Dick Allen

If Danks doesn't pitch a gem and gives up 4 or 5 runs, how many posts saying his days as an effective pitcher are over will there be?

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ May 29, 2013 -> 10:18 AM) See I would normally agree with you but I think the future is more important than rolling the dice on this season. Look at our middle of the order for Christmas sake. We're not far away IMO. We really have some pieces. We have tons of starting pitching, a couple pieces in the pen, a couple position players.... we just need to finish the job. A gigantic chunk of regular SoxTalk conversation is either 1) b****ing about how "going for it" at the wrong times hurts the organization, 2) b****ing about lack of sustained success, 3) b****ing about lack of organizational depth, 4) b****ing about fans not showing up, and 5) launching totally unprovoked veiled "baseball criticisms" i.e. character assaults on the likes of Kenny Williams, Mark Buehrle, AJ Pierzynski, and Hawk Harrellson. Now we can't do much about #5, but the other 4 we may actually be able to address at least in part by finishing the job and putting the future first by building around this core. And if we're going to do that we need to do it now. If the Sox aren't that far away, why trade guys like Peavy and Rios for prospects who are farther away, if they even get there at all? Even Marty said the rotation is shaping up. How long do rotations stay together? The time to try to win is while Sale's elbow and shoulder are intact.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 29, 2013 -> 07:45 AM) ROFL - SIGN JERMAINE DYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You live so much in the past. You're right Marty. The signing of Dye was horrible. They should have tanked the 2005 season rather than sign him. They could have seen what Borchard could do. You mentioned earlier Flowers catching is a sign the Sox aren't trying to win. Good news, Avila is worse than Flowers. The Tigers aren't trying to win either. ROTFL. I don't live in the past. I want the Sox to win. I enjoy White Sox victories a lot more than the opportunity to say how bad so and so is, how hopeless the situation is, how so and so has to be fired, how the White Sox don't deserve any of my money after they lose. That's one huge difference between me, the vast majority of people on this board, and you. I think you are the only White Sox "fan" and I use that term very loosely describing you, who is unhappy the White Sox signed Dye.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 08:55 PM) Can I have the players ages? Age means nothing when you talk about Viciedo.

One thing to keep in mind when trading someone because you don't think their value will ever be higher. It is a 2 way street. The guy you get may have inflated value as well. If someone here said the Sox could trade Peavy for the 2011 version of Jesus Montero, a lot of posters would think that was great. It would have turned out horribly. Casto and Molina are a couple of guys who have declined in value as well. The value that is most important is the value to the White Sox, and as long as the Sox are trying to win, trading Peavy will most likely backfire. Marty's best deal available may not be available for a year or 2.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 03:21 PM) How much money is that compared to the other teams in MLB? Don't have the slightest idea. But the White Sox generally spend money the public knows is available. They will be able to bid with anyone on any player they choose. That doesn't happen often. They will have as much payroll flexibility has they have had in our lifetimes.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 28, 2013 -> 03:09 PM) You think it's impossible to win a World Series next year with a rotation of Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, & Santiago? You honestly think there are no set of moves that Hahn could make to improve the offense enough to win a World Series? The Sox have about $20-30 million coming off the payroll and an additional $25 million to work with through the new TV package. It seems to me, some tinkering can be done. The Sox have won one WS in our lifetimes. I always get a kick out of the impossible to win a WS with so and so or so and so won't be on the next WS team as a reason to get rid of them. Using that critieria, the Sox should have traded Frank Thomas after 1993 or 1994, because the amount of postseason series won with Frank on the active roster was 0. Carlton Fisk was a waste of money signing. Amount of postseason series wins with Fisk as a White Sox...0. Dick Allen was a bad trade. No postseason.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 02:54 PM) You get the best trade possible and that's that. It's not like going down the 2014 free-agent list and saying I want this guy or I want that guy. How do you know the best trade possible improves the team even theoretically?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 02:10 PM) I think it's stupid to get specific on trades as none of us know the offers. When names start appearing I will give my opinion. Then it's pretty stupid to say they have to be traded if you don't have any idea what they can get back for them.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 28, 2013 -> 02:04 PM) If Phegley keeps hitting anywhere close to like he has, he'll easily be a top 100 prospect. He's a 25 year old catcher who is currently second in OPS in the International League. There's plenty of room for regression with him still being a great offensive catcher. The problem is no one really knows what to expect out of him going forward. He's never hit anywhere close to this good in his entire minor league career, but at the same time he was a 1st round supplemental draft pick because of his bat and he's been unhealthy for the last several years. Maybe he's finally at full strength and reaching his potential, or maybe this is just one long hot streak. Most likely it's somewhere in the middle, but the closer he is to the player we are seeing this year, the more likely he is to become a legit starting catcher in the majors. The real problem here is that we're still working with a small sample size. In a perfect world, you'd give Phegley another couple months in AAA to see if this is just a hot streak. Unfortunately, Flowers and the offense have been so bad, that we're almost forced to make the switch sometime soon. If this happens, hopefully Phegley starts off fast, because any struggles will make the decision on a starting catcher for 2014 even more difficult. Ideally, I agree. If the Sox wanted to make Phegley the #1 catcher in 2014, they should find out exactly where he is on the major league in 2013, and not just a September call up.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 28, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) Do we dare trust this organization with others' prospects unless they are pitchers? It depends, Gillaspie seems OK. But your point is well taken. If they are almost fully developed, they can escape the White Sox curse. Molina looks like a huge bust. Castro a bust, all the guys they got for Swisher, pretty much busts, the guys they got for Vazquez... Lillibridge, bust, Flowers, trending towards bust.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 01:51 PM) Trade value correlates very closely to on-field performance. That's part of the equation, but this isn't fantasy baseball. Guys get paychecks, and with the new rules with the draft, stud minor leaugers are going to be more difficult to pry away. You need to find a team that will take on the money that also has top prospects and who are willing to trade those prospects. Many times it is easier to do that with someone who has multiple years left on his contract during the offseason when they are formulating their roster. That is why if you don't know the offers, you cannot say their trade value has peaked. So you still aren't ready to go out on a limb and tell us what type of prospects the Sox should expect in return, just make it an auction, and best bid wins. No reserve. Correct?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 01:49 PM) It's best when you don't get specific. Smardijza is "hot garbage" ROFL!! ROFL is right. You really need to check out the original post he was referring to,. But good to take things out of context to try to stop the attention to the lack of specifics you post.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 01:46 PM) Really, it's preposterous to say well player A and player B is who I want back when no one is privy to the offers. Point is in wanting them traded is that their value will never be higher. If you don't know the offers, how do you know their trade value is at it's peak? And if you are running a baseball team, what is more important, value of a player to your team, or value of a player to someone else?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:36 PM) The only time I've known Dick Allen to be wrong is when he writes in specifics. Is that why you refuse to write in specifics? You may want to go back and look at what he is referring to anyway.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 28, 2013 -> 01:35 PM) Careful, you don't want to go too far out on that limb. He's set up for his Monday morning QB gig. If they trade them and it works out, he told you so. If they trade them and it doesn't work out, the Sox screwed up. There were better packages to be had. Ask him what they were, either crickets or "not my job".

