Dick Allen

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 03:11 PM) I don't know how the rest of it is even relevant, but the bottom line is the Sox have a history here to read. They have always been able to pay their middle of the order hitters a lot of money, and if they can't find one, they will get one off of the free agent market. Relief pitching, they have always tried to do on the cheap. I see no compelling reason to believe the Sox will sign Andrew Miller, even if they have met with him or inquired about him. The last time the bullpen was this bad was 2007. Although not as expensive as Miller, Linebrink and Dotel weren't exactly cheap for those years. KW signed them. KW has already announced he is done with rebuilding. The team friendly contracts they signed their best players to , allow them to spend a little more in other places. Whether it is Miller or not, there is probably going to be additions that they financially have never done before.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:57 PM) That conveniently ignores the contracts given to guys like Magglio and Konerko. The Sox haven't given ANY reliever (internal or external) a contract anywhere near what Andrew Miller is looking for. That is a HUGE difference. But it's the price of poker. Free agents get more money. Paulie took a little discount, but might not have had they not just won the WS. Guys are getting more expensive. If you want them you are going to have to pay or develop them just to lose them. They never gave anyone what the gave Abreu and he had never played one game in the major leagues. If they aren't willing to pay these prices, they won't get these players. It doesn't even make sense to speak with them. If they are engaged with Miller, I would think they are in the ballpark money-wise.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) The difference is the White Sox have both spent big in Cuba, and they have spent big on middle of the order hitters in the past. Up until they signed Dunn, then Abreu, the last time the White Sox spent more than $20 million on another team's free agent was in December of 1996. Albert Belle.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:11 PM) Are you sure about that? didn't they trade Adam Wainwright to the Cards? For one year of JD Drew who was awesome as a Brave. One season, 8.6 WAR. That is an MVP-type year. That trade was about the exact opposite of this one. In the long run, I don't think the Braves will be getting the fleecing on this trade some think. For a message board that loves a lot of everyone's crap, Shelby Miller sure does get written off pretty quickly.

I am kind of shocked. We were told Joe Maddon would attract free agents.

Heyward takes Taveras' spot.

Miller was a top 10 prospect no so long ago and still has done a decent job on the major league level and is controlled for several more years. I don't understand why some think this is a steal. The Braves usually don't make really bad trades.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 10:31 AM) Webb is a guy who just needs to start in a less intense role. Give him the 5th/6th maybe 7th inning work. Let him get his reps and earn a move up to the later innings. No reason to rush him. According to Soxtalk, it was just the opposite. The idiot manager didn't realize he had an 8th inning pitcher on his roster.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 10:33 AM) Miller is also going to cost around $40 million for 4 years, and he's been fairly inconsistent as well. It's no surprise that the White Sox have interest in Miller but if they ultimately sign him for $10 mill a year over 4 years, I'll be a bit upset. It's better than spending $7 million a year on Downs and Belisario.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 10:01 AM) This is legal. This is what the Astros have been doing with their prospects before bringing them to the majors. I am OK with it. The FA market is pretty strong at the top and then thins out very quickly. To me this is a situation akin to Byron Buxton being declared a free agent, yes there is some risk, but to acquire a star level player is worth more to me than taking a chance on some re-tread. With his talent level he could use one more year in the minors and then fill a hole on the roster for the next six years at a minimal cost over that duration. Yes it make take the Sox out of being as large of players in FA this season, but they will have the same amount of money to spend next year when they can go after an OF like Upton, Heyward, Cespedes, or Austin Jackson, and find a RHSP like Cueto, Latos, Fister or Gallardo to round out the rotation. I am totally fine punting FA this year as I think the team is going to need some time to develop SP this season as Noesi and Rodon try to take steps forward and they get another year to determine what they have in Beck, Johnson, and Danish and figure out the bullpen situation. It also leaves money free in case Shohei Otani is posted next fall. The other piece to remember is that the Sox will be saving ~$7M in the next two seasons in international spending, money which can be re-allocated to bringing in some additional bullpen arms. Many fans may be different but to me it is much more about acquiring assets that can keep the Sox competitive over the long term than a race to see when the Sox can be competitive. You might be OK with it, but if the White Sox are as broke as some here seem to think, they aren't going to spend all the cash they have for the next couple of years on a guy who is probably 2 or 3 years away from contributing. They cannot and will not punt these seasons. If you do that, you might as well trade Sale and Abreu. Then you would have the best system in baseball. If they can afford him and still throw money into the major league team, that is the only way they should consider him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 09:19 AM) I've still got nothing after looking through a variety of stats. We're not the worst in 9th inning ERA, we're just about as bad in the 9th as we were in 7th-9th, and in all cases not historically so, a couple teams were worse in every ranking. We're 6th from the bottom in fWAR out of the bullpen. Pretty much every stat you want, we're ~bottom 5, with the same teams about tied with us and the same teams worse than us. I know it's tempting to say this is the worst bullpen in history and all we have to do is moderately improve it and we'll be competing for the central but it's just not true. This was a bad bullpen, but not ridiculously so, and pretty much every stat says the same thing. A great bullpen would be a big boost but it wouldn't make this anywhere close to an 88 win team on its own. Why aren't you taking percentages into account? And if they were just as bad in the 7th inning, it shows the bullpen cost them when the game was tied or they were down a run or 2 but got blown out when a blown save wasn't recorded. The bullpen was horrible. The team won 73 games, but some of that was because guys like Wilkins were playing. If they were playing to win as much as possible after they were basically non contenders, it isn't inconceivable this team would have won 2 or 3 more. There needs to be several moves made, but a solid bullpen makes this team a lot better.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 16, 2014 -> 03:26 PM) I know it sounds like a nice easy thing to do, oh just don't blow 1/2 of those saves, but go a step deeper. Exactly 1 team in all of MLB had 11 blown saves or fewer - the Padres. Even the Royals tallied more blown saves than that. So to say yours a different way, "If their bullpen was replaced by a bullpen even better than the Royals, they'd have been above .500!". Does that put into context how truly huge of a jump that would require? You aren't taking everthing into account. Teams that win more games have more save opportunities. The Royals save percentage was over 80. The White Sox was barely 60. Oakland, Hoistin and Colorado were worse. And that is just save opportunities. No telling how many other games that were either tied or they were trailing by a run and might have been able to win except for bullpen failure.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 16, 2014 -> 01:58 PM) So there's no gameclock right now... 7:12 left in the quarter according to ESPN.

