Dick Allen

I think they will sign either Lowe, Sheets or Abreu if they trade Dye. Maybe 2 of them. They have all been known to interest the Sox in the past and KW usually always gets his guy, even when its a few seasons too late. I will also shock the world and even though I really don't think it will happen say KW will trade AJP and sign a toasted Ivan Rodriquez to catch for a couple years while waiting for Flowers. Abreu and Rodriquez are Ozzie's buddies.

Rick Hahn was on Tribune live and he reiterated the Gilmore/Crede comparison, then one of the guys asked him to compare Flowers to someone, and he said he didn't like to do that sort of thing. What? You just did. As far as Viciedo, you have to be concerned when they want a 19 year old to lose weight.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 10:38 AM) That he was. It would also be pretty crazy seeing as how Lowe is a Boras client too. Eventually, the White Sox are going to have to sign a Boras client. We will see what he signs for. The initial report I think said he wanted $17 million a year or something like that, then I read a week or 2 later that he hadn't discussed money with any team. Today I read he has an offer from the Phillies and another team that isn't Boston or the Yankees. Some people like to think every prospect KW acquires will be a star, ignoring the obvious,.I think every time a mystery team is mentioned for a big name, its the White Sox, ignoring the obvious.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 10:44 AM) A couple of million dollars for Cabrera wouldn't prevent the Sox from doing anything else they would have done over this winter. Its a waste of a couple of million. Its pissing it away on a longshot. Spend it on the Dominican Academy or something like that. Lightning can be caught in a bottle, but not all the time.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 10:40 AM) The Sox payroll is reportedly at $96 mill right now. Unless they shed Dye and then make no virtually no signings at all, it will be in the $100 million range. I read yesterday it was $82 million for 14 players. The other guys except for Jenks will make peanuts.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 10:32 AM) The Sox could very well be the team to give Cabrera the couple million, but the big difference, to me, between MacDougal and Cabrera is that, at this point in time, there's no long term commitment to Cabrera as there was with MacDougal. I'd also much rather give Cabrera a shot in the rotation rather than Marquez. If Marquez is anything like Floyd or Danks at all, another half season or so in AAA should be a necessity as is. He gave up 199 hits in 180 innings. He walked 90 guys, actually lowering his career walk rate. He hit 18 guys. In 180 innings, 108 get on base without having to swing a bat, let alone a guy who supposedly is so gifted his hard to hit gives up 199 hits in 180 innings. There's more than just a minor tweak or two that needs to be done to turn it around. This is a major reclimation project that has an excellent chance to fail. Throwing a couple of million at it doesn't make any sense.

I think if enough payroll is cleared, KW wants Derek Lowe. Wasn't he supposedly a target when they were dangling OC this past summer?

QUOTE (striker62704 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 09:54 AM) I still think Dye, Konerko or Thome could be dealt. Remember the 2005 team that won it all? We won with Everett as our DH and I think Konerko was the only 100+ RBI guy. Pitching and timely hitting is all it takes. The market for Thome who can only DH and makes $15 million is slim to none and he has a no trade. He's a White Sox. Dye can go. I think the Sox wouldn't mind trading Paulie, but finding a team that really will take him, and he will agree to go to will be tough. If the D-Backs can't afford Randy Johnson at $5 million a year, they aren't trading for Paulie. That would leave the Angels IMO. I think he stays.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 10:19 AM) I think Cabrera is worth a shot even if it's just because he's free (in the sense that he won't cost any players). I had no problem with the Sisco move and I believe I applauded it at the time and the MacDougal deal wasn't terrible at the time but has since become an absolute disaster of a deal. If Cabrera blows, he blows and he's in the pen or off the team come midseason. I had no problem with the Sisco move either, but giving Cabrera a couple of million is just replicating what you are doing with MacDougal. If he was willing to take a non guarantee, I'd have no problem, but someone is going to pay him something and since KW claims he only has $.75 and things cost $1.00, I hope he spends his money more wisely.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 10:08 AM) Before people start sticking a fork in Lillibridge because of his one bad season... Take a look at the comparison of his 2007 and 2008 AAA stats. GM A-B R Hits 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS SB% 87 321 47 92 14 2 10 41 20 59 .287 .331 .436 .767 28 5 85% 90 355 46 78 18 7 04 39 33 90 .220 .294 .344 .638 23 7 77% Surprising similar seasons... Roughly the same number of games, at bats, etc... What's the biggest difference that drives most of the numbers? 14 less hits in 2008... And 6 less homeruns.... Those two figures account for almost all the difference in his average, OBP, and SLG. That's the problem with using averages from small samples. It's pretty easy to envision a guy who is getting shuttled between AAA and the majors pressing and having his timing thrown off to result in getting 14 less hits over 355 at-bats... isn't it? So, I'm inclined to think 2008 may just turn out to be an off-year for him. In 2007, he was considered a better prospect than Escobar. Could turn out to be a classic KW value pickup. 14 less hits and 6 less homers in 34 more AB. So blow that .220 off in AAA, once in the majors to stay playing against even better players, he will do much better? Doesn't seem logical to me. He also struck out 31 more times. There's nothing there to show he's ready to contribute on the major league level yet.

QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 09:54 AM) Dont you think some of what made Mazzone seem so good is the calibur of pitchers he was able to work with, for the majority of his time in Atlanta he had Glavine, Maddux, and Smoltz and those 3 make any pitching coach look good. Not to mention they are pitching in a great pitchers park, I mean honestly nobody really flourished in Baltimore under him. Also, sometimes a guy just needs a different way of learning things and it clicks, regardless if Coop is a better pitching coach or not. When he was with Atlanta someone did a study believing he couldn't be as good as people thought he was and they looked at guys Mazzone coached at least one year. They compared the pitchers' ERAs with him as a coach and without him as a coach. There was a difference of 1.50 runs a game in his favor. Not everyone is going to flourish under even the finest of coaches. Cooper has had his share of failures as well. Cabrera can't throw a strike to save his life. How did that work out when Coop worked with Sisco and MacDougal?

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 09:16 AM) To be fair, a lot of people said that about Gavin Floyd also (not that I'm saying Marquez is going to be the next Gavin Floyd here, but my guess is they'll teach Marquez a cutter at least). Gavin Floyd, even though I still wonder about him, has a lot more tools than Marquez. Also, how would Floyd fared had he been thrown into the #4 spot in the rotation in 2007?

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 09:12 AM) Mazzone didn't exactly have the greatest record in Baltimore either though FWIW. He's "fixed" as many pitchers, if not more in his career than Cooper. Cooper won't be able to fix this guy. FWIW, there isn't a person dead or alive that would have been able to do anything with the personnel Mazzone was given in Baltimore.

QUOTE (tonyho7476 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 09:00 AM) We had better not...with 92% retention on season tickets or whatever, and my inability to upgrade my tickets, I expect money to be spent. I agree. The payroll will be cut, KW already said that. But I'm thinking it won't be huge or they will be putting a lot of pressure on the Jeff Marquez's of the world to produce in the major leagues what they couldn't in AAA. The economy most likely isn't going to be fixed by next year, if fact, it could even be worse. I believe most economists think unemployment will be higher. If the team fell on its face while raising prices and chopping an ungodly amount of payroll, especially knowing Thome and Contreras and Dye if he still is around would be coming off the books after 2009, they essentially would set this franchise back to the white flag era.

QUOTE (sayitaintso @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 12:01 AM) Khalil is reportedly going to STL for a couple of relievers. per rotoworld Khalil Greene-SS-Padres Dec. 4 - 12:10 am et The Cardinals are on the verge of acquiring Khalil Greene from the Padres for two relief prospects, according to the New York Post. We'll assume that neither Chris Perez nor Jason Motte is in the deal. If that's the case, it will probably be a pretty good one for St. Louis. Greene should prove to be at least a league-average shortstop away from Petco. He'll certainly be plenty motivated in what will be his walk year. not sox news at all, but since it was brought up in here, i figured i would post it. Actually it probably relates to the White Sox a little bit. That's a possible OC suitor off the board. When can arbitration players be traded?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:56 PM) Yeah, isn't Cabrera really tall? Haven't we learned our lesson with tall, wild pitchers? Leo Mazzone couldn't do anything with him. Some guys are what they are. He's just never going to be consistant, except perhaps consitantly bad.

