Dick Allen

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 3, 2013 -> 09:05 AM) I wouldnt say Gannon and Johnson were ho hum before Gruden got to them. They both were pretty good QBs, he just took them to another level. Bruce Gradkowski was never at their level at any point. Jeff Garcia was on his last legs. I know his record after a good run wasnt that great, and i dont want to get into a long meaningless argument with you right now, but you are discrediting him far too much. Johnson was around for a couple of years after he won the SB. Brian Griese had a decent year there as did Chris Simms one season. His last 6 seasons after the SB win were bad. He did make the playoffs twice but lost in the first round both times. He also was under .500 several times. Every criticism that can be laid on Lovie in the 6 years since the Bears went to the SB can be said about Gruden during his last 6 years in Tampa. If Lovie ignored the offense, then if Gruden thinks he can win with Gradkowski, or Garcia on his last legs as you put it, he was ignoring reality as well. Why would this be any different? If Emery is in charge of the personnel, how come Lovie is getting blamed for the lack of talent on the offensive line?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 3, 2013 -> 08:34 AM) I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that in Oakland and the first couple years in Tampa, there was a GM doing the personnel job for him(in Tampa he was handed a team). Then he won the superbowl and all the sudden got personnel control and the teams went down the crapper. It goes back to our earlier discussion about Coaches getting control over personnel and how it rarely works out if ever. Gruden is a very good example of that. But that goes against the claim that Gruden took ho hum players and made them stars. If you are going to give him all the credit for Gannon and Johnson, he has a lot of blame coming. If he had the same results but Lovie's sideline demeanor, which I read described as looking like he's listening to smooth jazz on the sideline, no one would even talk about him. It's the end result that matters, not that your coach might have an annuerism on the sideline. The fact that he is the overwhelming choice among Ditkaphiles is a pretty good reason for Emery to cross him off the list.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Jan 3, 2013 -> 06:15 AM) Or Gruden who turned Rich Gannon into an MVP and Brad Johnson into a SB-winner and Pro Bowler. What happened the final 6 years of Gruden's coaching career? He didn't win one playoff game. And the offensive guru's teams were ranked in the bottom half of the NFL offensively. He's overrated. His sideline act, much like a certain coach of a certain team from a certain town than begins with a C, ends in an O and has HICAG in the middle, makes people think he's better than he is. In one of the Chicago papers a writer was saying just how bad Cutler's fundamentals according to NFL scouts have become. Supposedly they are now worse than ever. I'm sure some of it could be instantly corrected with a better line. If the Bears are willing to spend money, Holmgren should be the hire. He corraled Favre, he might be the only one who can coral Cutler.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 2, 2013 -> 12:35 PM) Hester's cap hit in 2013 is only $2.85 mil. It had been over $7.5 mil each of the last two seasons. Urlacher's was just over $9 million in 2012. Peppers cap hit went from $4.4 mil in 2011, to $12.4 this year, and will be $16.4 million in 2013. And its over $9 million if they cut him. I read an article in the Sun Times the other day saying the Bears had top 10 cap space without cutting or extending anybody. Something over $14 million.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 2, 2013 -> 07:54 AM) The wierd thing about guys who get the shift...a lot of times, they do spray the ball to all fields in the air, but it's only when they hit it on the ground that it is biased to one side. They had a similar shift for Baines, but the outfielders played him the other way.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 31, 2012 -> 01:46 PM) Ozzie Smith is in the Hall of Fame. Have you ever looked at his career numbers? He could steal and draw a walk - and that's about it. There were a few years where Ozzie Guillen was actually a borderline star in the league based upon his WAR. He was an incredibly gifted defensive shortstop. He also made a lot of contact and generally had great control of the bat. If Alexei Ramirez puts up another year like he did last year, he'll be well on the Ozzie Guillen path. His highest war with the Sox was 3.8, overall, his career WAR with the Sox is very similar to Ron Karkovice. I will say Ozzie was an elite Ss defensively until he hurt his knee in 1992. After that he was a replacement level player, although he usually would bear down in big situations and get some hits. I think he gave up more AB than any White Sox I have ever seen.

