Dick Allen

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 13, 2015 -> 02:49 PM) They probably reviewed and realized Taj should have never been ejected in the first place. Every year I enjoy the NBA playoffs but think to myself how much more I'd enjoy them if it weren't for the refs (and this isn't just in Bulls games). I do think NBA refereeing is the hardest of any sport but I also think the refs are the absolute worst in professional sports and playoff basketball gets refed even worse. As Bulls fans, it is a bit hypocritical complaining about LeBron's calls vs. what MJ used to get, but this one call last night really bothered me because they were watching in over and over and came to the conclusion they did. Joey Crawford and the 2 dopes with him should be suspended for the rest of the playoffs for that call after a review last night. Giving a T the next day is nothing. Giving Cleveland 2 shots and the ball when it was their guy that was at fault should be a fireable offense. I could understand it if there was no replay, but the decision made after watching it over and over makes the NBA look bad IMO.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 02:43 PM) I just had to check this to make sure...Marcus Semien has a higher OPS than anyone on the 2015 White Sox with more than 3 PA. He has also committed more errors than Alexei Ramirez and Conor Gillaspie combined.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 02:05 PM) So to follow that up, if you guys saw Samardzija walking, Alexei being traded, and Anderson taking over as the starting SS next year you'd call that version of the White Sox ready to compete? It would depend on the rest of the roster.

QUOTE (raBBit @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:50 PM) Winning baseball games and making money are not interrelated like you have been positing for so long. Are you saying players aren't more attractive when their contractual liability is lessened? DA already addressed this but there is no way the A's committed to rebuilding. They had moveable pieces they kept. They spent 30 million on a DH. They traded for a back end up bullpen piece. They traded for Zobrist. I forgot about Zobrist. A team doesn't trade for a free agent to be to flip him at the deadline when they are totally committed to rebuilding.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) Um, the Tigers were also able to swing a deal for Miguel Cabrera because they had done a better job of stockpiling highly-regarded talent through going over slot in the draft and through being really bad several years in a row. The Sox could have had Cabrera had they accepted Dontrell Willis.

