Dick Allen

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 11:43 AM) If we look at Detroit's record against the Sox from 2006-2008, we see a team with a .538 average winning percentage over those three seasons (87 win average) go 20-35 (.364) against the White Sox. What happened to their manager over those three years? Hasn't Detroit beaten the White Sox in 13 of the last 15 or something like that? The bottom line, whether its the manager's, players', owner's, GM's, fans' fault is if you can't beat your division opponents, you aren't going to have a successful year.

I do agree you see A LOT more of KW when the Sox are going well. I guess he just isn't Chicago tough when the losing begins.

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Jul 9, 2011 -> 03:46 AM) I think anybody that has ever had a job realizes the importance of management's attitude. I remember when I first started as an intern with the Blue Jays. Ricciardi (who was always nothing but super friendly to everybody in my experiences) had basically accepted defeat, both publicly and internally. I was essentially a fly on the wall, but it felt as though the entire office was spinning their wheels. Ricciardi got fired. My boy Anthopoulos took his spot. At his first quarterly union address he challenged the entire company to erase the self defeatist attitude. He argued the Blue Jays had once led MLB in attendance/payroll and could do so again. He argued that through proper management the Blue Jays could prosper once again. Almost immediately the mood of the office changed. I remained a fly on the wall, but the change in attitude was tangible. My point is...the attitude of leadership absolutely matters in the big scheme of things. Sometimes a change of voice makes all the difference. It seems like it was a nice speech, however, thel Blue Jays still don't draw very well. I will say this, I do agree with his premise. I've been saying for years if the White Sox spent as much time trying to figure out how to kick Minnesota's ass as they do kissing it, they wouldn't be in the quandry they are currently in. They just seem to accept the Twins are better than them, no matter what the standings or the line ups say.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 08:55 PM) No, there's not. It was supposed to be Chris Rongey's future predicted response in the post-game to complaints Ozzie made the wrong moves with Floyd and the bullpen. Guess I did a good job. You did. Its exactly how Rongey would respond, although I can't really say I can blame him. I'm sure he likes employment.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 08:45 PM) Wish there was a webcam on Kenny on that one... He's out getting JR's dry cleaning. He'll probably run into Cowley picking up Oney's.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 09:43 PM) Not with Alex Rios leading off. From what I've heard, Reinsdorf is really pissed off about Rios. Obviously at the way he's playing and the logic in taking on the contract. Signing Dunn is one thing, while his second half last season may have suggested a drop off, not to the extreme its been, but Rios.....................The scouting reports all were he didn't seem to care, and that's exactly how he's been playing for about a year now.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 07:44 PM) Wait, WTF...we moved Rios up to 5th in the order? Dunn 4th, Rios 5th. If the Sox score 3 runs or less, is it really Greg Walker's fault?

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 07:41 PM) Hawk needs to shut the f*** up about the Twins having our number. Hawk's incessant b****ing and moaning about it plays into the psyche of the fans saying it. The entire organization does what Hawk does, and has for years. If the attitude or mindset as Hawk likes to say doesn't change, neither will the results. The Sox have lost most of the games they have lost to Minnesota the past 4 or 5 years before the first pitch.

No need for the postgame press conference. I give you the jist of it now. [code] TIP YOUR CAP[/code]

Listening to Hawk, you would think the Twins are nearly undefeated this season. I guess they are at the games Hawk has attended.

If Pierre wants to tap Pavano's ass, he should wait until after the game.

With the bases empty and 2 out, I'd put Konerko on everytime until Dunn shows he can hit better than me.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 10:34 AM) The Walker defense is laughable. Who cares if he isnt "the cause", you arent going to change the entire lineup, therefore you HAVE to change something and thats the voice they hear on a daily basis. If you want the same results keep things the exact same. As it is, this team is not going to make the playoffs. What is the harm in changing a hitting coach? If they get worse, so what. if they get better, good. What's laughable is blaming Rios, Dunn and Beckham all on nothing but Walker. Everyone else from a hitting standpoint is doing about what you would expect or better. So if you're not going to change the line up, the most laughable thing would be expecting different results. See Einstein's definition of crazy or look at the Cubs. They changed hitting coaches a couple of times, finally hiring the great Jaramillo. The changed managers. They were stuck with the same core of players. The results are the same.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 06:20 PM) My girlfriend said yesterday, "Why don't the players just retire? Why don't they find better players? Why don't you like a better team?" This was after I had explained to her why I kept following a team that loses more often than winning....and how there were still 3 full months of games (and potential suffering) to come. It would be a very different game if the highest paid guys were making $3 million a year.

