Dick Allen

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 10:00 PM) Well, that's a short list. Chris B. Young and Michael Morse never even worked with Greg Walker, except for Spring Training. Walker didn't "DO" anything to Jeremy Reed or Jeff Abbott and many of the other 53 "TOP 30" Sox minor league prospects who were traded and busted in other organizations. Chris Carter and B. Allen haven't lit the world on fire as projected by some. Cynics would argue that those players didn't have the opportunity to have their swings ruined. Sweeney has turned out to be exactly what many thought he would be....more of a 4th outfielder, as the power still hasn't developed that was projected based on his swing, height and frame. It's not the players that have left....it's the famous (or infamous) cases of Borchard, Brian Anderson, Getz (who's basically the same exact 600-625 OPS guy he was in Chicago)Josh Fields, etc. So you can blame Walker or you can blame KW for not seeing the holes in their games and approaches from the very beginning. And that's a legitimate point. Maybe there was such a dearth of talent in our system that Brent Morel HAD TO BE a top minor league prospect, whereas in other systems he would have been outside the TOP 10. Aforementioned prospect fails to meet "expectations" based on his ranking and it's easier to blame on Walker than Kenny. Because if someone's actually talented and a "good baseball player," there has to be an explanation for their failures, logically. Really, 90% of the angst is about Beckham. If Viciedo succeeds, it will because Walker wasn't allowed to ruin him or change his approach....he came up "big league ready" and Walker didn't need to make a single adjustment. Yet those same people say Walker makes negative adjustments daily with veteran hitters making $15 million a year. The old Walker if you succeed Walker had absolutely nothing to do with it. If you fail, its because he ruined you. The fact remains, as you pointed out, the hype really hasn't matched the reality with White Sox hitters recently. Lee and Maggs were pretty good. Walker didn't "ruin" them.

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:51 PM) I disagree about our lineup. If our guys are performing to their career averages (or in the case of our younger players like Beckham or Morel, performing to reasonable expectations) we have a lineup with very few holes. I'd say Ramirez, Quentin, Konerko, AJ, Pierre are all hitting at or better than expectations. I'd say Morel is doing what rookies do. Beckham struggling. Dunn struggling. Rios struggling, but doesn't seem to care and is a guy another team gave away. Lillibridge, much better than expectations. Castro, about what can be expected Vizquel as good or better than can be expected. Teahen too small a sample size really weak average but has hit a couple of homers so I'd say as expected.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:48 PM) Having worked in a public/"inner city" high school for four quite painful years, there's just that "institutionalized group think" that 1) it's been tried in the past, 2) other school districts tried similar reforms, 3) it doesn't matter, the superintendent who came in to reform the schools will be gone and everything will change "back to normal" eventually. In the process of becoming cynical and apathetic about change, NOTHING EVER CHANGES. This current administration with KW, Ozzie and the coaching staff just seems to have grown stale. It's pretty obvious they need a fresh approach, a new outlook, a rallying point for everyone to believe in. Whatever you want to call it, a vision or mission statement. I know the D-Backs get cited a lot, but the coaching staff over there has instilled the idea that "other teams might be more talented, but we're not going to lose games because we don't hustle. We're going to come out and put pressure on the opponent, make them beat us....and in the process, more often than not, they'll make mental/physical mistakes and we'll get some wins that could have gone either way." It's another way of restating the "Twins Way." It's not even whether Walker or Guillen or KW are "nice persons" or "good at their jobs," it just FEELS like the time for a change has arrived. I agree with this, except for maybe Ozzie, getting rid of one guy does nothing. Either clean house or keep everything the same.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:43 PM) Total bull. A guy toting assumptions, cop-outs and excuses as an argument is not a person with logic on his side; that is NOT logic. It is, in fact, the very opposite. If the hitting coach is responsible for nothing, then every team may as well cut theirs and free some payroll. So then you willingly admit Cooper is not AT ALL responsible for any success any of our pitchers have had. Is he responsible for any of the failure? If Daniel Hudson were a hitter and hit like he pitched for the Sox last season, all the Walker bashers would have used Hudson's success after he left as proof Walker had to go. Just start naming the hitters that leave the White Sox and all of a sudden start hitting. I found one guy in the 8 years Walker has been the hitting coach and he didn't work with Walker. Nick Swisher. That is it. Some have had success, but they had the same success under Walker. No one became appreciably better like everyone thinks every White Sox hitter will be once Walker leaves and they are all sprayed with pixie dust.

