southsider2k5

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 09:22 AM) Developing talent isn't a waste of our time, it should be our entire purpose for the next few years. There is going to be a major contributor on our team in 2-3 years that we cannot plan on or have no idea about and it will be because we gave lots of chances to lots of different players. If Saladino can become a league average bat, then he is a multipositional player with plus defense at 2 out of 3 positions. That could be valuable. Tyler Saladino is not going to be a major contributor in two to three years.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 08:49 AM) It will be a prime consideration at the trade deadline in 2018 and going into the 2018-19 offeason. In all likelihood, it will be outfielders and/or a catcher. 3b is a good possibility as well. Not really, no. I don't buy for a second that our starting 3B on our next playoff team is currently in our system, unless you believe that Moncada is our 3B. Tyler Saldino is pretty much a waste of the franchises time at this point. Things have changed. We aren't looking to plug holes anymore. We are trying to rebuild the system from the ground up. If the answer to that is Tyler Saldino, this team is more f***ed than even I think it is.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 10:39 PM) So, let's turn this loose and make the case. Take a look at the 2015 and 2016 White Sox, and one thing I think they have almost criminally undervalued is creating average players from their own system. This failure has propagated through their decisions over and over and it is a key part of why they were such a failure. When you develop a couple of "decent" players, a couple of "average" players, what happens? You have the ability to put those guys onto your roster, play them regularly, and spend the big money elsewhere. Go to the World Series teams and you have plenty of examples just from this year - Naquin, Napoli, Chisenhall, Rajai Davis, Carlos Santana to some extent - these are guys who weren't paid a ton, but they were decent enough players. Similarly, with the Cubs - Hammel, David Ross, Coghlan, Szczur, every single one of those guys you would truthfully say "You would be looking to improve on them if you were going to be a playoff team". I totally buy that. But a true playoff team, IMO, has a handful of elite players and combines that with guys who are good enough, guys you would improve on if you could, but who are decent players and support your roster. Compare that to the White Sox over the last few years and I think the mistake becomes blatant. How many decent players have the White Sox spent huge amounts of money or talent to acquire? Melky Cabrera, Brett Lawrie, their 2016 catchers, Austin Jackson, Rollins, Bonifacio, LaRoche - they have put a huge amount of resources into trying to bring some of their positions up to decent. They've said "this position is terrible and if we bring it up to decent it's a big improvement" - that statement is right, but when you're spending a ton of resources to do that, it's a major issue. Counting Cabrera, Lawrie, Rollins, LaRoche, and Jackson, just for 2016, we're talking about $35 million, a 2015 3rd round pick, 2 pitchers traded for Lawrie, 2 players traded for Shields (one of whom was worth something), and even then the only reason why the back 40% of our starting rotation wasn't among the 5 worst in MLB was a guy given up for nothing by the Orioles. Conversely, how many times have we seen a surge from this team just by plugging in someone "decent" at a position? 2015 there was a surge when Saladino took over 3b, we also saw such things earlier with guys like Hudson and Youkilis taking over 3b for someone terrible, Trayce taking over CF, Garcia taking over RF in 2014 when he briefly hit. How much value did the White Sox get out of having Gonzalez last year? How much of a difference did one cheap, average player make? That was the difference between an average rotation and a bottom 5 of the league rotation. Basically, having a couple "average" players that we develop from our own system, guys who are average 1-2 WAR players who are paid MLB minimum, is seriously underrated by this organization. When we have those guys, we trade them for our big name additions like Frazier and Samardzija, then as a result we find ourselves having gaping holes at positions they could have filled and having to spend $10 million+ to fill those posiitons with guys who have a substantial probability of flopping. This is connected. Why did we have to spend so much on Lawrie - because we gave up on Semien. Why did we have to spend money on Jackson last year and wind up with Shuck as our starting CF? Because we gave up on Thompson. When you have a couple of average MLB players in your lineup, yes you would happily replace them with all stars, but you need a couple of those even when you have all stars. If you develop them on your own, this is doing you a favor. You yourself constantly point out that the White Sox won't be a player for big name FAs. Do you know why? Because we have $12 million invested in Cabrera, $12.5 million invested in LaRoche, $5 million in Jackson, $6 million in Latos and Rollins, $4 million in Lawrie, and that doesn't count the players given up to get them. Why don't we have $25 million to go after a top flight FA? Because we don't think average players developed from our own system are worth anything. You want to know why we couldn't go after Cespedes? There's the money. We're going to hopefully have some elite players from what we've traded . Hopefully we just acquired a few of them, especially in the rotation. But if you want to add an elite FA to them, you still need one other thing - you need to develop a handful of decent players on their own. If you can't do that, then you are going to wind up looking like the 2015-16 White Sox - top-heavy, with a couple of big name guys, but struggling to fill in a roster. The 2015/16 White Sox weren't an accident - it came out of this exact concept, that big names are better than filling out a roster. Compared to "getting a slightly better return for Todd Frazier", I contend that a single developed, average player under team control for 3 more years is far, far more important. It is not nearly as important as "getting an all star or two back for Quintana", we should never ever ever ever ever play Saladino in front of Moncada because developing those all stars is a far higher priority. But you give me a 2 WAR, quality defensive 3b sitting next to Anderson, and I think you have made a strong upgrade to this roster. It won't put us in the playoffs on its own...but you won't be able to play the FA market effectively if you undervalue this part, because you will be spending all your FA money making up for that failure, and that is the 2015/16 White Sox. This is totally thinking of the past 10 years. Now we are more worried about quantity, and Todd Frazier gives us a better chance at that than does Saladino. We aren't going to be worried about chasing players to fill holes on a immediate basis until next decade. By then Saladino will be long gone. The one thing that might still be around is the player we get for Frazier, because we aren't getting anything for Saladino.

QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 03:07 PM) Sounds like he has off court problems and attitude problems. Richmond flashbacks. I didn't see any of it, but if he is half as cocky off of the floor as he is on it, I could see it being true.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 03:12 PM) Because I want to know if Tyler Saladino can be a big league 3b and whether his body can last 150 games and I will not know that until Tyler Saladino is penciled in to play 150 games. If he can be adequate with the bat and a strong defender at 3b, then that is another position covered with an established big leaguer without having to give up anything of value to cover the position. The more positions we do that with, the fewer we will need to fill in 2018 and 2019 via free agency and the more funds we will have available to fill those remaining positions with guys who will make a major impact. But the only way I know whether or not Tyler Saladino can stay healthy and be a good enough big leaguer with strong defense is to play him there. Tyler turning into a 2 WAR player at 3b is far more valuable to me than slightly improving the return from Todd Frazier. There are 3b available next offseason and after 2018. I need to know whether my internal candidate, who has a legit chance of failing for several reasons, can be a decent player or not before I have to make those decisions. Plus, saving a portion of the >$10 million Todd Frazier will be paid this year won't be a bad thing either. When you go through those player value and draft pick value estimates, his salary is worth more than that draft pick. Realistically, even if Saladino can be a 3B, I think he would be the type of 3B that you would be looking to improve upon if you were going to be a playoff team. In terms of asset valuation, the odds of Todd Frazier being able to bring you back something are much higher than Tyler Saladino. Sure he may be able to start, but I don't see him as any sort of long term starter either.

QUOTE (striker @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 11:45 AM) I wonder if the A's could be a sleeper for Q. Barreto, Puk, Holmes and Chapman are all intriguing. They also have Larazito that could generate interest in a deal.

I know Illinois has an offer out to Verge, the PG from Thornton. My HS just played them in the Big Dipper title game and wow what a badass. He is a bit showy, but legit.

A new season of SHERLOCK kicks off on PBS tonight!!!

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 04:07 PM) From Nick Carfardo of the Boston Globe: https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2...R0lM/story.html So the Sox aren't getting even a decent prospect or two offered for Frazier. That isn't surprising to me at all./

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 12:33 PM) I don't think there was any chance at all both Benintendi and Moncada would have been in play no matter how well the Sox negotiated. I think we did about as well as we could have with Sale. Especially because the talk was that the teams were so far apart that there were no talks at the end of the trade deadline. I think talks would have gone somewhere if those two had both been offered, or at the very least that would have been the starting point this off season.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 08:47 PM) Which trade would you accept for Q? Do the other teams accept these deals? Q to the Yankees for Frazier, Rutherford, Kaplielian, and Sands Q to the Braves for Albies, Maitian, Soroka, and Toussaint Q to the Astros for Martes, Tucker, Fisher, and Stubbs Q to the Pirates for Glasnow, Bell, Diaz, and Escobar Yankees or Braves.

QUOTE (KagakuOtoko @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 05:09 PM) Well they all seem to be fellating Russia now, which is weird if you ask me. Trump is already proving he's the great uniter, I mean he is going to make Russia super friendly toward the US again. See that's the fun part. If it were a Republican in office, we'd hear non-stop about the two failed wars in Libya and Syria, along with reigniting the cold war with Russia.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 05:06 PM) Is it wrong that, despite knowing Sale is better, that Buehrle is my favorite pitcher of all time? (Only 25 years old so didn't see McDowell or others mentioned) Basically started getting into baseball around 99/2000 so I basically started from the beginning with Buehrle's career (and Paulie's for that matter). Favorite players aren't based on stats.

670 The Score ‏@670TheScore 36m36 minutes ago Report: Bulls coach Fred Hoiberg is on the hot seat. http://cbsloc.al/2imrm1W

Tracey Myers ‏@TramyersCSN 13m13 minutes ago Marian Hossa will join the #Blackhawks in St. Louis. Q hopeful he'll play in the #WinterClassic.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 02:14 PM) I just want to point out that raBBit was breaking things on this site, as a college sophomore home on winter break. Isn't Cotillo super young as well?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 12:45 PM) If you truly think you would rather have Quintana than Sale, be my guest. however, I think you may one of the few. There is a reason boston wanted Sale not Quintana even though Quintana had a more favorable contract. Even if all numbers were equal, the potential for one pitcher to be dominant on any given night is going to demand a premium over a guy who is consistently really good. The mere fact that Chris Sale is always a threat to go out and throw a no hitter with 18K's is worth something more than Q.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 01:27 PM) I agree with the Atlanta bit here. When I talked to Chris Cotillo, he mentioned that Atlanta was firmly in the Sale sweepstakes, but believed they are a better fit for Q. Ozzie Albies/Kevin Maitan headlined package with an upside arm or two intrigue anyone? That is a core that would have my interest.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 01:16 PM) First time I've seen names from the Yanks in talks for Q. https://elitesportsny.com/2016/12/30/despit...must-stick-plan That is an intriguing package. Severino could make or break that package.