balfanman

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 10:58 PM) Well... Bay, Gutierrez, Ichiro is one hell of an outfield. Plus, putting Figgins at 3B helps a bit. They'll re-sign Branyan for 1B or DH. Wilson will be at SS with Lopez at 2B. I don't know who they'll have catching though. They traded Clement away and Johjima's back in Japan. Maybe they'll take Flowers for Ichiro!

Just to play devils advocate here as I don't really want this guy on the Sox either. But........ our manager has stated a few times over the last couple of years that he is tired of his club being thrown at. Could it possibly be that they see Padilla as not only a candidate for relief, but someone who is not afraid to throw back at someone as well. Just a thought.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 01:35 AM) Danks is decent: Career: 31-33 - 4.06 ERA - .258 AVG - 1.33 WHIP That is 3rd or 4th starter material on an average MLB staff. I can also remember several games, especially his rookie season, where Danks either got a no decision or a loss due to bullpen or offensive failure.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 2, 2009 -> 03:08 AM) Eh. I'm not sure that excuses it. They won 90 games in 2006...it's not like they had a terrible year. Disappointing, but not terrible. Regardless of the situation of the team, the trade itself was blasted as being a horrible trade when people clearly didn't know anything about what was going on. They didn't know that Floyd struggled because Philly horribly mishandled him. They didn't know that Garcia's arm was about to fall off and that getting anything at all for him was a steal. They terribly overvalued him in that trade market and many people behaved as if they were absolutely positive the Sox were doing the wrong thing. And up until now, they've gotten a better pitcher in John Danks over McCarthy and, unless something changes, they will prove that they knew what they were doing in trading for him. The point is that sometimes we should concede that we don't know nearly half of what we think we know about player value and player potential, and we shouldn't be so confident in some of our opinions when we usually don't know the whole story about certain players. People were calling for teh Gm to be fired because of that rade alone. I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no defense for that. I could not possibly agree with you more here Chris. One of the things that upsets me the most on message boards are the people who come across as the "I know everything and you are all wrong" type. We all have opinions and that is a great thing, I love hearing other peoples opinions as it helps to form mine on issues that I know very little about. I just wish that some posters would learn how to express themselves in ways that don't come across as a know it all. In my case, baseball is a hobby and I enjoy it, but I freely admit that I am far from an expert in the field. There are very few here who make their living in baseball and only have opinions, not facts. Personally, I would hold an opinion such as Rangers in higher regard than most because I know that he is closer to those actually involved in the game than others. I doubt that even those employed directly in the game would consider themselves experts as they are wrong sometimes as well. Every G. M. in the game has been wrong before in player evaluations, no ones perfect. That's my soapbox, sorry. As far as Garcia in 2006. I seem to remember, even though I wasn't actively posting then I checked this site out most everyday, that most of us thought that there was something wrong with Freddy all season long. I personally thought that he had arm problems and I thought that we were very fortunate to recieve anything at all for him. I liked the trade at the time and thought that the Philly G. M. was extremely foolish for not giving Freddy a physical when most of the "baseball world" suspected arm problems. JMHO.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 03:32 PM) but why would you want to trade good prospects for him,because like someone said in a different thread. he has a ton of potential but he is a question mark. its not 100% sure thing like gonzalez. if im making a trade its for gonzalez not for upton...or am i wrong? I have no idea what the trade pieces would end up being or how badly Tampa would want to deal him if at all. I would much rather have Gonzales as more of a proven comodity. I'm simply commenting that I would consider obtaining Upton a rather large move.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 02:36 PM) I kept being told that all the moves we made last year were for 2010 and if we happened to win the division in 2009 that was supposed to be gravy. Now we're pushing it another year? Good catch and I agree. We need to go for it now.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 02:19 PM) I really do expect us to make a move. Not a huge one (A-Gone), but a promising one (Upton). Just a matter of semantics I guess, but I would consider Upton a huge move.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 01:47 PM) Takashi Saito could potentially do what Dotel does, you can find that kind of production. It's not worth paying him 2+ times what he's worth just because you don't want to risk losing him. For no team in baseball is Octavio Dotel worth ~$6.5M a year let alone one that bumping up against their budgetary ceiling. Once again, I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but we are looking at potential here. There are probably a hundred or more options out there that can "potentially do" what Dotel does. Dotel is not a lock to perform as his usual self either, but I believe that he is a much safer bet than most any other name that I've heard is available. I would hate to miss the playoffs next season mainly because our bullpen sucked when we had a piece in our grasp and let him go. I think that we tremendously under value what Dotel has done the last couple of seasons. You may well be correct, I just don't know. I only hope that K. W. and his scouting staff make the right decision here.

I'm greatly disappointed that there is no Ron Santo to vote for.

