2nd_city_saint787

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 05:54 PM) Conte and Wright were competent safeties last year because there was a pass rush. This year Peppers is old, DTs are injured, McCllelin is still bad and suddenly the Bears safeties are being exposed. It's not on coaching IMO. This. As we all know the key to a cover 2 is getting pressure from the front 4. When that doesn't happen the whole defense gets exposed. QUOTE (Jake @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 07:04 PM) Don't talk about the line as proof that you can rebuild things quickly. PFF ranks us second to worst in pass blocking (6th best at run block, though). The bottom 3 on pass blocking: Long, Bushrod, Mills in that order. Mills being the worst as well as PFF's worst tackle in football. He leads the league in QB hurries surrendered by a fairly large margin; Bushrod is 10th worst and Mills has allowed twice as many. Slauson has been our best lineman, according to their stats, with nobody else having a markedly positive impact. The only thing that you can improve right away is your coaching staff, it seems, which has been good enough to cover up a really iffy line. Oh man, you would get so much s*** for saying this over on talkbears. After I brought up that Webb was our best OLmen last year and the whole Bushrod is only a marginal upgrade over Webb article they put out those guys turned on PFF real quick. I for one believe in the work they do. I had the chance to "intern" with PFF so I know how much time they put into analysis. They had me do one player participation spread and it took me nearly 8 hours. Just for s***s and giggles I wanna throw these stats at them and watch their heads explode.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 04:51 PM) If an offense as s***ty as the 2012 Bears can be turned around as fast as it was then the defense can be pulled from out of the depths of hell by 2014 too. That said does anyone know of a mercurial, misunderstood All-Pro DE with behavioral issues languishing away on a bad team that can be acquired with a third round pick? That worked once before. I want Martelus to recruit his brother Micheal over here next year....He was near pro bowl level last year and if he's anything like his brother he's probably a little misunderstood, He's a free agent.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 03:06 PM) Being fully honest, it is much more likely that all of those prospects flop, versus that they all succeed. It's certainly possible and I won't deny that... but like DA said, it's fun to speculate.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 02:52 PM) Let's look at the reverse. Cano gets his contract and just DGAF. He comes out, hits .280/.350/.425 with 15 homers and a .775 OPS. Suddenly you're paying $25 million to a 2 WAR player. We are in Josh Hamilton territory, except worse. Then Gillaspie blows, and then Semien flops as his replacement. Tim Anderson turns out to be nothing more than a decent glove, no better a prospect than Leury Garcia. Micah Johnson proves incapable of hitting advanced pitching and is an Eric Young Jr clone, which is to say that he is a .260/.320/.330 hitter in the majors who can steal 40 bases and literally nothing else. Suddenly you have holes all over and no money to spend. Abreu has turned into a .330/.450/.650 monstrosity of a hitter, but not only do you have no funds to reisign him, but he doesn't want to re-sign with a perennial loser anyways. At this point, you have to ride the storm out with Cano until he gets to about 2 years remaning on his 8 year deal and then eat $35 million just so you can save $15 mill, start Junior Lake Junior in LF because he's better than anything you have, and continue to perpetually suck for the next 5 years. That's potentially 13-15 years of suckage simply because you signed Robinson Cano and he stopped caring. Welllll, if you wanna look at it that way....lol I'm done here.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 02:18 PM) To add on to this, I could see the team competing, and it would be a godsend if they did, but you want to protect yourself if it doesn't. Does Cano push you over the top? I don't believe so, and I can't agree with any argument that says otherwise. If the Sox are to spend $200 million so irrationally, I'd prefer they do it on Ellsbury and McCann to atleast spread out the assets. Beyond ANY of this, the Sox depth is in middle infield. I suggested picking up Brandon Phillips because he could be a decent buy low candidate if you could get him for about $7.5 mill a year because he can be a 3-4 WAR player and is almost certain to be a 2 WAR player. You are talking about spending 3 to 4 times that $7.5 million amount for twice as long for what frankly amounts to a marginal upgrade. Beyond THAT, Marcus Semien could be for real and could put up .270/.370/.430 next year with good defense and then the Sox have a 4 WAR 2B anyways. I actually agree with the bold. I'm just talking about Cano now because of the article someone posted saying the Sox are interested.