Dick Allen

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 08:07 AM) In exactly 2/3 of the games that Napoli appeared last year, he played catcher. How exactly is he not a catcher? He won't do that again. Tom Seaver was a pitcher. He isn't one anymore. Besides, AJ signed before he did anyway.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 07:40 AM) Yet, AJ floundered for how long on the sidelines of free agency while other catchers were signed to multi-year deals. More AJ isn't any good and nobody wants him hyperbole. The catchers who signed were back ups like Laird and Ross. The only starting catcher who signed I believe, was Russell Martin. Napoli, who isn't really a catcher, has not signed.

QUOTE (BaseballNick @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 05:51 PM) I disagree. I don't think Robin or Coop trusted Thornton in high pressure situations last year and did everything they could to not put him in them. He made a career high 74 appearances, and it wasn't like he was pitching in the 6th inning.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 10:14 PM) I'd love to see a poll that asked MLB GM's who'd they rather have as their starting catcher going forward: AJ or Flowers. I bet most of you guys would be surprised. Hahn had the choice. He chose Flowers. Deal with it. For 2013, at the same price, the one surprised would be you. If AJ could be signed making what Flowers is making, Hahn would have chosen AJ. Letting AJ go was about money, not performance. If the Sox really thought Flowers was better than AJ, he would have played a lot more in 2012. Another thing AJ did was keep the back up off the field. I don't know if Hahn is serious about Gimenez, but if this means he gets 55 starts, you can't forget that as part of the downgrade.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 07:07 PM) We've already seen it. He was a bad defender, but last year he was brutal. He threw out more runners. He caught a bunch of rookies which made life hard. To me the Flowers love is based on an extremely small sample size of success and a lot of red flags. It kind of reminds me of the Josh Fields love in 2007 and the outrage when Joe Crede was the starter at the beginning of the season in 2008, and a little like the Lillibridge love last year. We will all see how Flowers fares,I just am real Leary about guys who have as much trouble making contact as Tyler does if he isn't going to hit 35 homers, and I don't think he can do that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 06:30 PM) Short sighted? When the argument involves one guy who had pretty good success past this age, I'd say the odds are pretty good for a break down. The point is eventually using age as the reason he will be worthless will be correct, but there is a pretty good chance he doesn't fall apart in 2013, considering there was no slippage in 2012. It will be interesting to see how Flowers handles the bigger workload and the higher expectations that come with it. There also is going to be another 15-20 extra games we will see the back up catcher. Giving AJ a one year deal was not very risky. What they do with the money is going to be the key.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 06:10 PM) Tyler Flowers had a .708 OPS last year in partial playing time. We got nothing close to that from our 3B last year prior to Youkilis coming on board. Plus Flowers is a much better defensive catcher. Most of us love AJ here, but he's not going to repeat last year and we need to see what we have in Flowers. IMO, this was the correct baseball decision. When Carlton Fisk was 35, a lot of people thought he was washed up. He lasted as a productive player for another 8 years or so. The odds are AJ is going to breakdown fairly soon, but to think he will fall apart next season based just on his age would be short sided. I have no idea what the Sox could have signed AJ for, but it was for one year and they are trying to win. Odds are AJ will out produce Flowers in 2013 plus we are going to be seeing a back up catcher play more often than we are used to. This decision should be judged by what they do with the money it would have cost to bing AJ back, sort of like the CLee deal.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 02:11 PM) What's the point of baseball if you're not even going to try? I've said this before and I'll say it again: bring out the monster trucks. US Cellular in 2013 + Gravedigger = match made in heaven. You have to be patient and remember, new GMs, no matter what they may say publicly, like to put their own stamp on the team. Hahn is going to make moves, maybe even more than KW would have made this offseason.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 12:53 PM) Hey Ricky, keep sitting on your eggs all day & pretty soon they're going to hatch. It's great how we've gone from under the radar to completely off it. I want Kenny back. This is like when Terry Ryan left the Twins & all hell broke loose. Where's my Kenny? Kenny, the joke is over. I miss you Kenny. We get it now, you really were the best, and your absence has made us all realize how great you were. Please come back. We need a real GM that isn't a-scared to make a move. And please don't shout back "Peavy" because that was all him; he left god knows how many millions on the table to stick around here. He made a bad business decision that is going to work out great for the Sox, but Peavy gets all the credit for that one. Keppinger is it for Hahn, time to pull the plug IMO. The season is over 100 days away.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 12:15 PM) Why do you make stuff about the messenger. You do this to most you disagree with. I'm not making anything up. You don't post unless you have a complaint. We all understand you hate Viciedo. I guess today, you wanted some more attention. You get it, and you complain some more.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 12:17 PM) You're all about the personal attack. Start the violins.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 12:14 PM) Alot of help I'm pretty sure he's just trolling today.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 12:09 PM) This exactly. The very nature of the Sox payroll dictates that these kind of players are going to be in the line up. Viciedo is 23, and has played one full season at the major league level Don't forget, Marty is the guy who said the entire season the Sox had no chance, they need to rebuild. Now he's blaming it all on Viciedo. He needs some help.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 12:11 PM) I did not suggest platooning Dunn. Really? QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 12:05 PM) Platoon Viciedo/Dunn and get a LF'er. I'm "hung up on" Viciedo because finding a platoon for him is the most cost effective way to improve the offense.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 12:07 PM) That's why they are a run-of-the-mill outfit. Why do you pay any attention to the White Sox if they bother you so much all the time?