First off I was just wondering exactly when the Winter Meeting are scheduled for. Aren't they fairly soon? I was also wondering if anyone has any kind of a feel about just what K. W. is working on, what his plan is? I know that there have been a lot of rumors so far this off season and Kenny was probably just feeling things out. Now that he's done that, what do you think that he will focus on? My personal feeling, maybe it's just a wish, is that Kenny is going to hotly pursue the Gonzales deal. I think that he still wants to make a big splash and that he knows that this offense is not good enough, even with our pitching, to compete for a championship. I know that many things probably have to take place for this to happen, dump salary, etc.; but I just can't see Kenny just sitting back and hoping that this offense is good enough after he has put together this pitching staff. I think that he (the Gambler) goes for broke.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 10:44 AM) Sounds good in a vacuum, but it sounds bad when you consider that the $6M he'd probably earn would likely hinder the efforts to fill actual holes in the lineup. So I don't think offerring arb is a good idea - try to sign him to a new deal as shack said, if he'd take a couple mill maybe, but I think he'll get more than that as a free agent. That's all well and good, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but you do risk losing him that way. Would Dotels value be replaced by whoever replaces him in the bullpen? I'm not talking about financial value, I'm referring to performance.

I know it's a lot of money (not mine fortunately), but I still think that Dotel is the best option out there and personally I would offer him arbitration. The worst that happens is he accepts and we overpay for what should be a quality reliever. JMHO.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 30, 2009 -> 12:20 PM) Oh, well I think we all know what Thome can do. I wasn't trying to compare the two. I'd take Thome back before Cust, and I think Thome would play for cheaper anyways. All I'm saying is Cust's numbers would most likely improve if he played here. I do agree with you but couldn't you say that about any power hitter playing at the Cell?