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Jan 1, 2013 -> 04:07 PM) Gruden won Rich Gannon an MVP and won a Super Bowl with a team Dungy couldn't, probably because Brad Johnson was the QB. He started going downhill when he got too much power and started drafting his guys. If he took this job, he'd know Emery would have last say in things. Gruden is a great offensive mind and he loves Cutler. Maybe time away from the booth would help him in today's NFL. 2002. Nothing since. If he would back off personnel decisions and just coach, and has the energy to do the job, Holmgren is a far better bang for your buck.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 1, 2013 -> 03:31 PM) Indeed, I believe he did. Yeah it doesn't appear to be something that is widely accepted. If GMs know about it, they probably don't consider it valuable enough to force their managers' hands. The thing I didn't mention before is that while the evidence is really strong that this is the best way to optimize the lineup, it also showed that the difference between how much a traditionally optimized lineup would score compared to a "sabermetrically optimized lineup" really isn't all that much. On average, I think the difference between a horrible lineup construction and the best was something like 2 wins, meaning that a traditional lineup is somewhere in the middle. So, there's a good chance that other factors like player morale and fan backlash actually outweigh the benefits of following this formula to the T. So, really there's no big reason to stress about the lineup in general, but I think it is interesting to point out that there's a lot of evidence to suggest that the 3 hole is the best place for Dunn in our lineup. If you've been frustrated thinking that a high average guy should be there (like maybe Rios), take comfort knowing that we're probably better off the way we've been doing it. Keep in mind Adam Dunn, despite leading the league in walks, from Memorial Day on, got on base around the same clip Gordon Beckham reached from that point. I read an article that he had the 2nd least productive season of anyone who has hit 40+ homers.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 1, 2013 -> 01:46 PM) "Emery said there's "a sense of urgency" to conclude the search as quickly as possible and ideally he'd like to "stand shoulder to shoulder" with the new head coach at the Jan. 19 East-West Shrine Game or the Senior Bowl, set for Jan. 26." http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=8799497 I think Emery knows exactly who he wants Jiggetts was talking about the urgency to get someone quickly. So many teams are looking for a coach, not only can you lose out on the best candidate, the top assistants will be scooped up as well.

The fan polls have Gruden as the fans" choice to take over. 45-51 his last 6 seasons as a head coach with 0 playoff wins. Don't ever underestimate what making faces on the sideline does for your popularity.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 31, 2012 -> 02:29 PM) Well the premise of my argument was can anyone name a longer tenured coach than Lovie Smith who had less ability to make personnel decisions. I think that the Emery/Smith situation was an aberration. Generally the GM hires the Coach, so the GM and Coach are on the same page from day 1. In this case you had a GM who was hired with a coach in place and told he cant fire the coach for 1 year. Thus if Emery didnt like Smith, he had every reason to screw Lovie so he could get rid of him. If Lovie makes the playoffs can they fire him? I doubt it. And since Emery seems to have wanted to fire Lovie, I cant help but wonder if last years draft wasnt a set up. Emery drafted guys that werent even healthy, how does that help a team that wants to win a Division Title? I don't think there is any chance that it was a set up, but it can at least have that appearance, especially if the reports today that Lovie needed a deep playoff run to keep his job are correct.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 31, 2012 -> 02:06 PM) Isn't it funny how scouts usually end up being GMs and not coaches? And when coaches do it becomes a miserable failure? There's a reason why GMs coming in usually get to hire their own coach. They hire a guy with a similar style, because those are the players and schemes they think will win games. That's where a coach GM relationship works. acutally I don't even know why i'm arguing this. Show me the situations where giving a coach more power over personnel has worked. It was the downfall of many great coaches. Parcells, maybe Vermeil, but it usually doesn't work. I think Emery started out as a strength coach.

