Dick Allen

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 29, 2015 -> 05:19 PM) and they got better when Bill died I am not going to insult anyone's intelligence and say Rocky isn't better than his father, but they were about to get good . Whether it was at least 2 cups good we will never know.And JR is a far better steward than Dollar Bill. I hope you aren't suggesting you look forward to JR"s death.

Who took Beck's spot? NM. Webb sticks. I thought they might go after Santos.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 29, 2015 -> 05:04 PM) LOL! What a reach. Just a fact.The funny thing is the guy that actually put the team together was Tallon. Former Blackhawk long time Bill Wirtz guy.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 29, 2015 -> 04:41 PM) And how did that change? Bill died. Son decides to line the organization with people from consistent winning organizations and not littering it with former players. The first guy he hired was from the very picture of winning organizations the Cubs

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 29, 2015 -> 03:06 PM) Prince Shembo charged with animal cruelty. (He killed his girlfriend's dog). Will be interesting to see how the NFL responds to this. Between Atlanta's prvious animal cruelty experience and Shembo's past, will be interesting how they respond as well. Is there a dumber group of individuals than pro athletes?

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 29, 2015 -> 02:31 PM) 21-25 is such a s***ty start for the Sox. Even 25-21 wouldn't have been too bad. 25-21 would be an 88 win pace.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2015 -> 02:54 PM) They could fire the entire Bulls front office tomorrow, and it wouldn't bother me a bit. But at the end of the day, the GM is the Coaches/Managers boss. The VP of baseball/basketball operations is the GM's boss. Jerry is all of their boss. That is the chain of command. The other part is that just because your boss is an idiot, doesn't mean you just can't listen to him. Again, you'll be looking for work. I agree. I'm just saying but I doubt there isn't anyone who hasn't had a few WTF moments with their boss over the course of their work lives.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 29, 2015 -> 02:51 PM) This is why college coaches like Hoiberg who are beloved should "just say no" to the NBA unless all they care about (and this is possible) is making a few million more per annum. Smith wrote: "It’s why the shelf life of the NBA coach isn’t long; in his fifth season, Thibodeau ranked fourth senior NBA coach with his team. The other three all had won titles." Hoiberg won't last more than 2-3 years with Chicago unless the Bulls win it all which they probably won't. I agree. He apparently loves the NBA. So good for him. He could be the king not just the Mayor of Ames and have more money than he would ever need for the rest of his life if he stayed. Seems like a no brainer to me, but apparently he doesn't feel the same.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2015 -> 02:37 PM) What you are saying makes no sense. One time you are saying that there is no chain of command. But when the general manager goes to the coach, who works for him, and tells him to do something, he is meddling? Same with the White Sox. Rick Hahn does the leg work. Final approval for moves goes through the chain of command into Kenny and then finally, and if necessary, Jerry. Certain guys are obviously responsible for certain things. Do you honestly think that Jerry or Kenny are the ones making out line ups? But, when there is a bigger problem with the performance, such as with the Bulls and Thibs playing guys too many minutes, then the chain of command kicks in and tells him to knock if off. I am not sure where you have worked in the past that you have full autonomy over everything, but that is pretty much the textbook definition of chain of command. But coaching and GMing are two different things. We all understand either having a boss or being a boss, but must of us with a boss would get very frustrated if that boss got too involved in doing a job you are quite good at. I would say Thibs winning coach of the year would qualifying him as at least having some sort of idea how to coach an NBA team. When the boss becomes too intrusive and/or doesn't allow the employee any of their own thoughts or ways, in any line of work, it probably is going to end soon. Just because someone is a boss doesn't mean for optimal performance, they don't have boundaries as well. We don't know the actual interaction between Thibs and GarPax. Face it Pax going after VDN is grounds for dismissal. Just ask Kendall Gill. The Bulls have had the regular press release, JR's press release, a press conference, and are leaking things like the players don't like Thibs. They are doing precisely what they said cannot be done if an organization is to be successful.

