southsider2k5

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 04:19 PM) None, but 2 playoffs in 16 seasons after inheriting a stocked farm and MLB team isn't exemplary results. That should show you how much a "stocked farm system" promises you as a MLB team.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 03:53 PM) True, but they really should have been in anyway, considering the absence of heavy hitters this year. Except it looks like plenty of teams are overspending anyway, even without the teams thought of as traditional spenders.

MLB Daily Dish ‏@mlbdailydish 1h1 hour ago The Indians might be without Michael Brantley for a significant amount of time http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2016/6/6/11871..._source=twitter …

Winston-Salem Dash @WSDashBaseball Congrats to Matt Cooper, who earned the Carolina League's Pitcher of the Week award for his great work last week! http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=2...80&sid=t580 …

MLB Trade Rumors ‏@mlbtraderumors 37m37 minutes ago Juan Lagares Diagnosed With Partially Torn Ligament In Thumb http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/06/juan...thumb-mets.html …

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 03:41 PM) Right on the money I didn't realize I had such an ally! Sox should have spent the Laroche savings on the international market. They are nowhere to be found. The reality is that the middle of March was way too late to do this for 2016. Those deals are being made a year in advance, if not more, for the kind of players you are wanted to make those deals with. Teams are already working on the class of 2017, not 2016, except for a very few cases.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 03:20 PM) This is the team you root for though. This is what they do. They are going for it. They are going for it next year. They aren't rebuilding. I wish they would spend $25-$30 million in the international market but they just don't do it. How did they deplete their system with this move? I'd argue that they could trade Shields in 2 months and acquire more than they gave up. I am looking at it as just what it was. Acquiring a middle of the rotation pitcher for a cheap price because he was available in a year where they think they could make the playoffs. It also doesn't really hamper them going forward. They are in at this point though and basically have no choice but to go for it. If Shields gets here and rebounds back to a near career normal level, his value will go up for sure assuming the Sox pass along the money from the Padres in a deal.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 03:09 PM) Josh Norris ‏@jnorris427 4m4 minutes ago Phillippe Aumont has announced his retirement. He went from being really good in the spring, to just awful at Charlotte. With a retirement and his awfulness, I wonder if he was hurt at all?

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 03:01 PM) I don't see Miguel as having the stuff to be a short-inning reliever. I usually look at the softer tossing starters as being guys who are not good relievers. I typically view relievers as guys who have that one plus plus type pitch but struggle having a plethora of pitches. Miguel clearly is a solid swing-men and maybe he can be more than that. I actually think he's better than Latos and they put the wrong guy in the pen, but given the Sox record with Latos and his stats, his contract (and why he signed here in the first place...i.e., the opportunity to start), as reasons why they put Miguel in the pen vs. Latos. Funny cause I think Latos in shorter stints actually has more of that "reliever" makeup. Gonzalez is going to be the long man, or the worst of the middle relievers.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 02:54 PM) They didn't give up anything of note. Tatis is a long shot to make the majors by 2020 and EJ was done here and had no value. They got a solid #3-#4 starter that eats innings and he costs around $10 million per season. That's what those guys cost. He's also an asset moving forward because of how much the Padres are playing. The trade was a no brainer. Complaining about it is in fact quite stupid. While left-handed a 33 year old JA Happ got 3 years at 36 million this off season.

For all of the PBS types out there, Genius with Steven Hawking has been a great series so far.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 02:20 PM) I wouldn't go so far as to say they are stupid. That is rude and ill informed. It's basically a move for this year and next year. It seems as though many moves the Sox have made have no future beyond 2017 and that's the whole point All have been patchwork moves giving up talented cost controlled youngsters who do have futures that will vary greatly but have a chance to be better. How have all these moves worked out the past few years ? Are the Sox any better now than they might be if they had just kept some of these kids ? Hard to know, but it's just seems as though the Sox are spinning their wheels the past few years while giving the fans nothing to look forward to . It is very fair to look at this as a free agent signing for 2017 and 2018, in addition to being a trade for 2016.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 01:39 PM) Yes, his ERA would be that, but his ERA was not indicative of how he had been pitching this year. I agree his stats are skewed, plus there is a difference between 7 innings and 3 running's and something less than that. The bold statement if he's good for 7 innings and 3 runs most outings, well, that is not something a huge list of pitchers can do. And his ERA benefited from pitching half his games @ PETCO. Agreed. A solid innings eating pitcher is not an easy thing to find. Getting a guy who will pull down 200 to 230 innings per year makes a big difference. Let me put it this way. If you get 210 innings out of Shields (30 starts x 7 IP average) versus 165 innings out of a guy like Gonzalez (30 x 5.5 IP average) that is a difference of 45 IP being pitched by your bullpen. Dan Jennings pitched 56 innings last season. Adding a guy like Shields is literally saving almost an entire season's worth of IP for a reliever in your bullpen.