I can understand people wanting a change, but with a year left on Lovie's contract, it is more reason to believe the Bears will go cheap with the replacement. If the Bears owed Lovie nothing, I think there is a better chance they would spend money getting the right coach. I also think any guy named Lovie who goes on to become an NFL coach, despite his public demeanor, must be a pretty tough guy.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 31, 2012 -> 01:26 PM) I saw them play Minnesota this season. Didnt hear it once I went to 4 games and probably heard it at least 20 times a game. They won a couple of them.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Dec 31, 2012 -> 01:26 PM) I'm surprised Rex Ryan didn't get fired. Pioli is the shocker to me. This guy has been pretty bad for a while. It must be nice to write off you constant mistakes on others.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 31, 2012 -> 01:24 PM) who said Lovie is stupid Spend a game at Soldier Field. Any time a Bear screws up you will hear an F--- you Lovie, you suck. Every. Single. Time.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Dec 31, 2012 -> 01:22 PM) ^^^ we'll probably want Lovie back If the Bears had beaten the Colts in the SB, I wonder if the fans would have had a different feeling toward Lovie. He has pretty much been hated for a good portion of his tenure.

If the Bears go 10-6 next year and don't make the playoffs, will that mean the new coach is as stupid as Lovie?

If Webb and Carimi are the starting tackles next year, I will wager the Bears will not win 10 games, and the offense won't be much better.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Dec 31, 2012 -> 10:41 AM) Yeah, I'd hate to hire the next Sean Payton. That's exactly the kind of guy they will hire. Judging from past history, and considering Emery has been with the Bears before, it will be closer to Tim Beckman.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 31, 2012 -> 10:01 AM) Ditka was not a good coach. That said, I don't give a rats ass that Lovie is calm. In fact, I kind of prefer that. I want Reid because the younger talent on the Bears is on offense and you have to evaluate Jay this next year. To do that, I want to know that you have brought in as good of an offensive mind as possible and Reid is as innovative and successful as it gets from the offensive side. The only teams that scored less points than the Eagles this year were Arizona, Jacksonville and KC. It would be the perfect Bears hire for more offense. They will wind up hiring an assistant with no head coaching experience because they are the Bears.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 31, 2012 -> 09:37 AM) So far Andy Reid(Eagles), Shurmur and Heckert(Browns), Gene Smith (Jaguars GM), Mike Tannenbaum(Jets) have lost their jobs Sources say Romeo Crennel loses his job and Scott Pioli keeps his, Norv Turner and AJ Smith both also lose their jobs Scott Pioli must have blackmail material on someone.

If Lovie is gone, I for one, will not be saying he was an "average" coach. Any coach that takes his team to the SB with Rex Grossman behind center is better than average. I just hope they bring in someone proven, or the Bears could be the KC Chiefs fairly quickly.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 31, 2012 -> 08:50 AM) The standard is the playoffs(and greater goal is the championship), not what the fans want. Neither goal have been met but once in the past 6 years, and there is one constant here and that is lovie. Emery needs to do what is right for the Bears and needs to rebuild an aging team into a playoff team again. That DOES include fixing the offensive line. Who here was screaming to dump Forte? Who here is saying Lovie is an idiot for wanting Bush? Go back to when Bush was signed, many wanted the Bears to walk away from Forte. There was a post earlier saying Bush was a signing Lovie had something to do with, and it wasn't a compliment. Who are they going to hire? Andy Reid? How many times has he made the playoffs lately? An assistant? These are the Bears. They will be paying Lovie next year if he coaches or not. Are they going to pay him and pay another guy big bucks to coach their team or will they go the cheap route? I'm guessing the cheap route. I'd rather be locked into Lovie one more year than the next Jauron or Wanne for 3 or 4. If they fix the line, Lovie gives them the best chance to win next year because of his defensive philosophy with turnovers. The defense is aging. When they stop getting turnovers, they lose. Lovie's teams take the ball away better than anyone.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Dec 31, 2012 -> 08:10 AM) Aren't there a lot of head coaches who find success with their 2nd coaching gig? I realize that the Bears don't hire head coaches with previous coaching experience, but maybe Emery can break that pattern if the price is right. If Rivera is let go in Carolina I would love to see him back with the Bears. He has not had big success yet and I would think that he would be a good candidate to blossom into a great coach. I don't believe that he would be that expensive yet either. Does anyone know if he burned any bridges (other than with Lovie) when he was let go before? I don't see where Rivera is an upgrade or a guy you want to make a multi-year committment. If the Bears fire Lovie, they need to hire a respected name who has won before, something they have never done , or this is all going to be re-lived a couple of years from now. It might even happen if they do that.