Dick Allen

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 10:39 AM) When the top 3 relievers in your preseason depth chart are not on the active roster, that's gonna happen. That's why, if you think you have a shot at winning, you don't trade Addison Reed for Josh Fields Jr. People had no problem and still don't with the Sox getting rid of him. Yet now the bullpen sucks because Nate Jones and Matt Lindstrom, yes the same Matt Lindstrom some where doing cartwheels about when they found out he was hurt and would no longer be closing, aren't there. If Jones and Lindstrom were both healthy, and really, I don't know how in the world anyone can assume a pitching staff won't suffer numerous injuries, the Sox bullpen would still suck. Hahn knew it in spring training, but it was too late.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 10:25 AM) Oh c'mon DA, I expect more from you. How can you project them being this bad? Belly just simply doesn't belong in high leverage situations, and if injuries never happened he probably never sees those situations. Lindstrom was gonna be that RH set up guy, and based on how well he pitched last year and in the minors Daniel Webb probably was looked at ahead of Belly in those situations.....I still remember one of them fancy fangraphs articles that called Webb a future closer. We're also talking about a bullpen that was built for a rebuilding team. Like everyone continues to say on here it's the last thing you build. If Hahn looked into that crystal ball everyone expects him to have and saw that this team was a bullpen away from being in serious contention for a WC and possibly even an outside shot at the division I'm sure we'd be looking at a different pen right now.... You don't pay guys $3 million to not pitch in high leverage situations. The problem is there are so many pitchers on the team this board says do not belong in high leverage situations, which means there are one or two guys who do, and they cannot pitch in each of those situations. The bullpen is horrible. It's a bunch of scrap heap pick ups that didn't work out, and it is costing the White Sox at least a shot of trying to win the wildcard. I would bet everything I own, Rick Hahn doesn't use lack of luck as an excuse with some of these guys and bring them back next season.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 10:17 AM) A 53.2% LOB% is incredibly unlucky in the grand scheme of things. If you want one example, look at Arcia's 2 run double on Saturday's game. That entire play is De Aza's fault. He took a poor route, faced the wrong way, and as a result, had to adjust while going back and leap and he misplayed it, and somehow that is not an error on him. A good defender makes that play and "saves" two runs. Yet somehow, the official scorer believed that the 2 runs given up were Belisario's fault. Ask Angels or Blue Jays fans about Scott Downs. See what they tell you. That's a pretty poor argument. Belisario was fairly good last year and he's been mostly hit with one too many hits. I'd have no problem with him coming back. Gordon Beckham has gotten a bit unlucky. I don't see how that's relevant. There's also 2850 plate appearances worth of results to show that he's not a very good hitter and to expect change is insanity. I also am not a guy who feels that the Sox need to dump Danks, and you know that. An upgrade would be fine but it's not necessary. If they can get the right players, I don't mind them trading him. It also was unlucky for the hitter that ball didn't wind up in the seats. It was tatooed. Beli sucks, there are no 2 ways around it.

I think if Sierra got himself some Flinstones vitamins, he probably could be a star. If he stays clean, he is probably a guy if he played every day for a while you would probably have seen enough reasonably soon.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 09:22 AM) But it's mostly bad luck. Belisario wasn't bad last year and it seemed the Dodgers no longer wanted him because they had other guys coming in (meaning they were just spending as much money as they could on the bullpen) plus there were some concerns about his night life. He's been extraordinarily unlucky this year - a 53.2% LOB% is just about the lowest I've ever seen. Downs was a great reliever last year and he just couldn't find the strike zone with the Sox. Injuries are bad luck too. Why is it bad luck when players don't perform up to their last year's performance? The GMs job is to project. Why isn't Gordon Beckham's BABIP bad luck? Except for a nice stretch after the first couple of weeks, Beli has pretty much been awful. You either get the job done or you don't. Hahn picked the wrong guys. That's simple. I watched them tee off on the White Sox bullpen this weekend. There were a couple of dinks, but for the most part they were hitting ropes all over the place. Belisario had issues, but ask Dodger fans about him and you won't get many positives out of his performance. People can't wait to dump Danks' contract, yet look at Downs, Beli, Keppinger, Paulino, add up all that money and it's pretty close to what the are paying Danks or even Dunn and at least those guys contribute something.

