southsider2k5

QUOTE (Brian @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 10:15 AM) Was the most popular thread.... http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...amp;pid=1818385 Mark Buehrle is not an ace is right up there for me along with the Ronald McDonald thread, and a couple of others. But this is an all-time great.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 10:54 AM) Also LSU is still playing too, so the Kiel report can't really be correct. MLB office would not allow it, nor would NCAA. They may have, indirectly and under the table, agreed to parameters. That's what I was going off of with them being at the same school, I just assumed they must have lost... Oops.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 12:51 PM) I was sitting at the airport bar and my phone just started blowing up with these craziness. I totally get the Saad deal, he is more of a two way player and younger signed for longer. The Hjalmarsson day is pretty questionable, unless Murphy turns out to be a good player leaving the desert wasteland. It the Hammer deal freeing up money?

Wow, what a crazy day.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 09:42 AM) A half season of good production does not make him worth a massive extension. I'd ride him out of the cheap and see if he can keep this up. What is the rush anyways? The "cheap" ends this year. After this year he will be "league average" and then "full price" the year after.

QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 08:03 AM) It's hard for some because we're not all willing to dumb it down like you are. The game is complicated and these trades aren't made in a vacuum. Your inability to accept reality, that the Bulls wanted to rebuild and this was the best offer they had, is indicative of your lack of understanding, not our lack of understanding. It must be harder for some to realize that if this was the best offer you had, you walk away from it. It also must be hard to understand that you aren't really rebuilding if you are giving away not 1, but two picks in the same draft.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 10:19 AM) https://twitter.com/bldore/status/878252740782075905 Which means Skoug should be in the fold in the next 24-48 hours too.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 07:54 PM) Jake Peavy was pretty much on the decline by this time, and at the time they traded him, they were coming off the second straight month in which they had the worst record in baseball. Why the hell wouldn't they hand him right field? That still doesn't support any notion that he should have been offered an extension. The history you are referring to does not at all support the assertion you are trying to make. The White Sox have a history of offering extensions to players as early as possible. They have done it over and over and over again. Anderson, Sale, Jones, Santos, Quintana and so on. That history absolutely supports it. The White Sox value cost certainty for guys they see as cornerstones, and all you had to do was to listen to five seconds of a broadcast after they brought Garcia here to know what they thought of his potential. The rest is just revisionist history.

And that's why I didn't want this front office making a Butler trade.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 07:34 PM) I just don't think he showed anywhere near enough to justify that...I mean he wasn't "their" guy either. He wasn't their draft pick like Timmy, and many of their other early signings were starting pitchers who had shown years of good performance. Avi never really had more than a few months of good play at any give time. They traded Jake Peavy for him, and handed him RF right off of the bat.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 04:21 PM) Please elaborate at what point in Avi's previous White Sox career you would have broached extension discussions? After he got booed at SoxFest? They would have the first year when they got him, just like they do with all of the young players they want to build around.

Anyone else out there watching The Putin interviews by Oliver Stone?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 04:04 PM) That April before he got injured (2014) in Colorado was the only time his play warranted such a discussion. And?

