heirdog

QUOTE(heirdog @ Dec 15, 2005 -> 04:17 PM) Chicago gets: Eric Chavez (Oakland), Justin Duchscherer (Oakland) Oakland gets: Jon Garland (CWS), Justin Germano (Cincy), Austin Kearns (Cincy) Cincy gets: Joe Crede (CWS), mid-level prospects (Oakland) I take that over Blalock, Wilkerson and a 'spect. I wasn't on the board at the time of EricChaveztalk.com so I want to get my taste now

Chicago gets: Eric Chavez (Oakland), Justin Duchscherer (Oakland) Oakland gets: Jon Garland (CWS), Justin Germano (Cincy), Austin Kearns (Cincy) Cincy gets: Joe Crede (CWS), mid-level prospects (Oakland) I take that over Blalock, Wilkerson and a 'spect.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 15, 2005 -> 02:40 PM) Joel Skinner Hit .340 in '85 in limited at-bats...Fisk's Widger! Salome Barojas

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Dec 15, 2005 -> 02:49 PM) Two Danks and Jenks makes for a-lot of K's. Isn't Jordan Danks (the one we drafted this past year) a center fielder? If so, I hope it doesn't make "for a lot of Ks."

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 15, 2005 -> 04:36 AM) I think that's a fair assessment. The extra $1.5 million mentioned later in the thread comes from increased revenue as a result of the Lee trade. Its really a stretch to stretch trades out like this. But if that is a fair assessment, then Harold Baines netted us Sammy Sosa and Wilson Alvarez in 1989. Sosa then netted us George Bell in 1992 and Alvarez netted us Mike Caruso, Keith Foulke, Bobby Howry, Lorenzo Barcelo, Brian Simmons, amongst others in 1997. Mike Caruso's demise allowed us to have "Kalapse" on this board so in some form, Harold Baines got us Kalapse from Sox Talk.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 05:09 PM) Samething for Vazquez IIRC. I am pretty sure it was not the same as Arizona got Vasquez, Shawn Green and some prospects for RJ from Yankees and Dodgers in the 3-way. I don't think RJ and JV had the same value straight up.

QUOTE(captain video @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 05:02 PM) OK.......call me crazy.....but with all the good moves Kenny keeps making, I'm getting a bit delirious........the Rangers need pitching.....how about Uribe and Garland to Texas for Mike Young and a reliever. He'd be a far better hitter from the 2 hole! And I like that .380+ OBP Crazy, that sounds like a good deal but I don't think the Rangers would go for it unless Garland first agrees to an extension. I would not want to give up my second best player (Texeira #1) for a year rental, especially right now when I don't know that I will be contending next year.

QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:48 PM) i actually think its a bad idea to have your 1-3 hitters ALL left-handed Ummm...bat Kong 3rd and move Thome to 4th. It makes sense to have two left handed batters 1 and 2 since the first guy is the speed guy (Pods) that needs to get on base any way possible and lefties are closer to first and can drag bunt, etc. The second guy also needs to hit behind the runner many times and instead of having to take it the opposite way, he can pull it to do so and again is closer to 1st to utilize speed to get on.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 03:34 PM) I didn't say both, rather one or the other. Oh. The "he could also want a guy like Anderson" threw me off as if you meant to say "he could also want a guy like Anderson added into the deal." Yea, straight up would be interesting and if they sweetened the pot with a middle reliever, it might be doable but I like the upside of Anderson (who could help us in '06 as well) over Kotsay.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 03:18 PM) It probably has to end somewhere. In 5 years we will have basically traded Carlos Lee for our entire team + spects. Agreed. And then since you are taking the initial money we saved and used on other players, you have to take the opposite this time as it will cost us an additional $1.5 million to get Vasquez (+ loss of Chris Young not accounted for), which could have been used to sign a LOOGY or something.

