southsider2k5

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:23 PM) Neither were the Cubs getting to the NLCS so fast, coming back from 3-1 down in 2016 or Donald Trump winning. Nobody totally believed in those things happening until they actually did. And when we spent half a billion dollars to fill the holes that the rebuild won't, I might start to believe a little harder.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) Oh, come on you knew it would. This is the same reason trump and rauner won elections. People just wanted something different. I'm not saying it is right or wrong. But you had to know that once the direction changed, the board would go nuts. What I didn't expect was that now any talk that there might be the slightest flaw would be met with such religious fervor. In order to question anything, I apparently have to put forth my own entire theory of what I would do, even though it isn't really relevant to what has been done so far, and what to expect because of that in the future.

QUOTE (shakes @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:36 AM) Ok. So in 2018 would you rather try and be the 2014 Cubs team or see a repeat of the 2016 Sox team? Either way, you have likely the same chance at competing for the central title. This rebuild has hit cult-like proportions, and it has just begun.

QUOTE (shakes @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:29 AM) Cool. But so where the years when they were trying to win. I noticed you didn't address the fact you are complaining the Sox may win 70-75 in 2018 when in fact that is all they have been doing for the better part of a decade. I think they would win 70-75 the next 2-3 years if they were going for it. You know how I know that? Because that is the actual reality of the last four years. Nice twist there. I wasn't complaining. I was addressing the idea that they would be competitive in 2018. They won't. That is the reality here.

Basabe mentioned here. http://m.mlb.com/news/article/212224800/10...uccess-in-2017/

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:23 AM) Blake Tekotte. Forgot about him. By the way, all teams have filler. And the next few years will be loaded with players just like this.

QUOTE (shakes @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:18 AM) And the Sox have averaged 72 wins the last four years. Honestly, what is your point besides whining? If this rebuild would've started three years ago like it should have they could already be in that window of contention. Instead we got to try and count on players like Matt Latos, Jimmy Rollins, JB Shuck, Jacob Turner, Dioner Navarro, Matt Albers, Kyle Drabek, Gordon Beckham, Hector Noesi, Adam Laroche, John Danks, Jordan Danks, Scott Carroll, Gordon Beckham, Ronald Belisario, Andre Rienzo, Dylan Axelrod, Blake Tekotte's of the world to try and win. That was a fun time as a fan. My point was the same point I have made before, but apparently you missed. 2018 is not going to be a year spent in competition. Anyone who is expecting that, is not being very realistic.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:04 AM) For the love of... There is zero reason that only one conversation should be had on this site. None. That little speech doesn't change that.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:00 AM) I don't mind you expressing your opinion...but you've done that quite a bit at this point. We get it - you aren't happy with the returns and you're not looking forward to the next few lean years. Heck, I think you've even scared enough folks to result in them beating the same position player drum you're beating. But it's already getting old when you come into threads and deliberately throw water on everyone's enthusiasm just for the sake of making it abundantly clear of what your position on the matter is. Again, we get it - you don't like the returns - and that is your right. But eventually, if you aren't in the mood to attend the party, the appropriate thing to do is to go off and do something else, not try and convince the rest of us to stop enjoying ourselves. You are absolutely right about one thing...the next few years will likely be somewhat depressing. In light of that, allow us to have hope for the years to come after that, because that's really all we have anymore. If the discussion is being had, I see no reason not to participate.

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 51m51 minutes ago MLB Roundup. http://bit.ly/2hwo9A2 Why the White Sox are in a dominant position in the Jose Quintana trade talks. News/notes/links.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:53 AM) Bleacher Report NFL ‏@BR_NFL 14m14 minutes ago Patriots reportedly asking for 1st-and 4th-round pick in any trade discussions for QB Jimmy Garroppolo http://ble.ac/2iqW8X6 Bears? He would be better than any guy coming out this year right? No. After Matt Cassell, I really wonder if these guys are system QB's.

Bruce is still pushing the Nightgale angle. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/12/27/lev...-jose-quintana/

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:43 AM) Great. Go piss in someone else's cheerios, Mr. Sunshine. I never figured you as one who couldn't handle things you didn't want to see.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:48 AM) Why does that matter if we're not looking to compete the next two years anyway? That isn't the conversation that was being had.

QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:46 AM) Someone here is praying the rebuild fails so he can simply post he told us so. Trust me, I don't mind being wrong here. I'd love to see something positive happen before my kids leave for college.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:41 AM) Bregman started 0-32. Moncada only had 20 PAs. Sample sizes are your friend. That said, I don't think he is ML ready yet, but his sip of coffee should have no bearing on anything. When you are putting together a time line of when a team can compete, it does. I am not writing him off, I am saying the idea of when he will be a contributor shouldn't be pushed too far forward. Moncada got 200 ABs at AA, 0 at AAA and bombed at MLB. Bregman, in addition to being older, and having played in the US all of his life, started slow, but recovered to put up much better MLB numbers. Personally I believe you have to look at Bregman as being at least a year ahead of Moncada in terms of being able to really help an MLB team out. If you are going to use specific players as a reason for competing, I think you will be able to pencil in Bregman long ahead of Moncada, even if Yoan eventually passes up Bregman down the line.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:40 AM) Talk of 2018 is crazy Talk of 2019 is best case rebuild scenario, everything that could have gone right for the Sox does 2020 - 2023 if we are not competitive, the rebuild has been a failure Again, I find this pretty realistic.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:39 AM) Moncada was available, and I'd rather have him than Bregman anyway. After what we saw from his ML Debut, I don't think you could call him major league ready. While exciting, he still has some work to do before you can call him that.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:37 AM) I think you're probably right. You know what the difference is? Now we have hope. We get that you don't, but could you quit trying to crush ours? You can have whatever you want. I just don't see it as very realistic.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:35 AM) It does sound crazy now, but just wait. Crazier things have happened, and things change fast in the game today. If the Sox pull off one more "home run" style trade with Quintana and bring in MLB-ready prospects, I think you're underselling the 2018 team. I'm not predicting 90 wins or anything, but I think they could make a run at .500 pretty quick. In the modern playoff era, that is not far off from actually contending. The difference of course will be that it's a .500 team on the rise, not a .500 team of veterans maxing out and declining. If there is one thing that we have been taught in this off season is that the guys you are dreaming about aren't available. Realistically, who are you talking about?

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:31 AM) If they get a Torres/Rutherford package for Q? Yea it pushes things out a bit. But if they go the Pirates route and get more close to the majors guys 2018 could be competitive. Right now they really need a well rounded OFer because that's one the thing the system is very light on until you get down to like Winston-Salem. Of course the W-S OF will probably be Call-Basabe-Fisher, all three pretty legit prospects, but another guy closer to the majors could accelerate the return to competitive baseball. No one wants to trade those guys. We have chased guys who could help us in 2017 like Benitendi and Bregman, but their teams don't want to trade them. The further we dig into a rebuild, the most luck we need in terms of prospects turning out. The further away the guys we get are, the more chance at failure there is. Blake Rutherford just played in rookie ball this year. It is super optimistic to think of anything sooner than a September 2019 debut. Gleybar Torres finished this season at High A ball. Again, thinking optimistically this year that puts him on a AA this year, and AAA next year track. Mid season 2018 debut means everything went right for him.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:26 AM) So in two years we are already where we are now and on the up and up? Sounds good. Again, assuming the Sox find some actual position players to start slotting in at some point. Realistically, 2017 is a lost year. None of the players we are talking about will be on the opening day roster. They will all be in the minors. The front end of this group looks like it should start coming up mid season or later. Optimistically guys like Gio, Lopez and Moncada get a half a year on the major league roster. This season will be loaded with 4A and has been players playing everywhere. 2018 should be the first full season for a the front end of these guys. The rest of the guys are years away. The end of 2018 is super optimistic for guys like Basabe, Kopech, Dunning, and Collins. They are probably looking at 2019 to debut, and maybe start contributing. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see 2018 as the worst year of the rebuild, and not 2017.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:23 AM) Have to see what the Quintana trade brings, but for right now I expect the Sox to be good in 2018. Perhaps not playoff ready, but the rotation of Rodon-Giolito-Lopez plus the two most worthy suitors from the minors to that point (competition for spots is going to be nice) and the Moncada-Abreu-Anderson core that's brewing should lead to watchable if not good baseball. We will be looking at a 70 to 75 win team in 2018.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:13 AM) I'm right there with you I just think fans will need to be very patient with how long this rebuild will take. The earliest the Sox will be competitive will be 2019, likely 2020 before making a playoff push This is what I see as realistic on the optimistic side. If most things go right, we should be looking at 2020 to have a team that has a chance. Of course that is assuming the Sox actually fill in the blanks and find actual position players.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:02 AM) But you've enjoyed the last decade? More than I will enjoy the next few years for sure.