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:40 PM) He's the hitting coach. He is directly responsible for the offensive woes. That's pretty much his job description. If the personnel was in place to be a real great offensive team, I would agree with you, but again look at the line up. It would be like judging the manager of the Pittsburgh Pirates the past 20 years on the win loss record.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:18 PM) Overperforming: Konerko, AJ, Lillibridge until 3 weeks ago As expected: Quentin, Ramirez, Vizquel, Castro Underperforming: Teahen, Morel, Beckham, Dunn, Rios, Pierre (I was tempted to put him in "as expected" but just can't because of defense and dubious SB/CS totals) But for what everyone would blame Walker for, Pierre is performing as expected. Teahen doesn't play, Morel is a rookie. Its Beckham, Dunn and Rios. Beckham, maybe you can blame that on Walker, but I think its a cop out. What's amazing is in a roundabout way, Walker's biggest detractors actually make him out to be quite an influence. They actually think Sox hitters do exactly as he says. They must think Walk gets a kick out of reading about the calls for his head all the time.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:35 PM) *SIGH* So because maybe TWO guys are hitting really well that means the coach should be glorified for that... but the rest of the guys being abysmal should be overlooked? Meanwhile, SO hilarious how a lot of people's SOLE LOGIC for not trying a new coach when things OBVIOUSLY aren't working is, "I don't think it will make a difference." Worst argument ever. And being "liked and well respected" doesn't mean the man is good at his job. And even FURTHER, who is gonna come out and say, "Yeah, our hitting coach sucks" if he thinks so? GMAFB. Nothing but cop-outs and excuses on the other side of this argument. When things don't work, eventually you need to make a change. And regardless of future results, it still doesn't change the fact that at that present time a change needed to be made. But to hell with logic. Logic is on my side. Firing a guy not responsible for the woes of the team accomplishes nothing.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:26 PM) So basically once again the best defense for Walker is trying to deflect the blame for him. The argument goes that nothing will change, and perhaps that's even right, so what the hell is wrong with getting rid of walker then? As long as the roster remains the same, so will the ultimate results. Placing the blame where it shouldn't accomplishes nothing. As long as Juan Pierre leads off, Brent Morel hits second, and the current version of Adam Dunn hits third and Alex Rios not interested, IT DOESN"T MATTER WHO THE f*** THE HITTING COACH IS, YOU AREN"T GOING TO SCORE MANY RUNS.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:02 PM) I think a lot of it's the concern that even players like B. Lillibridge fashion themselves home run hitters and never bother to adjust their swings based on the count or situational hitting. Brent is an example of a player whose "progress" up until recently would seem to be a feather in Walker's hat. But his lack of contact with the bases loaded in recent weeks and his immense struggles against RHP has set off alarm bells. The players like Morel or Vizquel who try to do things the right way have almost zero pop in their bat, same with Juan Pierre. Or I guess some will blame the lack of pop out of Morel on Walker, too. And then there's the horrid hitting with RISP over the last couple of weeks. We've had a couple of huge comeback wins, but more recent teams like 05-06-08 and last year during the streak, you absolutely expected them to get a base hit. Of course, it's contagious. Listening to games, you're afraid when they get runners to 2nd and 3rd with less than 2 outs (or bases loaded) that they're more likely to be 0 or 1 runs than 2+. Somehow, that "fail fail fail" mindset needs to be erased from their minds and reset back to 0. Especially against the Twins. Wasn't Rudy Jaramillo the standard for hitting coaches? How are the Cubs hitting with RISP? Leo Mazzone was a guy who got a lot of credit in Atlanta, even more than Cooper got in Chicago. He left for more cash in Baltimore, suddenly he didn't have talented pitchers with decent brains in their heads and he's out of baseball. If the Sox fire Walker or he quits, Soxtalk will be wanting to replace the new guy in a month unless the personnel changes.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 08:13 PM) 182 bucks for one run and boring slow pitching by Edwin. Literally not one offensive highlight. I really think Adam Dunn sucked the life out of this team. And Rios to loaf day in and day out and get paid that kind of money with no accountability set a bad tone as well. For Ozzie, Kenny or whomever to not make ANY changes in a season they deemed ALL IN is like you say, enough to make one sick. Losing 2 out of 3 to KC at home is even more sickening when you look at KCs record the last 80 to 100 road games. Its almost unbelievable.