All I know is I go to a ton of games and love it. There are a lot of legitimate excuses for not going to games. It does take time. It does cost money. People have to work. Their kids always have something going on. But anyone who uses it's better to watch on TV, I don't buy that at all. The team sucks, yeah an excuse, I'm not as interested in bad teams, and certainly if its been a long year, those August games are hard to attend, but even then, I have always been able to get a second wind for the September games, even though usually meaningless , it is the last chance to see them for 6 months. If you have the time and have the money, there is a better chance the White Sox beat the best team in the league the game you attend than any other sport. I bet the majority of people who love baseball got hooked when someone took them to a game, not by watching one on TV. And as I stated before, I am not anti-Hawk. I really enjoy him.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:53 PM) That makes sense if you assume that White Sox fans tend to be older and therefore less likely to want to go out and drink under any circumstances. Instead of "that's where the money is," what I should have said was, "that's where the money is spent." What is interesting is there is a heck of a lot of turnover with all those businesses around Wrigley Field. I read where most lose money on non game days.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:01 PM) No, but letting Lester walk, trading Samardzija for zero established players, and trading away one of the best 3b in the game are very much rebuilding moves. If we traded away Quintana, let Sale walk, and traded away Abreu...I don't think we'd care if we brought in LaRoche to replace him, we'd still call that rebuilding. You stated they clearly committed to a rebuilding season. That is simply not the case. They thought they could win. He was trying to shuffle the deck. It wasn't a clear commitment. If it was, those names I mentioned wouldn't be around.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:36 PM) WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Keeping Scott Kazmir and Coco Crisp, trading for Tyler Clippard. Signing Billy Butler, aren't moves teams "totally committed" to rebuilding make. So laugh all you want. You are incorrect yet again.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:39 PM) Wrigley is a dump and is just as boring as the Cell. However, the neighborhood is completely different and we all know it. All the money is on the northside. All the 20-somethings are on the northside. They all have trust funds. Wrigleyville is bro-heaven. Everyone loves it. It's in the midst of where everyone wants to be. Bridgeport is nice ONLY compared to everything else on the southside. The southside is famous for murder. The stadium is surrounded by parking lots and ugly freeways. There are a couple bars. Wrigleyville is actually considered a tourist attraction. These thing affect ballpark experience. Maybe you or I don't like Wrigleyville, but we must acknowledge that the vast majority of people do. The upper deck view is definitely worse, but like I said, the ballpark (for the masses) is NOT the best place to follow the action anyway. People go to Wrigley simply to BE at Wrigley. Again, you're assuming that attendance = fan interest. It's a proxy, but it is not equal. Whether or not it's worthwhile to go to the ballpark DOES NOT EQUAL how much winning it requires for fans to follow the baseball team. You write about money, do you know studies have suggested on average White Sox fans make more money than Cubs fans? The Wrigley Field area has more crime during the day that around USCF at night.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:30 PM) I gave reasons why the fanbase would think that team was going to crap. Trading away a cy young winner is a pretty good one. Your response was "But they brought back Lyle Mouton please edit your post", so clearly you think that somehow bringing back Lyle Mouton in a trade should have sold tickets. Explain how? What am I forgetting about Lyle Mouton that would offset trading away a Cy Young Winner to the Yankees? Lyle Mouton is used as an inside joke on this board. That is what I was getting at. And as for McDowell, even after trading him they had a big 3 of Alvarez, Fernandez and Bere. All of whom you could have made a case might have been better than Black Jack when the strike hit.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:25 PM) That's a great comparison for what Timmy will probably be like if he's at SS in the big leagues in 2016. The difference? The A's sold off expensive pieces and clearly committed to a rebuilding season and are hoping that Semien can develop into a more solid defender at SS with time. Are you prepared to commit to 2016 as a rebuilding season? They didn't clearly commit to rebuilding.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:26 PM) yeah, ok, I'll agree, explain how acquiring Lyle Mouton would sell tickets? Who said he would sell tickets? Frank Thomas was the back to back MVP. The team was in first place back to back years. They couldn't sell as many tickets as 16 other teams.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:26 PM) Which is consistent with my argument, which is that ballpark attendance has more to do with the ballpark experience than it has to do with interest in the team, and that divide has grown (and will cotninue to grow) as time goes on and technology continues to evolve. I have been to both parks. The ballpark experience isn't very different. And I didn't go up there, but I would bet their upper deck is just as far away from the field. If not farther.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:23 PM) WOW OMG THEY ACQUIRED A 26 YEAR OLD WHO SPENT 1/2 THE SEASON IN CHARLOTTE FOR A CY YOUNG WINNER!!! WHY ON EARTH DIDN'T PEOPLE BUY TICKETS!! QUICK CHECK CHARLOTTE'S ATTENDANCE IN 1995, IT MUST HAVE SKYROCKETED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I figured that one would go over your head. The thing is, Black Jack really only had 1 good year after he left. Trading him wasn't a bad idea.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:21 PM) If anyone would take Danks they'd have moved him by now. Shark...letting him go doesn't fix the payroll mess they created since he's not under contract, and with the way he's pitching right now just settling for the crappy draft pick is starting to seem like better than what we'll be able to get in trade. Ramirez...yes we could possibly move him so I'm hoping he picks it up with the bats more in the next month, and that does help the payroll problem a lot...but then we have the delightful middle infield of Tim Anderson as a rookie who could be in AAA and Micah Johnson as a rushed sophomore next year, which is pretty **** far from a competitive infield. Yet you seem to love Marcus Semien who committed error number 11 last night.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:14 PM) The White Sox also had the multiple-whammy of JR being supposedly one of the leaders of the owners side pushing it that year and lost a chance to make a WS run the previous year and traded jack McDowell and then finished under .500. That wasn't a pleasant time to be a white sox fan. Lyle Mouton was acquired for Jack McDowell. Please edit your post. I do remember watch a Cubs/Sox preseason game at Wrigley before the season started, the Sox had Kruk and Sabo. Harry and Steve were going on and on about how loaded the Sox were.