There is ivy at USCF, and padded walls.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:56 PM) If they were "trying to win" Flowers and Jones wouldn't be on the roster and Danks would not get a rotation spot over Santiago. As Alex Lifeson would say, "blah, blah, blah...blah, blah, blah.."

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:56 PM) I work at IIT. I am hoping that the prices will drop heavily before the game starts so I can snag a ticket. We'll see. Just remember they go off 2 hours before game time. Sometimes those last 5 minutes or so are fun. You hit refresh and prices change.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:56 PM) But his defense has been significantly worse, and I still worry about him being a complete liability when having to face the powerhouse Tigers rotation for probably 14-15 games. Obviously. But I think everyone was fine with him as a back up. I don't know what happened defensively, my theory is he's not catching Peavy half his playing time, but he's been about as bad as his reputation when he was acquired. If he can get back to where he was defensively last year, he is a good back up who may go on a roll with power every now and then.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:54 PM) How's this for a hypothetical situation: - Flowers' miserable season continues, as he bats under .200 for the season and struggles mightily behind the plate - Phegley puts up an OPS around 1 in AAA for the full season Do the White Sox go into next year with a catching tandem of Phegley and Gimenez again, or does Phegley become the back-up and a starting catcher is acquired via trade or free agency? Something you really don't want to see happen is a repeat of what's happened so far this year behind the plate during next season with an inexperienced catcher being thrown into the starting spot with an inexperienced catcher at the back-up. Of course, if the Sox go into a full rebuilding mode, then who cares about how inexperienced they are. The funny thing is, Flowers is only 2 good games from meeting his offensive numbers last season while making more contact. Personally, I think he is a back up, and not a bad one. I don't know what the scouts actually think of Phegley's chances of success, but if they are trying to win next year, starting a rookie who isn't a top 100 prospect probably isn't the way to go. If it were me making the decisions, I would think Phegley would be trade material. Flowers has shown he can be a good back up, and a catcher would have to be acquired.

White Sox fans are the only fans in MLB that get mad at their team for trying to win.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:45 PM) I guess not since you can point out the problems but not the solutions in any specific terms. He doesn't know of any specific solutions or he would point them out. He actually asked me to be specific in another thread with a ROTF. He's just one of those dump everyone guys who actually gets a bigger kick out of the White Sox not winning than winning.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:06 PM) When the players are as bad as Flowers and Jones, the who replaces isn't the primary concern. Another non answer.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 10:50 AM) ROFL, you go ahead and wait on Nate Jones and Tyler Flowers. "Look, we developed a mop up man and a backup catcher, hoorray for us!" Nice no answer again. But once again, a couple of guys struggling, Marty is in his Soxtalk glory. When they go on a roll, Marty doesn't post at all. He loves when the White Sox suck.