QUOTE (turnin' two @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 04:05 PM) Well, even if they offered it "early on" the situation has certainly changed for Avi (and the Sox) since that point. Yes it has. Now Avi is two season away from free agency and hitting like an all-star. If you want to get him extended TODAY, you are going to have to do something to get his attention.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 03:36 PM) I have to say, I think your numbers are quite high above, and I am utterly lost as a result of your second paragraph. What makes you think he held out? When do you suppose an extension was offered him? Bottom line, the guy is guaranteed the remainder of his $3 million owed to him this year, and probably a solid $7-8 million next year through arb. Beyond that, he is guaranteed very little. Offering him $68 million or so over 6 years allows him to have generational money with another potential shot at FA in his age 32/33 season. For a guy that has basically been worse than replacement level his previous 3 seasons, I suspect that is more alluring than you are recognizing. The Sox love getting their core young guys locked into long term deals as early as possible. I would put the odds near 100% that the Sox talked to him about it very early on in his time here.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 03:18 PM) I don't understand why it matters whether this is pre-arb or not. Yes, he will get paid in arbitration, but typically, an arbitrator does not want to award a massive increase from previous years unless there is a steady history of performance backing it. Avi obviously does not have that history. Many people were upset that we paid Avi $3 million this season. Do you believe that if after this season, assuming he continues along some reasonable range of performance similar to where he has been over his last 450 PAs or so, we went to his reps and offered something in the way of Jose Abreu's contract, that he wouldn't accept that? I think it would be highly compelling, and would be a far better use of resources than to trade him for dimes on the dollar because we were concerned about the risk. Garcia will be a $10 million in arbitration this year if he anywhere close to keeps up this season. The arb system isn't as much about raises as it is comps. RF's who hit .340 and put up .900+ OPSs get paid big time, and this is year #2 of arb when those numbers start to explode. Next year the same sort of numbers will get him in the range of $15 million, maybe more, if he goes through the arb system. If Garcia has held out this long to be extended, it tells me that he thinks he can get paid in free agency. For what it would take to get his attention and give up free agency, I am not willing to go there.

QUOTE (turnin' two @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 03:07 PM) Fair enough, but isn't there a lot of space between extending him, and extending him for 100 million? At this stage, he is two seasons away from free agency. In order to get him to give up that free agency, you are going to have to make it worth his while. The time for cheap extensions is pre-arb, not two years from free agency. I am not sure how you structure a 3 or 4 year deal that is bargain enough for the White Sox, but big enough to make Garcia willing to give up free agency without a big guarantee of money. What are you taking? Something like 3/45? ($10-'18, $15-'19, $20-'20). I mean in that case, why wouldn't Abi just wait and look for a 5 or 6 year deal at the same rate or better on the open market?

QUOTE (turnin' two @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 02:58 PM) Do you think he has just been getting lucky? He certainly looks like a different player with a much better approach now than any other time in his career. I am not willing to put nine figures on the fact that this is the real Avi Garcia. I think there is a chance he can sustain it, but that is one helluva bet.

Still in rain delay theater.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 02:46 PM) Well, they are going to have pay players at some point. You can try and extend him this off season. In fact, he's the exact type of guy they should extend, a top talent that is coming into his prime years. I want no part of giving Avi Garcia a significant extension as of today.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 02:28 PM) The Sox will sign everyone in the top 10 rounds. Heck, they will sign everyone in the top 33 rounds or so. I'll predict this though. Sox are under overall slot on signed guys by like 140k right now. The guys left for pool purposes are Henzman, McClure and Skoug. Skoug will be over slot, though maybe not by a ton. McClure is at least slot, might be over. And I don't think Henzman will be a lot under. That means the team likely goes over pool into penalty phase 1, like they did in 2014. I bet you'll see that happen. I think they end up just under their bonus pool.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 02:08 PM) Skoug is signing. Sheets isn't impacting anything. Teams don't take guys in the top 10 rounds that aren't signing. What Sheets changed is that I thought they might actually save a bit of money on him, not take a $600k additional pool hit. What that means is that there will be no more high school kids signed. There just isn't going to be any money left. By the time the last three guys in the top 10 sign there will be around zero extra pool dollars left over.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 01:50 PM) Garcia just turned 26 years old. If he's not part of the rebuild, then they don't know what they are doing. Avi Garcia can be a free agent at the end of 2019. Period. The Sox just don't have any control there.

As bonus numbers have come in for Sheets, Abbott, Kincanon, and Yurchak, the White Sox are sitting at $179,500 ahead of their bonus poll allotment. Out of the top rounds 10, Henzmen, McClure, and Skoug are still playing in the College World Series and are not able to sign yet, but the rest of the top 10 is all signed. Outside of the top 10, Kincanon and Yurchak both got $150k bonuses (in rounds 11 and 12 respectively) are are counting an addition $25k towards the Sox bonus pool number.

This was a fun write up.