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Nov 30, 2009 -> 12:06 PM) I think the reason we are all least concerned about Freddy is because he is the 5th starter. Thus, he is the easiest to replace. An injury to Gavin or John would have a much more negative impact on the team. Not sure exactly what you meant by this but my lack of concern for Freddy has nothing to do with the number "5". As of right now I would have to say that Freddy probably does have the least amount of "pure stuff" on the staff. That being said, my opinion is that Freddy will prove to be one of, if not the most valued members of the rotation next year. You can call me optimistic or whatever other name that you have for me, but I think that Freddy has more "moxy" than anyone else on the staff, even Buerhle, and I love Mark. Admittedly I have not yet formed an opinion on Peavy yet because I really haven't observed him much. Freddy knows how to pitch and for whatever reason I feel that Garcia may just turn into our most consistant pitcher next season. For what it's worth, if I had to make a prediction for comeback player of the year in 2010, I would bet on Freddy over anyone else right now.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Nov 30, 2009 -> 11:39 AM) Actually, of I'll the guys I'm concerned about, Freddy is the last, too. Gavin is a slight concern but I'm acually more worried about the health of Danks. He should be fine, but there is some concern. Is this due to Danks' blister issue, or is there another concern?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 30, 2009 -> 08:45 AM) So you are more concerned about Gavin because he wasnt allowed to pitch his last few meaningless starts as opposed to Freddy who was released by the Mets last year and took over for those last few meaningless starts after rehabbing again in the minors? To me a shoulder injury is much more worrisome than a hip pointer. I believe that Floyd and Ozzie have both stated that the hip problem caused Floyd to alter his mechanics. To me, that says arm problem just waiting to happen. Again, I don't pretend to be "in the know" on this situation. it just seems to me that Floyd could very well be a bigger injury risk than Garcia at this point.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 29, 2009 -> 04:57 PM) I don't debate that his long-term future is that of a starter. But assuming everybody is healthy (obviously Freddy is the one to worry about the most as far as health goes), there's not going to be a rotation spot open. I disagree with this statement that several people, not you in particular Jordan, have made over the last couple of months. Freddy is now 2 seasons removed from surgery and I think by most would be considered just about fully healthy. I realize that he is never going to throw high 90's heat again, but he has shown that he can be very effective as a "junkballer". The pitcher that I am most concerned about is Gavin Floyd and his hip injury. I don't think that it was ever clearly identified as just a one time thing, or explained to be a reoccuring problem. Someone did say at one time I believe that Gavins injury is different from what cut short the career of Brit Burns, but I still wonder if this is something that is going cause future problems for Gavin as well. Gavin did say something about a month or so ago about "feeling fine", but it wouldn't be the first time that someone thought that they were good to go after being off of it for a couple of months only to find out that the problem still existed after they started to be active again. This could also be why Gavin decided to sign his contract last offseason, maybe he felt that his hip could turn into a problem and wanted to protect himself in the case that it did. I'm not a doctor and I am not trying to be pessimistic towards Gavin. I just think that Floyd is more of a concern than Garcia at this point.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 11:10 AM) The problem is that Dotel is not worth what he is going to be offered in arbitration, which is why the Sox will not offer it. I don't necessarily disagree with that. If they are thinking of trading Jenks that would leave a big hole in your bullpen that you would most likely wind up overpaying for someone anyway. I think that if your going to overpay someone Dotel is probably a better bet to have a good season than anybody else I've heard mentioned as available and you would still be paying Dotel less than what Jenks would make in arbitration. If Dotel doesn't accept than you have the draft picks. As always JMHO.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 10:40 AM) Neither player will be offered arbitration. KW got lucky with O-Cab last year. He's not going play that same game again, especially with two guys that seem like they'd want to come back. I just don't think that you can be sure of that in Dotels case. The worst that happens is he accepts, and while it is a little more expensive than you would of hoped for, you at least have a competant option for a second set up man which we do not currently have.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 09:36 AM) I split off this bullpen discussion to its own thread. Let's have some perspective here on the Sox bullpen in 2009. First, here are the team's ranks among the 14 AL teams in various measures: ERA: 8th SAVE %: 6th BB/9: 2nd lowest K/9: 5th HR allowed: 3rd lowest WHIP: 10th Basically, all in all, the Sox had an OK bullpen last year, statistically. As for 2010, Dotel is gone (we are assuming). Unless a trade occurs, we still have these core guys: Jenks (had a down year) Thornton (had a career year) Linebrink (had his worst year) Carrasco (had basically the same year as 2008) Pena (had an OK year) Remember too, Pena's OK-ness replaced some extremely weak links, so this year, you get a full year of him, so right there is likely to be an improvement over that slot last year in total. Jenks and Linebrink both had bad years, its unlikely they'd both be bad again (but possible). Carrasco seems to be pretty much clockwork. That leaves two slots open from Williams/Nunez/Hudson/someone new. And those two slots would be replacing Dotel, and the revolving door spot. Williams was effective in his time there, Hudson probably would be pertty good, and Nunez has some nice potential. The Sox had an average pen last year, and all indications are that there's a good chance it improves in 2010, without doing ANYTHING. So, while I am all for looking for improvement, I wouldn't make it a priority, or spend a bunch of money on it. I think that that HR allowed stat is excellent considering that we play 81 games at the Cell.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 07:34 AM) i didn't know Blalock was a Boras client. He's who i wanted the Sox to bring in. Does anyone know whether or not Mike Cameron can still play plus defense? He would kind of intrigue me to play right field if can still do it. I would think that he could still put up some power numbers in the Cell.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 03:01 AM) I just wonder why we all assume Crisp will be good defensively. Surgery on both shoulders for a guy already not known for a gun?Ranger's point is well taken IF everybody hits like they are capable we might be OK. Big if, but it's possible the lineup might score some runs. I wish they'd sign Thome and get that taken care of. This makes a lot of sense to me, the bolded part. I trust that K. W. and his staff are doing their "due dilligence" prior to signing someone coming off of an injury. I kind of like the Crisp of old. I know absolutely nothing about what Crisp is like today.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 08:22 PM) Dotel is gone and the bullpen was horrible last year. If the Sox picked up Pujols to DH and Holliday to play RF, if the bullpen performs like it did in 2009, they wouldn't win. Are we positive that Dotel is gone yet? I personally think that the Sox are considering offering Dotel arbitration. It would not suprise me to see Dotel accept it, and I can't say that I would mind if he did. Since the Sox don't seem to be "excited", for lack of a better word, about bringing Jenks back, this would allow them to trade Jenks. You could possibly slide Thornton into the closer role, Dotel to set up, and find one more lefty reliever. You would in essence be paying Dotel slightly less then you would be paying Jenks, which might be enough of a difference to sign another reliever. JMHO.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 06:29 PM) Another idea if we could get Adrian for prospects: Konerko ($12M) + Linebrink ($5M in 10, $5.5M in 11) for Affeldt ($4M in 10) + Rowand ($12M in 10-12) + cash in 2012 Sox would cut $1M off the payroll. Affeldt would be the lefty setup man if Thornton becomes the closer, or else Affeldt would be the 2nd lefty. Rowand becomes our RF in 2011 for basically $6.5M if you consider Linebrink a sunk cost. In 2012, the Sox get about $5-6M cash from the Giants to make Rowand's deal worth it. The Giants OTOH would get out of about $12M in commitments to Rowand while upgrading 1B in 2010. S Crisp LF (if we do sign him) R Beckham 2B L Gonzalez 1B R Quentin DH L Pierzynski C R Rios CF L Teahen 3B R Rowand RF R Ramirez SS I'm not the biggest Rowand fan either but he did put up some decent numbers in Philly and Pac Bell has not been kind to him the last couple of seasons. I would definitely be in favor of this deal as well. I basically think that getting Gonzales on this team, at almost any cost, is a huge upgrade and could put us over the top. Matthews or Rowand I think is better than any third outfioelder that we currently have. 1st base - Gonzales + outfield - Quentin, Rios, Matthews / Rowand >>>>>>> 1st base - Konerko + outfield - Quentin, Rios, ????

I don't really remember all of the logistics off the top of my head, but there would be prospects going back and forth as well. The main point was having the Angels give cash / prospects and Matthews for Konerko. We'd have Gonzales for 1st base and would be able to shop for DH/ Outfield with Konerkos' salary gone, or just use Matthews in the outfield. We would send whatever prospect we got from the Angels with our own for Gonzales.