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 02:05 PM) And a WHOLE bunches of deep holes to fill without much help coming from the farm. Hypothetically speaking... If Semien is the player we all hope he is then he takes over at 3B for cheap. I'd keep him in the minors and see what Gillaspie does in his 2nd year, if he performs then you trade Lexi and play Semien at short. The infield would then be Gillaspie-Semien-Cano-Abreu for awhile. If Gillaspie doesn't improve then you play Marcus at 3rd and keep Lexi. Hopefully after the last 2 years of Lexis contract Tim Anderson would be ready to take over. That's Semien-Lexi-Cano-Abreu for 2 years then Semien-Anderson-Cano-Abreu after that. With Cano signed I could see the Sox moving Micah Johnson to CF(this has been talked about anyway). Keep De Aza or add a stop gap player like Dejesus for a couple years while Micah is adjusting. Jacob May is also a guy who I could see in CF after 2 years. LF or DH could go to Tank with the Sox signing a free agent for the other position Hopefully the Sox can trade a pitcher for a long term catcher. I know that's banking on a few guys who I probably shouldn't bank on but they're there, and hypothetically speaking it could work.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 01:50 PM) They didn't "already" have big contracts. The Tigers signed both of those players to massive extensions. They also brought in Price on a deal as big as his ass. For the White Sox if they got out and bring in a Cano for a bigger contract than any of those guys signed, it could just as easily impact them down the road when guys like Quintana become due for their big paydays. Heck if you give Cano his 10 year deal, it could actually impact the ability sign Chris Sale to his next contract. That is how long of a deal we are talking about here. As it would stand right now the payroll next year would be around 90 mill next year with Cano on the team. They would have the money to extend Q and replace Dunn.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 01:42 PM) The problem is...there's actually a really solid chance that team could win the division or a wild card...but it'd be a major roll of the dice. Right, I'm not saying there isn't a risk here which is why I previously said I'm not clamoring(I think I'm using that right) for the guy. All I'm really trying to say is that I'm not mad at their supposed interest in the guy because I think it could work Wite, I'm also adding in a platoon partner for Phegley, who in this division that's very RHP heavy is a virtual starter. Brayan Pena, who I'd target, hit .325/.346/.455 last year against RHP. Now I know he won't do that as more of a full time player but even as a .250 hitter he offers a big upgrade over the sub .200 Ba Phegley put up. I'm also swapping out De Aza for Dejesus who offers a more heady veteran presence. Or they can potentially trade Santiago for a CF/full time catcher to improve the lineup.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 01:27 PM) No better example than look at where they Tigers are right now. The Tigers already had big contracts like Verlander and Cabrera who were making big money though. The Sox have a team friendly Sale contract and potentially "cheap" JD Abreu deal as the only long term investments.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 12:09 PM) OK, $23 million. $20 million. There aren't many. Spending $25 million on one player essentially means that, for that contract to be fiscally efficient - which is not the same thing as fiscally responsible - that player has to average 5 WAR a season. That means that, over the life of the contract, the player has to pretty much be an All Star every single season. Maybe it's just me, but I look at Robinson Cano and see a guy who is going to turn into a .300/.350/.450, 10 HR, 45 2B type of hitter with worsening defense who will have to move to 1B about 5 or 6 years into that contract. That's a really good hitter still. It's not even close to being worth $25 million. We'll just have to disagree here. I know he probably won't be worth it on the tail end of the contract but with what we have signed right now the 25M a year needed wouldn't cripple the White Sox financially. With the payroll at 90 with Cano this year they could still add a guy like Dejesus, a platoon partner for Phegley at catcher(Brayan Pena is who I want), a LH reliever and still be less than 120M....Lets say 105M(De Aza ~5M is probably gone). Then Dunns 15M is out of the way and they're back down to 90M. That gives them 35M to replace Dunn and extend Q. Semien is probably your 3B at this point. I guess it should be said that I'm not clamoring for Cano, but just that I think it would work financially.