Except for the fumble hat he was lucky wasn't called and the unsportsmanslike conduct penalty, Cutler has been All Pro quality today.

A key penalty stops the Bears again.

That was a sweet play by Cutler.he has so much ability, but obviously his brain will always hold him back.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Nov 16, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) DA's "sources" are about as worthwhile as my inferences IMO, neither has any 100% ground in certainty. The Middlebrooks stuff is just hearsay. I don't believe that many FOs are operating by committee and I don't believe the Sox are either. Committees don't work because there is no accountability. The buck has to stop somewhere and I have a very, very, very hard time believing Hahn would operate without 100% full authority because as an up and coming, young executive it would be career suicide to hitch his wagon to a setup where he is the GM but doesn't have full authority. KW had about as much to do with the Abreu signing as Clay Davenport (as another voice saying HEY THIS GUY IS GONNA BE REALLY GOOD). Hahn negotiated the deal, just like he negotiated the Sale and Q deals. I never said my source was accurate but here are some quotes from the actual people that shows your scenerio is wrong http://chicago.sbnation.com/chicago-white-...e-sox-rick-hahn And here is one where KW says he has veto power http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/423...ess-of-being-gm And here is the detail of the Abreu signing. It was KW and JR. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/27118486-57...ml#.VGj2Zn5OKrU

Stupid penalties, check. Poor special teams, check. They get a huge break on a Cutler fumble (check)), yet it doesn't matter. Still a few minutes left in the first quarter. I really hope they either turn it around and win or get blown out again.

If the team who signs him has to pay a $40-50 million penalty when would that be due. And for the people with their eyes on the balance sheet, doesn't that eliminate the White Sox from consideration?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 16, 2014 -> 09:11 AM) Yeah, I was trying to guess in my mind what the Mike Stanton of 2027 would be getting as a free agent $40 million? $50 million? The opt out will take risk away.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 16, 2014 -> 07:31 AM) Frank Clark arrested for domestic violence. He missed one game for felony robbery. Will he be back for the game? Stealing laptops and beating up chicks isn't nearly as horrible as getting paid to sign things or doing bongs in your dorm room. C'mon man.

This is imeresting http://chicagosuntimes.com/sports/chill-th...rone-to-injury/

QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 15, 2014 -> 12:49 PM) It's worth bearing in mind that 13 years from now, $30 million per year is going to be the number that guys like Nick Swisher get Maybe, but the Cubs aren't cashing in on a TV contract, and that $2 million a game ship may have sailed. Of course 13 years from now, they will probably be making money off things we can't even think of now.

If he is ready to go in 90 days, is it the Cubs who are out? Supposedly the teams with the most people at his showcase were the Red Sox, Yankees, and Cubs.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 14, 2014 -> 03:17 PM) It really would be funny if they gave up 50 to Minnesota. We are to the point, since the playoffs are out of the question, where Bears fans can't lose. If the Bears win, great. If they lose, it's pure comedy for the next week.