QUOTE (MnSoxFan @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 01:37 PM) Under one transaction, the Padres signed him as a Pitcher. Maybe a typo. March 1, 2016 San Diego Padres signed free agent P Janigson Villalobos to a minor league contract I found that under http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?playe...tching/2016/ALL Yeah, he goes back and forth between being a C and a P. Weird.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 01:28 PM) If he can go 7 and give up 3, he's a #2/#3 on most teams, a #3 on a good team. Let me put it this way. 7 innings and 3 ER is an era of 3.86. Shields has been below a 3.86 era in every full season he has pitched since 2010. Shields had an era of just over 3 before the 10 run disaster where he was left out there to rot on the vine. In fact if Shields is pulled after he gave up 7 runs in 2 IP in that game, instead of being sent out again for the 3rd inning, his era for the season is sitting at 3.91, or almost exactly what 3 runs every 7 innings would average out to.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 01:18 PM) Per MLBtraderumors.com : The White Sox have signed free agent catcher Janigson Villalobos to a minor league contract, the team announced. Villalobos, 19, is a native of Venezuela. Anybody know anything about this kid ? Looks like he was on the Padres DSL team. Listed at 5' 9" 195 . That is a pretty little guy for a catcher.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) Yeah - I think it is absurd when people write off guys or don't acquire someone because of one game (unless an injury surfaced). Bad games are going to happen. That said, often times it is hard to seperate the emotion from the list. Barring injury or something similar, there is no good reason to drop pursuit of a guy based on one game.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 01:09 PM) Yeah - I knew Hostetler was from the Braves, for whatever reason I thought somewhere Rick spent some time in Atlanta before joining Chicago (remembered his prevent agency background). IIRC, Hahn sent personal letters to JR begging him to give him a chance to work for the Sox.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 12:53 PM) Hahnh grew up in the Braves organization, IIRC. I think Hahn is a strong tactician and a good GM, but I think the strategy he's been given and the plan of attack handed down by JR / KW (as well as the overall budget) has hamstrung them to for a lack of a better word, half ass contention. I think you are thinking of Hostetler.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 01:00 PM) That was definitely an issue. The rumored trade did come before the shaming, so that was probably done knowing he was gone. The only question would have been was there enough offered from other teams for him to move, or did the Padres owner know he was going to be a White Sox so he ripped him? I do agree, if they weren't trading him, that doesn't get said. I think if the White Sox hesitate, the Padres take the 2nd best offer.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 12:52 PM) The problem with acquiring a guy like Shields is if he does what he was acquired to do, be a 4th starter, it will be a disappointment to the majority of fans who expect him to be an ace. Personally, I stated before, I think Gonzalez/Latos were a little below Shields but not much. I would have waited, but that said, if Gonzalez helps out in the bullpen, and Shields does give you the extra inning over the guy he replaces, and puts up #4 starter numbers, the trade does make sense as long as, and Hahn verified this with Levine, they still have the resources for some offense, and maybe another arm in the bullpen. Shields now vs. he 2012 velocity, if it were the same, the Padres wouldn't be paying him more than the White Sox the next 2 1/2 years. He is not an ace, but the White Sox don't expect one. It could be a different tune with the majority of the fanbase. You probably wouldn't have gotten Shields then. After the Padres owner melted down on him publicly last week, a deal was going to happen ASAP.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 12:42 PM) Bottom line, I really don't think this deal was a very good use of resources. While I think our 4th / 5th starters, more specifically the 4th, needed to be upgraded (especially considering Rodon, like any extremely young pitcher, will have his up's and down's (just look at my preseason posts), I don't know that Shields is really a guy who provides such an upgrade (yes, name value is > than Gonzalez / Latos and we all know I am not a Latos fan) but this guy isn't a huge difference maker (at least hard to bet on him being that given advanced stats and declining velocity) and while Pads ate a ton of money on that contract, we used financial resources (knowing Reinsdorf has a budget) not just for this