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 11:45 AM) They aren't in a position to do so right now either. How many players making $25+ million have won a World Series? I can think of 1, and that team was so far over the luxury tax it was unreal. There's only been 3 of them in history, Ryan Howard(Who won a WS 2 years before the contract and then got bit by the injury bug), King Felix, and ARod so you can't really pull from that. And why aren't the Sox really in position to do so? Like I said in an earlier post, adding Canos 25M this year puts the payroll at 90M. Next year they have Dunns 15M coming off the books, the following year they have Lexi/Keppingers 14M coming of the books, the year after that they have Danks 14 or whatever coming off the books. If they keep the payroll around 120M every year I think they could absolutely be in the position to field a good team.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 10:05 AM) What contract of that size has ever turned out to be a good thing? If it's not gonna be a good thing then why would anyone do it? Someone's gonna give him that contract and without any really big long term contracts I think the Sox can work around 25M a year. Sox may have never done it before but were they ever really in the position to do so?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 21, 2013 -> 11:17 PM) Yes, Paulie stunk, but Soxtalk is pointing out we have a team full of talent, for the simple reason so many people want these guys to return. So I think it's a fair point to make that if you think we have talent, perhaps Leyland could have done a better job with it and been .500 not a 99 loss team, Paulie notwithstanding. Soxtalk is pointing out we have talent that can fill the 7-8-9 holes. The talent Leyland had were 3-4-5 hitters...You can't compare the 2. If the Tigers had a 7-8-9 of Gillaspie-Beckham-Ramirez or whatever but still had a 2-3-4-5 of Hunter-Cabrera-Fielder-Martinez they would still dominate the Central. You're pretty much comparing apples to oranges here, role players to impact bats. When I say talent I'm talking middle of the order guys, not 7-8-9 hitters.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 21, 2013 -> 09:39 PM) Uh, I can be lazy. What can I say? I thought I'd ask one of my soxtalk friends to post the age for me. It may all be about talent, but a lot of us happen to think some of the Sox defensive woes are a poor reflection on Robin. I know the Sox talent sucked, but I can't say everyone agrees with you and me on that. I still see posts wanting Beckham to return and wanting the combo of Kepp/Gillaspie to play third. And many want DeAza back and many want Lexi back and Dunn back. Almost everybody agrees our pitching is good. So according to Soxtalk the team does have some 'talent.' Could somebody like Leyland have done 'much better' at the helm of the Sox? Like I said, the only way to shut up all fans is by winning it all. Ozzie accomplished that and for a while was King of Chicago. Ozzie was able to complete the deal unlike Leyland and Ron Washington. But alas too many years passed after that w/out excelling again and fans tired of his mouth. Most fans. I still worship Ozzie so to speak. And who's the 1 big name you're missing there in your post? Paul Konerko. When your #4 hitter bats .226/.290/.310 vs RHP and you're in a league thats VERY RH heavy that's a recipe for disaster....I mean Jeff friggin Keppinger put up a higher slugging% vs RHP and he wasn't even brought in to face RHP. Conor Gilaspie had a slug% .104 points higher than PK vs RHP, Beckham .089 points higher. Guys like Beckham and the 3B platoon are gonna be your 7-8 or 9 hitters where they can be competent. They're not relied upon to be big run producers like Paulie was relied on to be.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 21, 2013 -> 05:15 PM) That the White Sox are going to give a $200ish million dollar contract to Cano? You can't be serious. That isn't anything like the White Sox. Which kinda saddens me. 25M a year right now would put the Sox salary at what ~95M next year, then ~75M in 2015, ~60M in 2016, ~46M in 2017. (I know these figures will change from year to year but you catch my drift) If they keep the payroll around 120M a year for the next 8 years I think they can certainly work around 25M a year for Cano. Will it happen though? Highly doubtful.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 21, 2013 -> 06:17 PM) They are crazy is what they are. It's why sports figures deserve the big bucks they get. The only way to shut everybody up is to win. Sounds simple, but it is true. The Tigers completely have been dominating the division, but they haven't been able to take it all, so eventually the fans tire of the guy. He's a great manager. I wonder how old he is. Would love for the Sox to get him after next season when Robin is done. Can't say I didn't see this post coming. They've dominated the division because they have an owner who spend his money like there's no tomorrow. It's all about talent. Leyland wouldn't have done much better with the talent the Sox had, and conversely a Ventura lead Tigers team would have dominated the division as well.