It wasn't all bad luck. Downs was getting pretty old. Beli was a non tender, that's $7 million right there. Sure Jones may have helped. It was bad luck Lindstrom got hurt, but there were posts on here saying his injury was a blessing. Putnam got hurt, but his performance has well exceeded expectations. Petricka has been at least as good as anyone could expect, and the other guys were junk. Waiver wire pick ups or organizational arms like Rienzo who people get way too excited about. The good news is if you are a White Sox prospect and fancy at least starting your career in the bullpen, you have zero obstacles except poor performance or injury keeping you from a major league job.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 07:40 PM) 4-5 days ago I made a simple, one sentence, non-combative statement saying that Sox trading Addison Reed didn't help the bullpen, or if he were still here it would be better, or something like that, and I was promptly villified by 3-4 posters, 2 of whom are mods, basically insinuating that I don't know what I'm talking about, calling me a troll and that our bullpen is fine without him, even telling us what the Sox bullpen ERA is vs Reed's ERA, etc. etc. as if his 26 saves are irrelevant to the discussion, or words to that effect. The fact is the Sox bullpen imploded this weekend, and Reed had a scoreless inning today with 3 K's, not that that makes any difference. I still say Reed would have helped this team this year. A lot. I agree with you. I keep reading how below average Reed has been, but they have lost 3 games in his save situations. The Sox have already lost 6 games leading in the 9th. That is 3 games right there. Plus, everyone talks about Lindstrom and Jones being out made everyone else worse. Wouldn't that mean not replacing Reed made everyone else worse? Try not to take it too personally. It is just stubborn people who got too excited about some decent numbers put up in Reno and they don't want to admit they were wrong. Hahn made some great moves in the offseason. The Reed trade wasn't one of them.

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 07:11 PM) I'm not really on an anti-Guerra crusade, he's just the guy who screams "DJ Carrasco" in our pen. ie, seems to be over his skis, not great stuff, has been exposed to lots of MLB and MiLB and just doesn't seem that great. But this falls into what I was saying in the game thread, which is that our bullpen isn't stuffed with "worst" pitcher types, it just lacks "best" pitchers. Who do you go to when it matters? After Petricka, there are no obvious answers Thompson isn't exactly a super-duper exciting guy, but has been successful as a closer at every level - seemed like a guy who might have earned a longer shot at creating a valid sample size. With that said, if we're going to send guys down with options rather than cut boring vets like Guerra, Rienzo seems like the better candidate for that...and might be later this week when Putnam returns 24 or 25 year olds racking up saves in high A isn't really a sign of future major league success. I do agree there were other candidates that could have been sent down or even released, but Thompson off the roster is zero loss. Rienzo has to be next. They hardly use him.

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 06:45 PM) Guerra just being the guy with the least desirable mix of recent performance, track record, and potential development Coming into today's game, he had fanned 5 of the last 6 batters he faced and had 5 or 6 scoreless appearances in a row. His track record is at least as good as anyone else's, and certainly better than Thompson's.

Sox bullpen gave up 22 runs on 29 hits in 9 innings against the Lowly Twins this series. They did fan 10 so I bet their collective xFIP is a little lower than 22.00. Which is nice.

Garfien just hinted Garcia should be OK

If you think about it, Robin using Leury maybe shouldn't be thought of as running out of pitchers.

Make that 21. I think we are seeing why Rienzo is hardly used.

Sox bullpen has allowed 20 runs this series.

Concourse?

I believe every member of the Sox bullpen has given up a run this series.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 05:21 PM) It takes a great manager to understand the genius of batting the worst hitter on the team 2nd. Couple of hits yesterday, but you are correct, Beckham batting 2nd today clearly was the difference.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 05:24 PM) The loony notion that this sox team somehow is a contender should finally be put out to pasture. They've now lost home series to the Twins, Padres and Diamondbacks plus assorted other clear indications that this team is way short. I just wish it would have happened a week ago; perhaps the Sox might have been willing to do what needed to be done to bring some young talent in here (like selling high on Ramirez). What was being offered for Ramirez? Let me guess, you have no idea, but the Sox still should have traded him.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 05:14 PM) This man has got to go. He's absolutely destroyed the confidence of every member of our bullpen. By using them?

WTF Tank?

QUOTE (Baron @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 05:11 PM) I think they were counting on Belly to not relive his past....same with Boggs. But that went down pretty much as expected. It was also only a matter of time for Scott Downs. Hahn knew he was in trouble when he went after Francisco after Cleto. Todays relievers and how acquired: Guerra waivers Beli non tender free agent Thompson 44th round draft pick Surkamp waivers That is ugly.

BP at USCF

QUOTE (raBBit @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 05:04 PM) My response to the Belisario signing - "Hahn probably loves the fastball but if this Sox guy sucks he is going to be very easy to hate." He was on a roll for a while.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 05:02 PM) This has to be it for Belisario in a Sox jersey I would really doubt it. It isn't like they have someone else to replace him with. If Putnam and Lindstrom come back, Thompson is going to go and you have to think since they refuse to use Rienzo he will go back down as well.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 05:00 PM) What's your beef with Cooper? Team had an ERA below 3.00 when he was gone. They are getting lit up now. I have learned on this site that you have to blame coaches for poor performances.