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 11:37 AM) What does everyone think the chances are that AJ was cheating? There was an article where some of his teammates (who supposedly hate him) said there was zero chance AJ was on the juice. Supposedly, he is afraid to take any supplements. AJ is a big strong guy. He altered his approach. A little less contact, more home runs.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 11:23 AM) You often turn it to be about the messenger as if you're above the fray. Anyway, the Sox don't have the talent level to contend and rebuild at the same time. Missing the playoffs again because of Viciedo not being able to produce against right-handers isn't worth the time spent to develop him. Your posts are the most predictable posts. What should the White Sox do Marty? Try to contend or rebuild? Or would you just like to stay out of it so you can moan either way? And why are you taking what Viciedo did his first full year against RHP as what he will do forever. Granted he was 19, but look what Trout did against RHP in 2011. Then check out 2012. Viciedo is not Trout, but young hitters do get better.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 10:52 AM) Are the Sox contenders or rebuilders? If they are contenders I want the plan to be Viciedo sitting against RH'ers next year. If they are rebuilding move him to RF and see if he can handle it while you wait for his bat. Developing players means you have to play them and take the pain that learning curves bring. It is what makes them better. Robin Ventura sucked offensively his first year. Viciedo had a better overall offensive season than Magglio Ordonez had his first full year. Just remember, you are one guy that wants the Sox to totally rebuild, yet you can't take any growing pains without constantly complaining about it.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 10:32 AM) Playing Viciedo against right-handers the second-half of the season was the biggest problem (and easiest to correct) with the offense last year. I don't think it's a good idea to put a 24 y.o. who has not proven he can hit in LF. He should be put in RF until it becomes clear that he can't handle the position defensively and his bat develops in order to get max value out of him. What about playing some other guys who weren't hitting when the team collapsed in September? The only way Viciedo is going to start hitting RHP is to play against RHP. He was bad, but he did hit 16 homers with his .221 average. Since he hardly walks, if he hits .221 is OBP isn't going to be very good. I don't understand why Viciedo needs to be platooned if he's a LF but it is OK to develop him offensively if he's in RF. The Sox got some production in RF in 2012, and as much as you think Viciedo is trash, he did OK defensively and hit 25 homers.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 05:35 AM) You would think that but the economics of baseball is becoming more insane. With his buyout, Youk basically got his option picked up.

According to Forbes, the Tigers had $3 million more in operating income than the White Sox in 2011.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 03:11 PM) AJ/Fisk is an apt comparison. Both were anchors for the team a long time, and management has sought to replace/supplement both over that tenure. Not to mention, with the White Sox, their offensive numbers aren't all that different. The Sox wanted to dump Fisk when he was AJ's age in 1983. He did pretty well until he was 43 or 44.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 12:28 PM) Its funny that people want the Sox to load up on prospects, but don't want to let them get more than 15 minutes before they are busts. Well in 2 threads we basically have it all. If you haven't put up HOF numbers your first season, you will never amount to anything, and if you have put up good numbers your first full season, just remember Mark Fidrych. There is no doubt in my mind if Viciedo and De Aza had the exact same performance with another team, they would be far more highly regarded around here.

If you are used to playing one or the other, it might be a little more difficult to play the one you are not used to due to the different angle. Other than that, the throws are much harder in RF. You don't want a weak throwing RF. A good arm in LF is nice to have. A good arm in RF is a must.

According to Phil Rogers, the Sox are offering AJ one year $4 million. They obviously don't particularly care if he comes back.