What would the realistic expection for improvement be if Walker were to be replaced? I just find some of the argument laughable. Yesterday someone said Walker tells them to take fastballs down the middle, then said it was Walker's fault when they "just miss" cookies. If a guy can't hit a "cookie" no one is going to make him a major league hitter. Go through the line up. AJ is hitting about .290 with limited power. Who will get him to improve. Konerko having a MVP type season. A new hitting coach makes him Albert Pujols? Beckham-struggling. His swing has to get shorter, and I think it will, but many of the same people who will blame Walker for his struggles are already calling him a bust and want to dump him. Ramirez, doing what he always does which was a lot better than most scouts thought when the Sox signed him. Morel-no power, doesn't get on base, but a rookie, may improve. Pierre, nearing the end of the line. Always streaky, a new hitting coach will make him better? Rios- total headcase. Toronto happily dumped him. Sucked for the Sox except for first half of 2010 when he was outstanding. Seems to not care. Is pinning his lack of success on Walker fair? Quentin-doing a lot better than a lot of people calling for Walker's head thought he would do. Dunn-easily the worst power hitter in baseball so far this season. Thought he may be out of it with a single that I'm sure if you asked the RF, he would have told you he should have caught, and an obviously wind aided HR Monday night. He's back to looking horrible. Does a new voice turn him around? I don't see how a hitting coach could have that much negative effect on a player, especially if he's well liked and respected like Walker is. I just look at the teams that people mention fire coaches and don't see a huge jump in performance afterward. I think we should be concentrating the blame on the players rather than a hitting coach.

If KW got Beachy for Juan Pierre, he would deserve a lifetime contract. That is not going to happen.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 04:49 PM) I'm in complete agreement. It's been a chore watching/following the games this season. Even when we win it's barely satisfying. They have been a pretty boring team to watch. Hopefully that changes soon.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 05:22 PM) http://mlb.mlblogs.com/2011/07/06/white-so...antas-pitchers/ Mark Bowman of mlb.com seems to think the Sox are definitely scouting Atlanta's pitching but he hints that the Braves would be more interested in Pierre than Quentin. What? God I hope it's Rios that they are interested in. The Sox couldn't give Alex Rios away. I hear the Chairman is actually one of Alex Rios' biggest critics. I wonder if that's why Ozzie chose to bench him when he loafed for the 10,000th time while giving all the other loafers a pass.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 05:53 PM) I hope you are suggesting they are trying to find a creative way to get Viciedo on this team, and not that they would trade him, because I would scream like a child. KW gets stiffer wood looking at Viciedo than any other White Sox property. He wants him in Chicago. If he can get a great return for Quentin, I think he would it. It will save him money next year and using the old CLee trade formula, the trade would actually be whatever they get for Quentin plus Viciedo. I also think other factors would have to be involved like Dunn and some others picking it up a bit so not all the pressure to improve the offense is put on Viciedo with CQ gone. CQ is a weird guy. Who knows, maybe it wears on the clubhouse. I wouldn't give him away though. He can still hit, and he's playing a lot better in RF.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 08:19 AM) Wow. There must be something behind the scenes we don't know about. Dayan Viciedo