year, but the next two years, plus a guy like Tatis who has real potential (and obviously more likely he will be a bust, but still pretty short sited) and a guy like Johnson, who is a valuable piece towards any rebuilding team (as he's a guy who can work on his craft at the big league level and ultimately prove himself to be a reliable, cost controlled #4 / #5 (Johnson won't be an ace, we know that, but I'd bet on him having a good back of the rotation career on the cheap which is a real value). If we are going to use the resources, use them on difference makers. A lot of this goes back to the fact that we kind of half-assed it this off-season and never really put together the team needed to contend and it puts you in a tough "middle" ground where you aren't developing for the future as effective as you could and you aren't really contending. All this said, I am sure the Sox are going to make a full frontal effort to add another bat and another reliever. Seems they are hell bent on contending and I don't know how they can without doing those things. I also can't really figure out how they can give Ventura much more rope. Everyone knew it was a make or break year for him and now with that start and them using longer term resources on Shields, they are looking at this from the perspective of, they need to do this now, and well, if that is the case, than, you got to try everything possible and I'd have to think Ventura is out of if they can't turn it around soon. Good news is, of the guys they acquired, all still have quality trade value (Shields would probably have more suitors now than he did before....and we could clearly always move Frazier or Lawrie, etc, if need be). They are paying him $5 this year, and $10m the next two (yes I am assuming he doesn't opt out). Even if you say the Sox have only the LaRoche money to spend, that still leaves us $8 million to spend. If you take that an extrapolate that 8 million out knowing that the season is 1/3 over, that means we could still afford someone with a $12 million contract for this season. (12 million divided by 2/3 of season remaining = $8m left on deal). If you push that out to the 81 game mark, we could take on someone with a $16 million contract. Again, that is assuming that we have no more resources other than the LaRoche money, and that the next deal we make we get no financial relief from the trading team. Pulling a past name out of my ass, Carlos Gonzalez has a $17 million deal for this season. Jay Bruce has a $12.5 million price tag for 2016.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 08:24 PM) I don't care for the optics of the Sox hiring the Cubs leftovers as manager. At the same time, there would be an interesting story to tell if the Sox hired Renteria as manager, and he managed to not only take the Sox to the playoffs this year, but also got them to surpass the Northsiders in accomplishment. That could be a lot of fun! Honestly who cares where they come from if they can do the job? The one thing that has been extremely noticeable this year is the different in the defense and positioning. Typically this is a bench coach function.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 12:27 PM) It would have been nice to have someone available to fill the offensive hole, but that wasn't to be. No use sitting around waiting and not doing anything else to improve the team. This was an modest improvement which becomes huge *if* other things fall in place. There is still 7 weeks to do so, and Rick made it clear that they are still actively shopping for improvements. I have no doubt they would love to find another power hitting OF.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 11:23 AM) We'll see. If he performs as you suggest AND the Sox at least seriously contend for the playoffs, the trade will have worked. But I think the only way this team contends is to do what this board has been begging them to do - trade any prospect necessary (with the requisite holdback of Anderson) for Brewers, Reds and Rockies. And it will be all or nothing for 16 and 17. And then nothing for a long time. Me, I wish they had continued what they started in 2013 for 2 more years: a sensible build-up of organizational depth. that would have allowed for contention for years to come, starting in 17. The only suggestion for performance I am making is that he will more consistently work deep into games than the guy he is replacing. I am not sure what to expect from Shields. His numbers are odd. While his fastball has fallen in velocity, his cutter has picked up speed. Instead of being about 6mph different like it was a couple of years ago, it is now more like 4.5mph. Part of being effective is having distinct differences between those pitches which doesn't allow a hitter to sit in between and adjust. It is what killed Danks along with a consistent release point.