2nd_city_saint787

2 years with a sub 3 era in 4 years. 3 sub 3 era months last year including 2 sub 2 months. RHers are hitting .207 against him the last 3 years..Not a bad signing. A little puzzling though with Reed-Jones-Lindstrom-Webb-Petrika all looking capable as RH relievers....Though I suppose Jones might as well be a LHer.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:49 PM) It will be either that or draft order. I can't see Houston or Miami beating the Sox if Hahn wanted him. Especially if Hahn also wanted to keep him from the Cubs. If the bold part is true, I'd hope they throw the money at him....Wouldn't shock me to see Houston or the Marlins try and get him though if draft order is the determining factor. Get em Hahn, then add a piece or 2 to the bullpen and just shut motherf***ers down for 9 innings.

How stupid of the Mariners, offense was horrible, they got the 6th pick in the 2nd round, why would they make such an investment.

I've got a perhaps really dumb question...let's face it, all my posts in this thread have been dumb....I've got some old school dumbbells where you load the weight yourself, can I put a 25 on one side and a 15 on the other? tried doing 25s on both and I can only do a few reps when trying the overhead press. I don't have 4 20s otherwise I'm sure I can rep those out.

Another direction they could go with the bench is (Once again assuming they can trade Kepp) is PK-catcher-Danks-Elmore. Elmore can be Gillaspies platoon partner, and spell Beckham and Lexi from time to time. He's got no power(neither did Kepp tho) but on days he plays he should be a crafty little #2 hitter who can get on base (.352 obp vs LHP last year, career .387 obp in the minors).

Just in case you missed these greg. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 04:11 PM) Dan Hayes ‏@DanHayesCSN 3m Konerko: I've played with some guys who were great at this (role). Mark Kotsay. Jim Thome. Konerko: "I’m hoping the pros in the end outweigh the cons." Konerko: This is where it is for me. I'm a #WhiteSox and it killed me to see what went on last year. Konerko: I didn't want to hamstring Robin with the roster. ... Says he knows there are going to be questions about roster. Paul Konerko said he's been anticipating this type of role and is ahead of everyone in preparing for transition. Paul Konerko: "I knew last year if I was going to play it was going to be something like this." QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 04:13 PM) Scot Gregor ‏@scotgregor 2m Konerko on new part-time role: "It'll be challenging but I'll give it hell" PK: "The easiest thing would have been to retire. But the way last year went..." Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 9m PK: "I’m a good employee to have. I have no future. I have no agenda. For me it’s I hope I do well when I’m in there." Does Konerko expect a farewell tour around the league: "I sure hope not." That is definitely not Konerko's style Konerko: "Truthfully, I probably wouldn’t be coming back to any situation if I knew I was slated to play a lot." Started thinking about...

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:04 PM) You guys aren't going to like this post. ... Robin Ventura is a former player. As such, Robin Ventura respects near Hall of Famers like Konerko (he won't make the Hall but a damn fine career). My take to you is it's Paulie's STARTING job to lose. Look ... we go to spring training. Paulie is going to be healthy. Paulie is going to hit .310 in spring training with 6-7 home runs. Paulie Konerko will be starting first baseman. You heard it here first. Please please give me credit when this happens. It's going to happen. p.s. Am I the only person on Soxtalk thrilled with his return? Oh greggy boy....Have you even read the quotes from PK....He doesn't even wanna play everyday.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 05:15 PM) I agree that's probably how it will go down. Now ask yourself this question...where is there use for a RH hitting PH in that scenario? Pinch hitting for De Aza and Gillaspie, and that's about it. And Dunn of course. How often do AL teams even pinch hit? I remember a thread about a month ago and weren't we near the bottom in the league in pinch hitting? Having PK on the bench will surely jump that number.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 05:06 PM) That's tolerable although still slightly weak. The problems with it are; you have to spend $9 million on Keppinger's buyout to make it happen, and then you have Gillaspie no longer being a platoon 3b, he becomes an everyday 3b. Just trade for Chase Headley