I read where Alex Rios is 1 for 28 with a runner on 3rd base and he's 0-17 with a runner on 3rd base with less than 2 out.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 10:00 PM) Well, that's a short list. Chris B. Young and Michael Morse never even worked with Greg Walker, except for Spring Training. Walker didn't "DO" anything to Jeremy Reed or Jeff Abbott and many of the other 53 "TOP 30" Sox minor league prospects who were traded and busted in other organizations. Chris Carter and B. Allen haven't lit the world on fire as projected by some. Cynics would argue that those players didn't have the opportunity to have their swings ruined. Sweeney has turned out to be exactly what many thought he would be....more of a 4th outfielder, as the power still hasn't developed that was projected based on his swing, height and frame. It's not the players that have left....it's the famous (or infamous) cases of Borchard, Brian Anderson, Getz (who's basically the same exact 600-625 OPS guy he was in Chicago)Josh Fields, etc. So you can blame Walker or you can blame KW for not seeing the holes in their games and approaches from the very beginning. And that's a legitimate point. Maybe there was such a dearth of talent in our system that Brent Morel HAD TO BE a top minor league prospect, whereas in other systems he would have been outside the TOP 10. Aforementioned prospect fails to meet "expectations" based on his ranking and it's easier to blame on Walker than Kenny. Because if someone's actually talented and a "good baseball player," there has to be an explanation for their failures, logically. Really, 90% of the angst is about Beckham. If Viciedo succeeds, it will because Walker wasn't allowed to ruin him or change his approach....he came up "big league ready" and Walker didn't need to make a single adjustment. Yet those same people say Walker makes negative adjustments daily with veteran hitters making $15 million a year. The old Walker if you succeed Walker had absolutely nothing to do with it. If you fail, its because he ruined you. The fact remains, as you pointed out, the hype really hasn't matched the reality with White Sox hitters recently. Lee and Maggs were pretty good. Walker didn't "ruin" them.

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:51 PM) I disagree about our lineup. If our guys are performing to their career averages (or in the case of our younger players like Beckham or Morel, performing to reasonable expectations) we have a lineup with very few holes. I'd say Ramirez, Quentin, Konerko, AJ, Pierre are all hitting at or better than expectations. I'd say Morel is doing what rookies do. Beckham struggling. Dunn struggling. Rios struggling, but doesn't seem to care and is a guy another team gave away. Lillibridge, much better than expectations. Castro, about what can be expected Vizquel as good or better than can be expected. Teahen too small a sample size really weak average but has hit a couple of homers so I'd say as expected.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:48 PM) Having worked in a public/"inner city" high school for four quite painful years, there's just that "institutionalized group think" that 1) it's been tried in the past, 2) other school districts tried similar reforms, 3) it doesn't matter, the superintendent who came in to reform the schools will be gone and everything will change "back to normal" eventually. In the process of becoming cynical and apathetic about change, NOTHING EVER CHANGES. This current administration with KW, Ozzie and the coaching staff just seems to have grown stale. It's pretty obvious they need a fresh approach, a new outlook, a rallying point for everyone to believe in. Whatever you want to call it, a vision or mission statement. I know the D-Backs get cited a lot, but the coaching staff over there has instilled the idea that "other teams might be more talented, but we're not going to lose games because we don't hustle. We're going to come out and put pressure on the opponent, make them beat us....and in the process, more often than not, they'll make mental/physical mistakes and we'll get some wins that could have gone either way." It's another way of restating the "Twins Way." It's not even whether Walker or Guillen or KW are "nice persons" or "good at their jobs," it just FEELS like the time for a change has arrived. I agree with this, except for maybe Ozzie, getting rid of one guy does nothing. Either clean house or keep everything the same.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:43 PM) Total bull. A guy toting assumptions, cop-outs and excuses as an argument is not a person with logic on his side; that is NOT logic. It is, in fact, the very opposite. If the hitting coach is responsible for nothing, then every team may as well cut theirs and free some payroll. So then you willingly admit Cooper is not AT ALL responsible for any success any of our pitchers have had. Is he responsible for any of the failure? If Daniel Hudson were a hitter and hit like he pitched for the Sox last season, all the Walker bashers would have used Hudson's success after he left as proof Walker had to go. Just start naming the hitters that leave the White Sox and all of a sudden start hitting. I found one guy in the 8 years Walker has been the hitting coach and he didn't work with Walker. Nick Swisher. That is it. Some have had success, but they had the same success under Walker. No one became appreciably better like everyone thinks every White Sox hitter will be once Walker leaves and they are all sprayed with pixie dust.