QUOTE (ptatc @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:11 PM) It's an excuse but I think if you looked at all of baseball it was an excuse that year. It was not a "White Sox fan" excuse. I give all fans a pass that year as everyone was angry with baseball. 17th in the league in attendance after winning the division in 1993 and being in first place in 1994 with the 4th highest payroll, and supposedly a "new" stadium they are using as the excuse Twins fans draw better than the White Sox despite losing 95.5 games a year the last 4 years, seems like a bigger excuse to White Sox fans than others.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 11:59 AM) Because if this team falls flat like it's in the process of doing and the tiny "they spent money on the team" attendance bump evaporates, the financials for next season look terrible without adding a single soul. If they're below .500 in June and especially July, with 2-3 teams ahead of them, I think it would be extremely surprising if they didn't try to move some of that salary they just took on. If they pick up Alexei's option and offer arbitration to most of the guys who are arb-eligible, there's already a payroll increase to $125-130 million on the books for next year, up from $117m this year, and that's with allowing Samardzija to walk. Just to avoid losing money, which this franchise does not like to do, they will either have to turn this season around or they will have to get rid of some fraction of that money. We also heard last year there was no way they could have the payroll they currently are sporting. You have no idea of the White Sox finances. None of us do. They obviously have a plan in place, and that plan doesn't seem to be cutting back payroll after this season.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:04 PM) "Essentially back to back divisions" is not how I would describe the average White Sox fan's response to 1994. Nor would it be mine. They "won" the dvision. Using the strike as an excuse is fine, but it's still and excuse. 17th in the league in attendance isn't very good for a team that had been very successful, and supposedly had the "new stadium" vibe to go along with it. The fans of other teams apparently were able to put the strike behind them.

And the Twins were coming off 99,96, and 96 loss seasons with just the "new stadium".

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 11:52 AM) Wasn't there a minor thing called a "strike" in those years? Maybe one that knocked down the attendance average in the final year? Still was 17th in baseball with the 4th highest payroll and basically back to back divisions, and a "new stadium". The back to back titles is something that supposedly is required for people to attend now.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 13, 2015 -> 10:52 AM) But that's what I'm talking about -- people are changing how they consume the game and teams are finding new revenue streams to take advantage of it. But the White Sox fans are coming out at an extremely low rate as these changes relate to fans of every team. The White Sox have finished in the top half of attendance overall twice this century. In 2006 and 2007. They haven't been in the top 20 since 2010.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 13, 2015 -> 10:35 AM) But his biggest TV deal is his regional deal. That's money off of White Sox fans. And he is partners with the Bulls, Blackhawks and Cubs. If he was on his own, it would be a lot less.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 13, 2015 -> 10:28 AM) You disagree, but most people clearly don't. And when you factor in the MASSIVE difference in cost, I can't blame anyone at all. And it's MASSIVE. Those $5 UD Sunday tickets everyone keeps referring to are NOT what you're consuming. Those seats are absolutely not nearly as good for following the game as TV, and they're STILL $5 more expensive than free. When I lived in Chicago, I went to about 4-5 games per year, but watched about 100-120 on TV. My favorite seats to follow the game (that I can afford) are UD, behind homeplate, rows 1 or 2. I would spend an average of about $30 on those seats. I would spend about $20 on food and beer. I would spend 1.5 hours round trip traveling on the Red Line. Those seats were great for seeing all the action, but I still would miss stuff that would get replayed on TV. If I just wanted to follow the game on a given night, it was NEVER worth $50 and a couple hours on the train when I could get it free at home. I would go to the games for the sake of the ballpark experience, not to see the players play. And that ballpark experience was compelling enough for about 4-5 trips per year. This is my whole point: Fans do not need to go to the game to follow the team. Therefore, the decision to go to a game is based on the ballpark experience. They already own the rights to the action. If the Sox want to increase attendance, they have to make the ballpark experience worthwhile. They're already ROLLING in money from the league and Comcast from selling the rights to the action. The Cell is easily the most boring MLB stadium I've ever been to. That's why I applaud efforts like the Shark Tank and the K Zone because, even if those aren't awesome ideas themselves, they're examples of things you can't get at home. They are adding value to the ballpark experience, which is what they need to do in order to successfully double-dip into the fanbase by simultaneouly creating cable revenue AND ticket revenue. I used to spend a lot of money, but not anymore. I have a weekend package for under $300, and I got on the 11 games for $29 deal. So that's 38 games for about $325. Plus I get free party at ChiSox Bar and Grill, another season ticketholder party, another free game with patio party, and I can basically sit wherever I want because of how few go to games. I spend very little on concessions, especially if I am with my wife. When I had club level seats, the server in our section said she was bad for business. But White Sox fans have used price as an excuse, they have used no lower deck access, although they usually don't check anymore, they used blue seats. All that has been changed, yet one thing remains consistant, people still won't go, and it will be something else. On WSI last year, and they whine about everything, from the parking lot guys and ushers not smiling at them to wondering why minimum wage employees who will be lucky to clear $20 a game after taxes, not being superstar servers, they complained that the $20 seats to watch Sale pitch weren't good enough seats. So basically what they were saying was the lower deck access thing so they could look at the statues and stuff was just a lie, they need a team that will win every year and a $15 seat within a couple rows of the dugout.