There should be free conversation and those conversations should remain private. Thibs must have leaked this: http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...partner=ya5nbcs

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 29, 2015 -> 01:50 PM) How do you guys have so much insight into how well the White Sox internal chain of command works? Are you all ex-employees or something? The White Sox are a limited partnership. JR is the only general partner. He is large and in charge. I'm sure he listens to his partners, but ultimately his decision is what happens.

If someone said before his start he would give you 6 innings and the Sox would be down 2 when he left, I would have taken it. His overall numbers were pretty brutal, but he did keep the team in the game, and it was his debut, and he's not exactly a top 50 prospect. There is something to build on.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 29, 2015 -> 01:28 PM) Nik should. He struggled at times this year due to being winded, etc, but he should be a good 3 point shooter. Brooks is as well (not sure if he will be back). I forgot about Mirotic. He and McBuckets were working out at the gym I go to before the draft last year, doing drills. McBuckets did one were he was running around cones, acting like he was working off of screens, and they would pass him the ball at the 3 point line and he hit about 20 in a row at one point. Last season was a disaster for him, but I think he has some talent. I didn't see Mirotic until I was leaving in an elevator and I happened to have a black thermal shirt on with a Bulls emblem. I noticed this guy with Real Madrid shorts, but didn't recognize him because of the beard. I've always question NBA and college player listed heights because I am a shade under 6'6" and I stood next to guys listed 6'8" and have been looking them straight in the eye, but Niko is legitimately very tall. He said goodbye to me in the elevator. Probably because of my shirt.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ May 29, 2015 -> 01:16 PM) Why do you keep bringing up how the Cubs do things? We're talking about the White Sox and how whatever the hell they are doing on the South Side has led to one of the worst 30 year stretches in club history outside of 2005 when almost everything broke their way. Whatever they are doing isn't working. Try something new. You wrote in glowing terms about the job Rick Hahn did last offseason. Are you stepping back from those now?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2015 -> 01:10 PM) Again, no GM is "100% on his own". Hell even Jerry himself has to answer to the Board of Directors. The way this partnership is drawn up, JR has all the power. He listens to the BOD, but he doesn't have to. He has carte blanche to do whatever he pleases. And if he dies, he has it set up to where that power goes to his executor.

QUOTE (bmags @ May 29, 2015 -> 01:11 PM) It's amazing that Thibs would leak things to the media. The bulls org certainly didn't try that at all. Nor would they ever openly shop the coach and flaunt his replacement. What a terrible person he is to betray them. They have had great working relationships with 4 previous coaches, why couldn't he make it work? It's funny some people actually buy that. The one thing about Van Gundy's comments that one game was what he said was absolutely true. He probably didn't need to bring up Tyrus Thomas/LeMarcus Aldridge.

It will be interesting to see how efficient an offense based on launching 3s is with DRose "feeling it". Really, how many guys on the Bulls roster other than perhaps McBuckets, and Dunleavy if he is even back, do you really think can hit 3s with much consistency?