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 12:41 PM) Firing Greg Walker would not be the sign of a panicked team. It would be a sign of a team that is tired of whatever institutional group-think that goes on to have our guys always watching first pitch fastball right down the middle for strike one, then swing and some out-of-the-zone garbage pitch for strike two. The same sort of thinking that seems to have our hitters rarely blasting on that 'cookie' that all pitchers throw once in a while. So tired of hearing 'Dang gummit, he got a cookie and just got under it'. I don't know that Greg has done ANYTHING good, but there sure are a lot of bad things going on. So you are saying they don't swing at first pitch fastballs so that's a problem, but can't handle cookies? LMAO. Most of the time when a pitching or hitting coach get replaced, the results remain the same at least as long as the players remain the same. One exception was Cleveland when they fired Eddie Murray, but Tribe players hated him. Another would be when the Sox fired Gary Ward, another players hated. The results improves almost immediately when Greg Walker took his place. Blaming a hitting coach because a major leaguer doesn't blast a hanger is laughable, especially if you also blame him for players taking pitches. BTW, Alex Rios isn't letting many first pitches go lately.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 4, 2011 -> 09:50 PM) The only reason I know what was called is because of what Hawk and Stone pointed out. It was really a slight move, I watched the replay and still thought it was iffy. One of those that if the opposition does it, Hawk sees its clearly a balk, but if it were a White Sox pitcher, he'd think its BS? Something did seem off when it happened. It was academic. Dunn would have drove home AJ anyway.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 4, 2011 -> 09:44 PM) he leaned forward like he was going into his set, then stepped off Whatever he did, try trying to explain a balk to your wife. I think I'd rather go to the ballet with her.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 4, 2011 -> 09:07 PM) With a runner on base and the pitcher on or astride (with one leg on each side of) the rubber, it is a balk[2] when the pitcher: switches his pitching position from the windup to the set (or vice versa) without properly disengaging the rubber; while on the rubber, makes a motion associated with his pitch and does not complete the delivery; when pitching from the set position, fails to make a complete stop with his hands together before beginning to pitch; throws from the mound to a base without stepping toward (gaining distance in the direction of) that base; throws or feints a throw from the rubber to an unoccupied base, unless a play is imminent; steps or feints from the rubber to first base without completing the throw; delivers a quick return, a pitch thrown right after receiving the ball back, with intent to catch the batter off-guard; drops the ball while on the rubber, even if by accident, if the ball does not subsequently cross a foul line; while intentionally walking a batter, releases a pitch while the catcher is out of his box with one or both feet (rarely enforced); unnecessarily delays the game (rarely enforced); pitches while facing away from the batter; after bringing his hands together on the rubber, separates them except in making a pitch or a throw; stands on or astride the rubber without the ball, or mimics a pitch without the ball; or throws to first when the first baseman, because of his distance from the base, is unable to make a play on the runner there. I was at the game and when I saw him go to the full wind up something seemed wrong, then the home plate umpire started jumping up and down pointing. It didn't look like he stepped off when he switched. Was that what he called?

Dunn tipping his cap after the single was classic. Rios sucks. Viciedo in LF and RF and DH. Lillibridge in CF, work everyone else in except let Alex rot on the bench.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 4, 2011 -> 03:20 PM) Is this game really at 6 p.m.? If Mark works fast and Francis mows us down, this game could be over by 8:15 which would mean a long wait for fireworks. There was a regular Saturday night fireworks game about this time of year several years ago where Buehrle had it done in less than 2 hours. They started the fireworks show while it was light out. In fact it still was light when the show was over. Vendors do not like Mark Buehrle.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 4, 2011 -> 02:52 PM) ROYALS (34-50, 11-26 away) Maier - LF .311 Cabrera - CF .283 Butler - DH .298 Francoeur - RF .262 Hosmer - 1B .274 Pena - C .248 Moustakas - 3B .290 Escobar - SS .253 Getz - 2B .263 Francis - LHP (3-9, 4.79 ERA) SOX (42-43, 19-20 home) Lillibridge - LF .257 Morel - 3B .253 Dunn - DH .165 Konerko - 1B .317 Quentin - RF .253 Ramirez - SS .275 Rios - CF .218 Castro - C .222 Beckham - 2B .241 Buehrle - LHP (6-5, 3.65 ERA) Why the hell is Dunn in the lineup batting 3rd against a LHP?! Ozzie's the f***ing manayer, he make out the f***ing line up.,if you don't like how he make out the line up go root for another f***ing team, motherf***er. I'm quoting how I believe Ozzie would respond to your question. It makes little sense, but if Dunn has a big game, Ozzie will be considered a genius.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jul 4, 2011 -> 01:22 PM) There are more variables than just Dunn. Last year 2/5 of the starting pitchers were the worst in the league for about 2 months. Yes, but the point remains one guy can make a difference.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 4, 2011 -> 11:38 AM) I fundamentally disagree with this mentality, sorry. Of course, one guy can't plug 4-5 black holes in a lineup, but incrementally, one player CAN make the difference between a few close losses and a few close wins. This division figures to be CLOSE, and those few games may well make the difference. Rongey tried to sell the point that one player wouldn't make a difference. Really Chris? What was his reaction when the Sox signed Adam Dunn? I doubt its only one player he really can't make a difference. People who think one player won't make a difference need to ask themselves if the Sox would be any better off now if Adam Dunn were producing at his normal clip. If the answer is yes or probably, its proof one hitter can make a difference.