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 04:53 PM) The Indians had 1 guy on their roster who was useless at positions other than DH. The White Sox basically have 2. The comparison was to the Indians, so that means the White Sox have more dead space on their bench than the Indians did. "If we can trade keppinger" is the problem. To move him right now we're going to have to eat >$5 million (IMO I'd guess the White Sox would actually have to eat all $9 million remaining on his deal). Why is that a good idea? Why do we need to pay that money to create a roster spot for a guy who can't play the field? That bench, as you wrote it is slightly better than the one we'd be looking at if we didn't buy out Keppinger because now it actually has a lefty, but still has the flaw of 1 guy backing up 3 positions. I guess I just don't see the harm in having 1 utility infieder, and 1 utility outfielder. Why is it a "flaw" to have 2 guys that can play 3 positions? I thought versatility was a good thing? How often does a team sit 2 infielders on the same day? Wouldn't having 1 guy suc for all 3 positions be better because he's getting more regular at bats?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 04:27 PM) They didn't have a regular DH other than him. Santana was DH in 47 games. Giambi DH'd in 58 games. 17 games for swisher, 20 games for Reynolds, 17 games for Raburn. Giambi filled Adam Dunn's role on that team. We're carrying an extra one of those. Seriously, what is the difference between having 5 guys DH as opposed to 2? If you have other guys that can fill in at other positions with the 2 remaining bench spots then why is it such a big deal? If we have to keep Kepp, what is the big deal about playing Beckham 10 times a year at SS? If we can trade Kepp, what's wrong with a PK-Catcher-Garcia-Danks bench?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 03:17 PM) Because despite your arguments that it doesn't hurt the team you know in your heart it was the wrong decision on based on the rebuild/retool that has to be given every consideration. My post was in reference to baltas post, as in I'm not sure why the feeling he was having about the Sox competing has now gone away after upgrading the DH position.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 02:25 PM) Well there's one explanation. I'm one of those who, in the back of my mind, kept thinking with this pitching staff they had a shot. Now at least I know they don't care about winning, so I can save myself $200 next year as I can catch the late-season standing ovation for the guy on highlights. I have that same feeling in the back of my mind.....Not sure why upgrading the DH position as opposed to someone like a Angel Sanchez who isn't gonna get a lot of playing time eliminates that feeling.

Wouldn't hate it, but I've been coming around on Turner. I'd really love the dynamic of Turner and Micah Johnson reeking havoc at the top of the lineup.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 10:45 AM) You're right it is a difference of opinions as well as stats. I see what you're saying but I'm looking at it as we have enuff guys that strike out a lot and hit for a poor average already. As for Dunn, I have a very tuff time seeing the Sox winning with the Adam dunn I've seen the last three years. I'm guessing Granderson will net 13m per season or more in which case I'm not interested based on my post above. I admit 10m per would be intriguing but not sure even then. Just my opinion is all. Thing is, didn't they almost already do just it last year? If he and PK weren't broken down(both were dealing with injury) down the stretch they very well could have won the division.

I doubt it's retirement, but lets say it is, does his salary come off the books?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 11:16 AM) Paul Konerko is the 25th man. He isn't expected to be a key contributor. He has signed to occassionally DH, and maybe play 1B on occassion. It isn't remotely like passing on Thome. It is passing on a Tyler Greene-type. Exactly, any bench player you bring in isn't going to help them in the future. Hell bringing in Paul could actually help the future by masking Dunns deficiencies against LHP and thus making him look more attractive in a trade around the deadline. The regular rest might also serve him well as well.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 10:51 AM) How many DH's do you need ? With the Sox defense last year we need all the defensive replacements we can get. Do you want to see PK get a hit in the late innings or extra innings and watch him try to score the winning run ? If the game goes into more innings do you want to have his range at 1st base ? Can he play 3rd base or outfield or catcher when one of our bad offensive players gets pinch hit for ? There's no way you can argue that a team needs more versatility at DH than they do at all the other positions. When you have a team full of offensive and defensive suck yes you need to pinch hit and replace them defensively as much as possible or platoon them in the 1st place . Can PK platoon with anyone but Dunn ? ABreu DH/1st base, Dunn DH /1st Base Konerko DH/1stbase , Viciedo DH/future 1st base . Woo hoo we have a whole team of DH's. With the Sox defense last year we need all the defensive replacements we can get- Ok so in a late game situation who do you wanna see replaced? With Leury and/or Danks you clean up 2 positions by putting one of them in CF and moving De Aza to LF where he is better suited. If they carry both Leury and Danks, which is a possibility then you can have Leury at 3B. Who else do you wanna take out? Do you want to see PK get a hit in the late innings or extra innings and watch him try to score the winning run ?- Why can't they just put Danks or Leury in the game to pinch run after Paul gets on? If the game goes into more innings do you want to have his range at 1st base ? Assuming he came in to face a LHP, I'll take that chance all day. Can he play 3rd base or outfield or catcher when one of our bad offensive players gets pinch hit for ? No but Leury Garcia or Jordan Danks can. It's a non story to me. We have the versatility, much like the Indians did last year with players like Aviles and Raburn, to counteract having a player like Pauley(or Giambi in Clevelands case) on the bench.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 10:38 AM) Sanchez or Greene because they aren't taking away at-bats from the 2nd most important player in the franchise's future. Adam Dunn is the 2nd most important player in our franchise's future? QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 10:39 AM) Sanchez or Green (or Leury) because I want Alexei to get a few extra offdays in the first half in order to make sure he stays healthy and hopefully give him time to find a groove that will help his trade value. Again, why are we assuming Leury isn't on the bench? Or for that matter why not Beckham for ~10 times a year at SS, I don't see the problem there either. oops, didn't see you mentioned Leury....In that case, why can't PK and Leury both be on the bench.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 09:21 AM) Because of PK they will have one less pinch runner, one less defensive replacement , one less LH handed hitter in other words less versatility. You don't strive to have more versatility at DH when you're coming off 99 losses. You strive to updgrade positions. Rationalize it any way you want. This move spells "we are not as embarassed about last year as we previously led you to believe because PK was a big part of that embarrassment." You move to the future by cutting ties with the past not hugging it so you feel all warm and cozy with it. And how often do AL teams pinch hit? How many defensive replacements do you need? Leury or Danks can play CF while ADA shifts to LF in late game situations, where else do you need a defensive replacement? Do you want to fill the bench with LH hitters? Danks very well could be on the bench. I just don't think this is anything to be upset about, like another poster said, would you rather have PK or Angel Sanchez/Tyler Greene?