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:40 PM) He's the hitting coach. He is directly responsible for the offensive woes. That's pretty much his job description. If the personnel was in place to be a real great offensive team, I would agree with you, but again look at the line up. It would be like judging the manager of the Pittsburgh Pirates the past 20 years on the win loss record.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:18 PM) Overperforming: Konerko, AJ, Lillibridge until 3 weeks ago As expected: Quentin, Ramirez, Vizquel, Castro Underperforming: Teahen, Morel, Beckham, Dunn, Rios, Pierre (I was tempted to put him in "as expected" but just can't because of defense and dubious SB/CS totals) But for what everyone would blame Walker for, Pierre is performing as expected. Teahen doesn't play, Morel is a rookie. Its Beckham, Dunn and Rios. Beckham, maybe you can blame that on Walker, but I think its a cop out. What's amazing is in a roundabout way, Walker's biggest detractors actually make him out to be quite an influence. They actually think Sox hitters do exactly as he says. They must think Walk gets a kick out of reading about the calls for his head all the time.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:35 PM) *SIGH* So because maybe TWO guys are hitting really well that means the coach should be glorified for that... but the rest of the guys being abysmal should be overlooked? Meanwhile, SO hilarious how a lot of people's SOLE LOGIC for not trying a new coach when things OBVIOUSLY aren't working is, "I don't think it will make a difference." Worst argument ever. And being "liked and well respected" doesn't mean the man is good at his job. And even FURTHER, who is gonna come out and say, "Yeah, our hitting coach sucks" if he thinks so? GMAFB. Nothing but cop-outs and excuses on the other side of this argument. When things don't work, eventually you need to make a change. And regardless of future results, it still doesn't change the fact that at that present time a change needed to be made. But to hell with logic. Logic is on my side. Firing a guy not responsible for the woes of the team accomplishes nothing.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:26 PM) So basically once again the best defense for Walker is trying to deflect the blame for him. The argument goes that nothing will change, and perhaps that's even right, so what the hell is wrong with getting rid of walker then? As long as the roster remains the same, so will the ultimate results. Placing the blame where it shouldn't accomplishes nothing. As long as Juan Pierre leads off, Brent Morel hits second, and the current version of Adam Dunn hits third and Alex Rios not interested, IT DOESN"T MATTER WHO THE f*** THE HITTING COACH IS, YOU AREN"T GOING TO SCORE MANY RUNS.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:02 PM) I think a lot of it's the concern that even players like B. Lillibridge fashion themselves home run hitters and never bother to adjust their swings based on the count or situational hitting. Brent is an example of a player whose "progress" up until recently would seem to be a feather in Walker's hat. But his lack of contact with the bases loaded in recent weeks and his immense struggles against RHP has set off alarm bells. The players like Morel or Vizquel who try to do things the right way have almost zero pop in their bat, same with Juan Pierre. Or I guess some will blame the lack of pop out of Morel on Walker, too. And then there's the horrid hitting with RISP over the last couple of weeks. We've had a couple of huge comeback wins, but more recent teams like 05-06-08 and last year during the streak, you absolutely expected them to get a base hit. Of course, it's contagious. Listening to games, you're afraid when they get runners to 2nd and 3rd with less than 2 outs (or bases loaded) that they're more likely to be 0 or 1 runs than 2+. Somehow, that "fail fail fail" mindset needs to be erased from their minds and reset back to 0. Especially against the Twins. Wasn't Rudy Jaramillo the standard for hitting coaches? How are the Cubs hitting with RISP? Leo Mazzone was a guy who got a lot of credit in Atlanta, even more than Cooper got in Chicago. He left for more cash in Baltimore, suddenly he didn't have talented pitchers with decent brains in their heads and he's out of baseball. If the Sox fire Walker or he quits, Soxtalk will be wanting to replace the new guy in a month unless the personnel changes.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 08:13 PM) 182 bucks for one run and boring slow pitching by Edwin. Literally not one offensive highlight. I really think Adam Dunn sucked the life out of this team. And Rios to loaf day in and day out and get paid that kind of money with no accountability set a bad tone as well. For Ozzie, Kenny or whomever to not make ANY changes in a season they deemed ALL IN is like you say, enough to make one sick. Losing 2 out of 3 to KC at home is even more sickening when you look at KCs record the last 80 to 100 road games. Its almost unbelievable.