The Bulls did fire Doug Collins and that turned out OK, but the rosters are different. I think if the Bulls were a little classier about the dismissal we all knew was happening months ago, it wouldn't bother me so much. Even if they are 100% sure Thibs was feeding stuff to Van Gundy, it isn't hard to take the high road, and they chose the low road.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2015 -> 12:24 PM) Pretty much everyone has a boss. When your boss asks you to do something you either acknowledge it or start looking for a new job. You definitely don't go try to publicly embarrass your bosses in as public of a matter as possible. Even taking into account the disaster that the front office of the Bulls has been at times, Thibs got what he earned. That is the popular opinion. The problem is we will never hear the cross examination. I think the slant towards Thibs deserved what he got, including the unnecessary jabs from JR, would be at least more neutral.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 29, 2015 -> 12:22 PM) I think the problem is the Bulls had one of the best front offices in the league at collecting talent and one of the best coaching staffs in the league as well. Blowing both of those up would be the bigger mistake as it would leave you starting 100% from scratch. Clearly this got bad enough that JR, who was one of Tom's staunches advocates, even got off the bandwagon and decided it was time. It seems like the reality was JR would have allowed the issues to continue to go together if things were kept internally better and probably more importantly if the players didn't start to grow weary of Tom. The player push back is a new thing that has come out in recent days. Considering Thibs was a known goner, I'm going to assume that is just players trying to placate the people who will still be here knowing that Thibs was out anyway. Cowley had an article the other day and he got from a player the exit interview was filled with stuff slamming Thibs. I will agree GarPax/ Thibs probably wasn't going to work anymore, but unless Pau can find another fountain of youth, and all these guys who get hurt every season stop getting hurt, the Mayor is going to bow out of the playoffs in the first or second round. I also think the Mayor to the Bulls is a done deal. I think they are leaking it is not to try to make it appear like this just came up, and everything everyone has heard the last 4 or 5 months is just a coincidence that it came true.

QUOTE (scs787 @ May 29, 2015 -> 12:18 PM) I've always, ALWAYS, heard it's important for the GM and coach to have a good relationship. Probably true, but how many times when that relationship goes sour, is it the coach that gets the boot? The Bulls won plenty when Phil and Krause didn't have a relationship. The roster will trump that. There was an article out today that said GarPax didn't like the idea of Thibs getting all the credit he was getting, and that is what ruined the relationship. If that's the case, and we will probably never know, perhaps the wrong party was asked to clean out their desks.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 29, 2015 -> 12:17 PM) Some of that is just having a deeper roster this year that wasn't as injury-depleted and refusing to use it. I can't be mad when Hinrich and Nate Robinson have to split time at PG because Rose is out. I can be more annoyed with Hinrich getting 20 minutes when there are other PG and Snell on the bench who have been moved out of the rotation. I can be annoyed when Mirotic starts off the playoffs completely out of the rotation for some reason we still can't explain. A GM shouldn't fire a coach for using the players he provided. Maybe it was a blessing but the Bulls struck out on Carmelo. They struck out on LeBron. They have basically struck out on every max contract free agent they went after. They got Pau. They also got Boozer. Also Mirotic was not 100% physically. He was really banged up.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ May 29, 2015 -> 12:08 PM) Don't the GM and president meddle by nature...? They build the roster. We've seen the opposite. When coaches get to meddle in GM affairs like Ozzie getting Kotsay over Thome. Supposedly Thibs was the biggest supporter of drafting McDermott as well. Coaches should coach. GMs should GM. That's how I see it. The Bulls PR department is doing a good job making Thibs the bad guy here, but if he was so horrible and played guys too much, why did he last 5 seasons? Why did he get a very lucrative contract extension which still has 2 years to go? You yourself are using a quote from a writer that stated he never got any info from Thibs as proof Thibs gave him info. Isn't it at least slightly possible the Van Gundy comments weren't coming from Thibs? He was speaking from common knowledge. We all knew the stories. The fact is GarPax hasn't yet shown they are any better at their jobs than the guys they fired. I hope someone with the Bulls realizes that.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ May 29, 2015 -> 12:05 PM) @cyclonefanatic: SOURCE: Fred Hoiberg to the Chicago #Bulls is not a “done deal.” Details here. #Cyclones http://t.co/CEvA4jUJft I still think if he has his pick of NBA jobs, picking the Bulls job is kind of crazy. One report I did read was that if the Mayor said no, Gentry would be the second choice, if he went somewhere else, Adrian Griffin would be the new head coach.

I doubt there are many coaches or managers that appreciate meddling from the GM and president of the team. If Hoiberg is going to be a yes man, I hope the Bulls higher ups have GarPax on notice that if the results are the same, it isn't the coach.