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 01:37 AM) Outside of an extremely boring off season so far would someone please explain to me why we want to sign a 32 yo that has hit above .250 once since 08 , strikes out a ton and comes with a hefty contractual commitment ( both salary and years) ? Considering he was batting in the Yankee lineup, what can you reasonably expect from him in the Sox lineup who's offense was piss- poor at best last year? I want to see the sox get some players, but the right players. Going after Granderson just seems more like a move out of desperation than anything else. Just don't get it. He had an .811 ops in his last healthy year(2012), takes walks while not clogging the bases, hits for good power, is a good clubhouse presence, and he might just play more inspired in Chicago. I'd expect 30+ HRs, 80+ RBI, and 70+ walks. But I'm saying this as a guy who thinks you can win with guys like Adam Dunn so our opinions may be different.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 08:58 AM) SSS says it better than I could . http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/12/5/5176...of-paul-konerko All that lip service BS about wanting to compette and most of all about getting younger and what Hahn said at the trade deadline last year "more diversified offensive attack. We need better defense. We need a more athletic combination of position players on our roster." Does PK bring any of that ? DHs don't play defense sir, they aren't technically a position player either, and doesn't adding a platoon player/guy who can come in late against LH pitching make them more diverse? The offseason is far from complete, I don't see how upgrading the DH position isn't something that detours them from the possibility of them competing.

QUOTE (daggins @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 12:50 AM) Ok so we expect to carry - Konerko Gillaspie L. Garcia Some catcher JorDanks / other 4th OF Ok, plus the starting 9 is 14. That leaves 11 spots for pitchers. So either you carry one less reliever, or you ditch one of those bench guys. My guess would be Gillaspie, but all of them are excellent bets to out-produce Konerko in 2014. Now at this point you could fall back on it being early in the offseason. Normally this would be the case, but the market has progressed unusually fast this year and the Sox don't have any players that are going to draw much of a return. I, and others, have outlined the possibilities on the bench numerous times. At this point they can either go with... A. PK-Catcher-Keppinger-Garcia- I like this one the most because Lexi is a virtual lock to play close to 162 games, so the fact that Garcia can also play the OF gets more use out of someone who only plays SS. Garcia brings you more speed than Danks, and perhaps even better defense in CF, Danks does have the power advantage but with Pauley or Dunn on the bench they are your guys to come off the bench to try and hit you a HR. B. PK-Catcher-Keppinger-Danks- In this scenario Beckham plays a few games at SS which I think there's no question he can do. then there are possibilities for... C. PK-Catcher-Danks-Garcia- We havent't even hit the Winter meetings yet folks, Keppinger could end up being traded. D. PK-Catcher-Danks-Beckham- See above coupled with the addition of a new 2nd basemen.

QUOTE (daggins @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 01:25 AM) They have marginally upgraded the DH position. This does nothing to help the Sox compete and it eats up a spot that could be used for a more versatile, young player. It's blush used where major reconstructive surgery is needed. My hypothesis, and i'm sure i'm not the first to say it, is that Hahn is trying to insulate the team from poor attendance, at least somewhat, during what figures to be another miserable campaign. Who is this young, versatile player you speak of? We don't want Semien on the bench and Garcia can still have a spot on the bench.

QUOTE (daggins @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 01:01 AM) I think it is a dumb baseball move from an organization that desperately needs a plethora of smart baseball moves. In my mind it is akin to the Mariners signing Bloomquist. It isn't a huge investment, but it is a poorly conceived and wasteful one. Why? Isn't a Dunn/Konerko platoon better than Dunn alone? Only argument I see is that they should have upgraded Dunn period, and not just given him a platoon partner.