southsider2k5

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 12:04 PM) Well, this was brought up with the whole Crede "montage" thing and why they didn't do that for Frank Thomas...this was on the Score, they talked about it last Friday for the whole afternoon. Maybe I am oversensitive to all the adoration for Anderson, Rowand and Crede over the last decade. While Thomas has been admired for his ability, I wouldn't say that "love" is quite there, not to the extent Sosa was "beloved" on the North Side until the last couple of seasons. So I will take responsibility for pushing the thread in this direction to, I just didn't come out and say it directly. Personally, I think it was some of the vitriolic and "near hatred" statements about Wise and Owens that bothered me specifically. Psychology will tell you that people tend to identify with someone that is more like them...same color, height, physical attributes/characteriistics, someone that reminds them of themself? That's why you see quite a few Nash and Stockton jerseys, because there are so few white NBA players...and then those guys are short/er, so weekend players who fantasize about being a professional athlete, they rarely see themselves as Jordan/Bryant/LeBron James and certainly never as someone like Shaq. I think in the same way, that size (and attitude, to some) has been held against players like Dick Allen and Thomas in the past. When I look back at the last 15-20 years, my favorite player was probably Lance Johnson. If memory serves me correctly, we were one of the first (if not first) teams to have an all-black/Hispanic starting line-up about 10 years ago, one of the times whe James Baldwin was on the mound and Charles Johnson was catching. We can't compare Chicago to Boston NBA and MLB teams that were maybe 5-15% minority (and it's not a coincidence that the Red Sox have done much better in the last 10 years with a true mixture of the best players from all around the world). As far as Hispanic players treated poorly, there aren't as many examples. Ordonez and Lee left here under mixed circumstances, particularly Magglio. Valentin was very well liked. Players like Alvarez and Alex Fernandez were also very popular. Recent Hispanic players? Well, Marte was run out of here by Ozzie, but that's because he lost his control and confidence completely. You could use the example of Cabrera from last year...although a lot of that was media-driven. Also, I think there has to be a distinguishing between the way the media has mistreated/misquoted great Hispanic players in the past like Clemente or Juan Marichal and the "double standard" to protect the likes of Mickey Mantle from the public knowing about their lives off the field. Of course, this is also true of politics, as JFK was protected and then everything changed with Watergate and then Gary Hart/Donna Rice in terms of media coverage of sports and politics (leading today to Facebook and myspace pictures in almost direct time showing up of players smoking weed, partying, drinking, committing crimes, etc.) As Hawk said, the pressure has changed from a 1/1.5 out of 10 to 7-8-9 out of 10 for today's professional athletes. You are completely 100% wrong when it comes to most Sox fans attitude towards Frank. Go back and read some old Soxtalk threads about him during his last few years here and see what happened whenever someone took a critical view of him. Frank Thomas was, and still is, worshiped by most Sox fans.

QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 11:58 AM) When was that post? I think I missed it. Also, I was only basing my theory on two cases: BA/Wise and Crede/Dye. I feel those two cases are more relevant to the original question posed my Caulfield than bringing up other people from the history of the White Sox organization. Although, the Bevington/Guillen point is very valid. How is what has happened in the recent and long past history of the Sox different than what is happening today? Did Sox fans just recently become racist, biased, prejusticed? These are mostly the same Sox fans that have been around forever. I don't see their general attitude changing towards more racist in the last couple of years.

Two perfect posts LF. Its one thing to spur valued discussion, its quite another when it has no real basis in fact.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 11:47 AM) I think he was going more along the lines of "favoritism" than negative bias. Um, Carlos Lee, Magglio Ordonez (until he lied about the organization and to the organization), Alexei Ramirez, and Ozzie Guillen come to mind instantly as players with huge followings while they were here. If that was the intent, I still call BS.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 11:48 AM) Uribe got paid 5 million dollars to be a bench player last year, and fans never turned on him. Uribe's a poor example. Agree 100%. We were begging for him to take over 3B for most of the year after Crede went south, and that is dispite the horrible hitter that he has been for years.

Pod>Wise>Owens. It isn't ideal, but it is an improvement.

QUOTE (rafacosta @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 11:34 AM) I kinda agree with you on this...this is the same with Latin players. What latin player has gotten harsh treatment from Sox fans that was unfair?

QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 11:13 AM) I actually think a lot of hardcore Sox fans, like on this board, treat black players a lot more harsher than white players. That's honestly the impression I get from how a lot of people act on this board. If a player is black, and he sucks/struggles, he gets booed and hated mercilessly. But if a player is white, and he sucks/struggles, get doesn't get booed as much and gets more benefit of doubt and their other attributes are played up as "positives" to outweigh the negatives of their suckitude. It seems like too many white White Sox fans cheer for white players even though they suck just because they "identify" with the player just because he's white and a young womanizer with funny stories about getting drunk at bars. Yet, if the player is black, the white fans don't "identify" with him just because of his race, which is ridiculous. Also, I think race plays a big role in why a white guy like Joe Crede has more of a cult-like following than a black player like Jermaine Dye. One would argue that both players should have an equal cult-like following, but the majority of white fans, such on this board, were devastated when Crede left the Sox via free agency and they have no problem whatsoever to see Dye being traded or leave as a free agent when his contract is up. The double-standards on race in this board is ridiculous. A lot of people will deny that race plays a role, but I don't buy it. I'm calling it out and the issue here is that race plays a subconscious role in how some fans decide to support a player or not. The issue of race is the only way I can make sense of how some fans are always clamoring for Anderson and ostracizing Wise despite the fact that both of them suck equally. So yes, I do think Anderson SHOULD be booed if he performs badly like Wise, but there's a strange adoration complex going on with White Sox fans for Anderson. We did this already, and I went back and listed many of the players, coaches, and staff that are not "white" but have been loved by Sox fans wholeheartedly. You pretty much ignored the post back then, so I was hoping you dropped this silly notion, but I guess not. Sox fans as a whole love Ozzie Guillen and hated Terry Bevington. You won't hear many fans who look fondly on the Ron Schuler era, yet Kenny Williams gets a whole lotta love around these parts. If it was just a white thing, explain the hate that Jon Garland used to get? You bring up Joe Crede, but I remember the days when his name was mud around these parts and people wanted him traded or released. If we judge races differently how come the most beloved player in White Sox history is Frank Thomas, and not Paul Konerko or Carlton Fisk? Why do the old timers still rave about Aparicio and Gary Peters? Why is Harold Baines number retired on the Sox wall, and not Robin Ventura? Why weren't Sox fans wearing Hory Kow T-shirts when Tadahito Iguchi or Shingo Takatsu was here? Plainly put, your theory is castle of garbage build on sand. There is nothing to actually hold that trash up for any amount of time.

From the Chicago Tribune, April 21, 1934

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 09:45 AM) make sure she orders the baconator X3

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 09:28 PM) Daughters automatically rescind this suspension(although I havent seen it yet. But I am sure at some point my daughter and nieces will want to see it, and I will have to see it as well) And SS2K should agree with this, since there are going to be some embarrassing movies coming up for him Hmmm might be a good plan with as many musicals as I have been forced to sit through in the last year... might also explain the unmitigated anger towards bad musicals.

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 09:47 AM) Im not talking any amount, Im just saying that sometimes these guys are swayed by paychecks thats they previously turned their heads away from. I think he could contribute, but I wouldnt count on him being the guy we all remember. A platoon with BA would probably be ideal for him. He really made 8 million from the Cubs last year? Jeez I do believe he would be better than what we have here, I just am not convinced he would change his mind to play here.

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 09:35 AM) $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ talks, especially for out-of-work players This is a guy who made $8 million last year, and averaged about 10 million over the previous 5 years or so. Why would he want to come to a place he vetoed a trade to for $500,000 or even a million dollars? Or how much are you talking about offering Edmonds?

QUOTE (chisox2334 @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 04:57 PM) and tell ya something why not get edmonds Sounds nice in theory, but this is also a guy who blocked a trade here before. We don't know that he would even want to play for the Sox now.

QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 10:28 PM) Aww I wish I could be in my tweens and talk about pot, steroids, and drunk driving on a message board so I can act like im a badass too

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 07:10 AM) Anything that leads to us replacing a player on our roster with Jerry Owens does not make us better Truely a case of "Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ope...3,0,19700.story

QUOTE (lostfan @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 10:12 PM) Ok, this is something of a public service announcement for everyone's benefit - I understand conservatives protesting high taxes and having "tea parties," but please don't go talking about how you're about to go out "Tea Bagging" because that has a very different meaning than it had in 1776. Just saw someone say that and I felt like I had to get that out there. Would you like one nut or two?

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 04:51 PM) It was way cooler when it was by choice. This is just stupid. Exactly. They are honoring a guy who broke down barriers, by forcing their will on everyone. Brilliant. I can't think of a more inappropriate way to honor Robinson.

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 03:44 PM) Maybe we should change his name to "Britney"?

Anderson with his second steal of the day

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 03:02 PM) He's still looking for his first hit of the season. I wish, and I know it will not happen, they call up Beckham and moved Ramirez to CF. They wouldn't move Ramirez just for 15 days or so. It might happen if Gordo were coming up here for good, but not on a temporary basis.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 02:50 PM) But im talking about the 7th. Come on, were you comfortable seeing him out there after the Tiggers loaded the bases with 1 out the previous inning off him? I wouldn't say comfortable, but even if the first guy gets on, you still can use your other guys. Its only April and you don't want to burn up your bullpen before the season really gets going.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 02:46 PM) An inning after loading the bases? I'm fine with him being on the roster but let's not act like a 4 run lead in the 7th is mop up duty either. Its not where you want to use your studs in the 6th inning either.