -> 11:28 PM) That was painful. His new stat, TWTW, LOL. He is channeling his inner Ron Santo these days. Facts, stats f*** that. Its some will of the force causing wins. The numbers on the back of the baseball card are only appreciated if they were on the card back in 1967. Anyone who thinks Ron Santo was bad at his job has to realize Hawk is just as bad, right?

First of all I'd rather hang myself than watch any big game in Wrigleyville. Bars filled with frat guys doesn't make it a good sports bar. Houndstooth is all about country night, not sure one sorority girl there could tell me anything about Bear Bryant.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-dad...52043--nhl.html And on the other hand you have Derrick Rose nursing and refusing to play.

QUOTE (Knuckles @ Apr 25, 2013 -> 11:05 PM) Really? I thought it was hilarious, I'd sport a tshirt like that because I think it's funny. The problem is you'll have Hawk lovers purchasing it, so there's no way to tell you think it's funny.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 25, 2013 -> 07:58 PM) Meanwhile, the Sports Authority by me continues to sell Carlos Quentin jerseys SPECIAL SALE PRICE!