southsider2k5

Pitchers struggle every year, sometimes even really good ones. How quickly do we quit on each pitcher? Dylan Cease still has yet to pitch an entire season's worth of games. Lucas Giolito was a complete failure after his first year. Were you trading him away for a pitcher with one year of control? Greg Maddux's first year and a half in MLB were Cease-esque. Randy Johnson didn't start to get it until 26, but was still leading the world in walks at ages 26-28. Carlos Carrasco struggled in parts of 4 different major league seasons before breaking out at age 27. Trevor Bauer didn't put up an ERA+ of over 100 until his 3rd full season in the majors, plus two more partial ones. Lance Lynn himself is two seasons removed from an 84 ERA+ season with his career world BB/9 stat. I could go on and on here, but hopefully the point is clear by now.

So what you are saying is that you would have released Lucas Giolito after 2018?

Good to know that players can never grow and change, and will always be the same in perpetuity. I wonder why we had management changes if nothing else was going to change and only trades and free agency can save us?

Yes. The longer term arriving crowd is very important for this to be a Cubs type of rebuild, or a Dodgers/Yankees type of one where this isn't like a 3-5 year thing, but a long term thing for the White Sox. This franchise HAS to learn how to produce its own prospects a high rate.

With the pitching coach change, I would like to see this group given at least one new year for sure.

Or, I could try to make my point with the team I do like.

Doesn't Leury have an option?

Pretty sure it doesn't work like that during this time period. This system is in place. A deal has to fit the perimeters of the arbitration system, otherwise you don't tender them a contract.

Not going to happen, and that is the point.

That is incredibly low. You are probably looking for something like 70 million just for the last three years of that deal. You need a number like $25 million (or more) for those two free agency years. Lucas is probably at least a $30 million per year pitcher on the open market. He is probably something like a 6/12/20 for his arb years, plus 30 per if he goes year to year. That's almost 90 million dollars. Maybe you get by with 5/10/17.5 and 25/25 an a 30 option for year 6?

I said it last year, and will say it again this year. The Sox are not really a World Champion team as of now. Even a Bauer and Springer type set of additions doesn't put them into the elite level. I think they are probably a playoff team, but there is a clear separation between them and say the Dodgers.h That isn't to say they couldn't win if a lot of things break their way, but they definitely aren't in the stage where they are at their peak. With so many kids on the roster still learning on the job, it feels like 22 or 23 is when you get into more of a sense of urgency.

It covers one season, and costs you some amount of capital that can be helping you in years 2-6 of this run. If I am trading those kinds of guys, I want a difference maker that will be around.

Lance Lynn's arm could also fall off tomorrow if you want to be pedantic about it.

When you compare him to the Cease/Kopech/Crochet segment of the world, he does not stack up. But he definitely has more "pitchability" than those guys combined have. Dunning screams 15 year major leaguer to me.

So you waste pieces that could help you in the heart of this run, for a guy who will be gone in a year. Nah.

What is interesting is how quickly teams are targeting the 2nd and 3rd tier guys. Usually they are the last ones off of the board.

Illinois 5th

Strange, right.

Forget QB, the Bears need an O line before anything else. Theirs is trash.

Or, and maybe this is crazy, people can use their better judgment to decide how much validity they want to assign to a particular rumor or twitter personally...

This is not the problem. The problem is their debt load they are being forced to carry as a part of their deal with TribCo.

100% Carlos Rodon will have multiple major league offers for next year. If you think differently you vastly underestimate how hard it is to find major league pitching. Teams will absolutely be willing to throw a couple of million to bet on a Rodon rebound. It is the kind of thing the Sox will be doing for depth in this rotation with other pitchers.