Seeing the offers that the Marlins were getting for or asking for AJ Burnett this past season at the trading deadline, I think Garland could net us a lot (i.e. centerpiece in a Tejada deal or young stud pitching prospects). So while I was initially in favor of Kotsay and Duscherer or Calero for Garland, I think we should get more. Also, I don't know that Anderson can't be just as good defensively as Kotsay with a stronger arm. He looked good in the few games at the end of last year and he has a great work ethic to get better. His upside is much better and he looks major league ready. Keep Anderson at CF and use Garland to replenish the pitching or get a stud, impact player.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 03:02 PM) Mark Kotsay and Duerscherer or Kiki Calero would make sense, but I don't know if the A's would want Garland (although Beane has never had a problem taking guys with a year left on there contracts). Especially cause over the long run he'd be saving cash. He could also want a guy like Brian Anderson. Then he can kiss Kenny's ass (well actually he may like that so no he can't). Why would we give up Brian Anderson and one of our 4 horsemen for essentially Aaron Rowand (slightly better offense, slightly worse defense and more expensive) and a middle reliever? Garland has to net us more and I hope its either part of a blockbuster (Tejada) or some stud prospects (catcher, pitcher, infield). I liked the idea initially of getting Kotsay and Duscherer or Calero for Garland but I think Garland can get us more (stud prospect) and certainly not cost us our #1 prospect (Anderson) as well.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:55 PM) The real question is, who the f*** is Eric Kotsay? This is the second time I've butchered his name. Actually when I first read your post, it didn't really register because it flows and sounds like it should be his name. Then I was like 'Who the f*** is Eric Kotsay?" I think its all the rhyming last names with that first name...Eric Daze...Eric Gagne...Eric Kotsay.

I was thinking that Jason Duschere guy, but Kiki Calero is good too, as a replacement for Viz.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:50 PM) Eric Kotsay has a fulll no trade clause. '06 - $7M '07 - $8M '08 - $7M But does Mark Kotsay have one?

Solid player, reasonable long-term deal just signed...why would Oakland do this? Billy Beane's infatuation with Jon Garland? You add Duschere (sp?) and you got a deal from the White Sox perspective.

KW: "They will know when it's time to get serious." Translation: They will know when its time to pack their bags. KW: "By the way, it's probably time for them to get serious." Translation: Its probably time for one of them [Garland] to pack his bags. Regarding Garland, we patiently put up with 5 inconsistent seasons to finally get a good one. And I would argue, it too was inconsistent as he came out on fire and finished his normal 0.500 in the second half....luckily he picked it back up in his 2...yes 2...post-season starts, although he was magnificent. Now, I understand his point in getting the best "fair" deal but its nice to have some leverage with 6 potentially solid starters (including BMac). So if BMac is as good as he has looked, we won't miss Garland in the rotation as Vasquez is a more than adequate replacement. And safe to say, Garland will be gone next year and we will try to sign Zito, Mulder or one of the many available if needed. Now, with all that equal, would you rather use Garland to upgrade to Tejada by using Uribe and a couple prospects or get '07 edition Gio Gonzalez and '07 edition Tyler Lumsden in the draft. I think Tejada by a landslide.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:53 AM) It is ironic that you went from saying that starting in the pen would hinder Bmacs development, straight to talking about Buehrle as the number one starter. For those who do not remember, MB got broke into the Sox, out of the bullpen as a long reliever... It seemed to workout OK for him. Buehrle is an anomoly. You don't normally take young pitchers that have shown to be ready in the majors in the few starts they have gotten and throw them in the bullpen. Then next year when Contreras/ Garland leave, you try to plug the guy back into the rotation after he is used to pitching a couple innings every so often (maybe 75 total innings) and ask him to go out and pitch 200 innings. You do that for either untested players (Buehrle) or players that have struggled as starters (Cotts).

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:35 AM) Levine is full of s***. Pretty simple, no way in hell this happens The O's have always known to covet big name players and overpay for them so maybe they would be interested in Garland instead of BMac. Garland is still very young (27?) so its not like they can't rebuild with him. Which prospects???? Having Tejada hitting out of the 3, 4 or 5 hole with Thome or Konerko would be unbelievable. But again we are becoming the recent Sox teams with station to station baserunners and power in the middle. Juan Uribe was great for us and it would suck to lose him but you're talking about Tejada here...this guys a stud.