QUOTE (Jake @ Oct 21, 2013 -> 06:37 PM) McCown is smart and tough. He's not afraid of the spotlight or the pressure and is reasonably good at not making backbreaking mistakes because of it. His mistakes will be due to the deficiencies in his talent. There are too many weapons on offense to try to tear it down and roll the dice on a random rookie QB. It almost never makes sense to "rebuild" in the NFL anyway since it typically can be done in very short order This. It's just like the White Sox rebuild talks. I think you retool the defense and keep the offense as is. Spend your first 3 picks on the defense, preferably DT/S/CB in some order. Look into potentially cutting Peppers and bringing in MartyBs bro Micheal to take over. Then check in with Melton to see how he's coming along and potentially bring him back on a discounted deal. I think they're too close to being contenders, esp. on offense, to tear it all down. The only radical thing I wouldn't mind seeing them do is moving to a 3-4.

He had a weird year last year. After hitting RHP better than LHP the previous 3 years he all of a sudden put up a .237/.349/.392 this past year. The OBP is sexy but they're gonna have to give up Santiago+ to get him and I don't think I'd do that for an OBP upgrade over ADa.

Brayan Pena could be a good option, he hit .325/.345//.455 vs RHP last year

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 21, 2013 -> 11:51 AM) The A's got by quite nicely picking up Vogt from the waiver wire. Not easy to do, but it's not impossible. Hopefully they think they did nicely enough with Vogt that they would be willing to trade Jaso and the Sox make that trade happen.

QUOTE (professa @ Oct 21, 2013 -> 12:01 AM) Sandoval is going to be really hard to acquire...SF has limited offense as is and I dont think giving up one of our young pitchers is a good idea in the long run for a guy with some injury issues and the last 2 years has put up mid .700 OPS with poor defense. Rather try out Semien or give Conor another look. We're not even competing right now. We won't resign him after this year most likely (probably gonna command 5/80) and gave up a cost controlled pitcher because of it. Not the right move at this time imo. Why not? From the way I see it the Sox will be around $70M after arbitration this year and have another 15M coming off next year. The most certainly can afford to pay Sandoval 16M a year.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 03:55 PM) Well s***, should I even be starting Matt Ryan? Just picked up Foles, he's probably a better play vs Dallas than Ryan with out his 2 big guns against Tampa Bay, correct? QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 04:33 PM) Yeah, I think I'd play Foles there. Especially if it's an away game for Ryan. But I wouldn't listen to me on fantasy, i'm 5-7 b/w two leagues. Sigh...Ryan went for 27 and Foles got hurt.

Started Jordan Reed over Joseph Randle at about 11:30...f*** ya

I'll be rooting for the team that lost 90+ games last year who also struck out 102 more times than our White Sox did this year.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Oct 19, 2013 -> 11:04 PM) Well at least Thornton is kind of a part of the team? Jake Peavy says hi too.