Daniel Cabrera at USCF would make people look back at Danny Wright fondly. Sorry, Coop can't fix him. Sort of like MacDougal,Sisco, Aardsma.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:11 PM) We won't have to wait too long to find out...in the next couple of weeks. But you'd have to guess at least 10-15 other teams would at least have preliminary interest in Cabrera. That's where Ozzie and Cooper might give us the advantage, theoretically, in recruiting. I'll put it this way....I would rather find 3-4 Daniel Cabreras and sign them for $3-5 milllion each per season than bring in ONE Jake Peavy to USCF and the AL. The odds are very good that not putting all the eggs in one basket (like buying stocks) will end up bearing fruit if Don Cooper has anything to say about it. We can have a bet, Willy Taveras will be a member of the White Sox organization before December 31st. LOL. I'd take the ace.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 06:02 PM) Worst-case scenario, Santos and Nunez (Yankees deal) are two promising young bullpen arms that contribute a couple of years from now. Lefties that throw 93 aren't easy to come by and are pretty valuable commodities, although we've now ditched two in Marte and Logan. Remembering the Everett trade, it was Frank Francisco who had the biggest impact. At the time, many really liked Anthony Webster and Rupe. I would say worst-case scenerio is these two never wear major league uniforms. If worst case scenerio is what you claim, KW should be in jail.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 06:01 PM) Why don't we just do a three-man booth with DJ, Hawk, and Stone? Hawk probably isn't gonna be around much longer (I'm not saying he's gonna die soon, but he's close to retirement, IMO), and it'd be nice to have his replacement still in the booth and not miss a beat. However, I hope DJ gets the MLB Network gig. It's a better situation for him, IMO, and it'd be nice to know they have at least one guy there who is a bit favorable to the White Sox. Hawk isn't going to retire unless he just can't physically do the job anymore. If his health permits, he'll do the job until he dies. He loves the game, doesn't even call it a job and gets paid tons.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 05:56 PM) We'll see what numbers Renteria gets with the Giants. Cabrera would still prefer the certainty of 2-3 years from ANYONE else, rather than swallowing his pride and coming back to Chicago and Ozzie. At his age and with the beating his takes, he has to be concerned about an injury on a one year deal precluding his ever signing another big, long-term deal. When we see how much Abreu, Dunn, Griffey, Burrell and Rivera get, that should be another clue....along with the second tier of pitching, Wolf/Garland/Oliver Perez. And I'm still not convinced the A's are "frontrunners" for Furcal. It seems to be a smokescreen to me. Supposedly Renteria is getting 2 years around $9 million a year. Cabrera is going to have to make a quick decision. That, at least, is in the White Sox interests if they don't want him.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 05:52 PM) I really wonder if KW and Ozzie are thinking of making a run at Manny Ramirez for 2 seasons....although I am petty sure he'll get 3-4 elsewhere. It's not going to be Lowe or Burnett, we know that much. Sabathia and Sheets (because he could be had for less based on injuries, just like Harden) are more likely, but not high probability in any realm of the imagination. Peavy is certainly intriguing to talk about. I would rather pay Peavy big bucks than Dunn or Abreu, someone like that. I keep going back to 2005, and starting pitching wins championships. With all the pieces KW has to play with, I think our offense will be fine, if not much better than 2008 (unless we deal Dye, in which case it would be likely to take until 2010 with Fields, Viciedo, Beckham and even someone like Fernando Martinez making a true impact to see improvement in the offense). I think there's a better chance of KW firing Rick Hahn and making Frank Thomas his #1 guy than the White Sox going after Manny Ramirez. Pitching wins. The Sox signed Albert Belle and he and Frank Thomas were going to rule the AL Central. It didn't quite work out. They couldn't overcome a pitching staff that had Jaime Navarro on the hill for opening day.

QUOTE (SadChiSoxFanOptimist @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 05:39 PM) Why in the world would Darrin Jackson want to work next to Ed Farmer, partner-killer? You get paid a lot of money to watch a baseball game and talk about it. I'm sure he's been looking for something better. Obviously, if he thought working with Farmio was the mountain top he wouldn't still be looking for something else. Its a pretty good fallback option.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 05:45 PM) I would think the Blue Jays would want to put all their efforts into retaining Halladay, unless they auction him off in some kind of Herschel Walker-esque megatrade. They have huge money going to Wells and Rios, and I think Rolen's pretty expensive too, especially for what they're getting out of him. They have to really hope Snider explodes this year so they can move some of the veteran dollars. Didn't show enough patience with Jayson Werth, either, or ever really find a position for him. The Blue Jays aren't going to sign anyone except perhaps Burnett to an 8 figure salary. They just layed off a bunch of staff. I think the 2 most likely places for OC are the Dodgers and Oakland maybe St. Louis. The big problem with Cabrera is finding a team that would give him more than 2 years in this economic climate. He is 34. I think there's a reasonable chance he accepts arbitration. Maybe KW wants him to do just that.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 03:46 PM) That was before they started hearing about what Fuentes and KRod were asking for. Those reports also said Putz [who likely wouldn't be deal] and Wood were above Jenks. The Mets are only going to accept a top notch closer, or their fans will riot. They might have to overpay in terms of dollars or prospects to get it done. K-Rod's contract demands have gone down. The article also stated the Mets were not too thrilled with Jenks' declining strikeout rates. I'm sure they are the odds on favorite to land K-Rod. The Mets will wait it out. You know if K-Rod gets a 4 or 5 year offer from another team, they will bring it back to the Mets. Who that other team may be, I have no idea. Could be the White Sox if they trade Jenks.