BMac is a starter and a major-league ready 5th starter now. There is no way we move him to the pen for a season and hinder his progress. He is plugged in as your 5th starter with Buerhle at 1, Garcia at 2, either Garland or Contreras at 3, and Vasquez at 4. Either Garland or Contreras are moved for prospects to replenish the system, a middle-reliever or LOOGY, and possibly a low-priced veteran OF. I liked the Thome move, signing Konerko was a must and trading Marte for a super-utility player was a needed so that prepared us for next year. I think KW is now looking at preparing us to 3-peat but I want to be careful that we don't change up so much that we lose our edge next year. I hate seeing Chris Young go but hopefully Garland or Contreras will net us some young stud prospects in the infield, at catcher or pitching as I think Guillen, Wilder and KW are sold on Anderson, Owens and evetually Sweeney (and maybe Borchard ) in the OF.

QUOTE(rowand's rowdies @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 02:33 PM) You dont think they would like willie, rogowski, baj, and munoz for crawford? here is why i would get rid of a lot of talent for him. No, that won't be enough. And where exactly is the talent that you are giving up? It won't happen but if we were to package minor leaguers for Crawford, then you have to think it would include Fields, better prospect pitchers (Broadway, Lumsden or Liotta) and either Anderson/Young/Owens (even if Tampa has a glut of OFs).

I see Anderson locking down the CF spot during Spring Training and as someone said previously, I don't want to see Owens waste away on the bench as the 4th OF. He was raw when he was drafted and is making steady progress. What he needs most is regular at-bats to continue to work out the kinks so that he can take over for Pods in 2007 and we can utilize the money savings on re-tooling the pitching staff (i.e. re-signing Garland, Contreras , a FA and/or re-working Buerhle's deal). Owens should get the call-up in September to see if he is ready to take on the role if we were to let Pods go due to age/ loss of speed/ big contract, etc. Hopefully by then, Young is ready and can take over center with Anderson moving to right if we can't re-sign Dye or determine he is expendable. We can also keep Dye and/or Pods if we think Owens is no better than a 4th OF after another season in the minors, a Sept call-up and ST. With that said, Borchard should be the 4th OF in my opinion this year. I hope he has turned the corner and gets a good long look in ST. He can be the switch-hitting bopper off the bench for those 1-run down no one on and 2-out rally starters in the 9th. If he strikes out, okay we take the loss but if he connects....brand new ball-game. He came in with way too many expectations so if he settles in as a 4th OF with no pressure, its almost the same as a change of scenery that is mentioned so many times. Give the guy a real shot with no pressure (kind of like Garland as the 5th starter...he really excelled with no pressure and then eventually came up big in pressure situations).

I'm gonna place some advance orders for the Chris Young jersey. When Baines left the first time, I didn't have to wait long to latch on to Big Hurt. Now, I am just biding my time until Young hits the majors....c'mon Chris, make it 2006! Buerhle has a great attitude and I'm a huge fan but its hard for me to make a pitcher my favorite since he's only on every 5 games. Who do I look to between his starts?

QUOTE(Randar68 @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 04:17 PM) Liefer???? LOL! That guy was marginal from day 1. Wells crapped his pants regularly in the majors prior to being traded. At one time some considered Wells and Rauch as "Can't Miss", but Liefer was never in that picture. On that entire list, when they were actually traded, only really Reed and Cameron were considered "Can't Miss". Then I guess Liefer was accidentally picked in the first round since he was marginal from Day 1. I was going to include Reed in the can't miss list but he hasn't necessarily "missed" yet since one season may not be enough to judge. So Randar, do you consider Gio or Haigwood as "can't miss?"

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 03:15 PM) w00t, Tim Hummel's back. Where's he gonna play?