Dick Allen

Notre Dame is sticking with Weis.

QUOTE (R.J. @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 06:06 PM) I mean seriously, this would clear about 10 million bucks here right? Swisher cleared about 5? We have OC and Uribe gone clearing 15? We should have some money to spend, even if the economy's in the tank. edit: way beaten. The interesting thing is many believe the middle tier players will be the ones squeezed due to the economy. KW may be able to get multiple bargains for multiple years if he's able to wait it out.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 06:04 PM) Well, we DO know there is going to be a hole in either RF or LF depending on where they put Q. Of course KW would rather be a more athletic team. Dunn's not a bad athlete, but he is a horrible OF. I think KW will stay away from him because he is the all or nothing type. Unless he can unload one or two of his current all or nothing types.

Uribe $4.5 million Crede $5.5 million Cabrera $9 million Vazquez $11.5 million Hall $2 million Swisher $5.5 million That's a lot of cash off the books. While they said payroll will be lower in 2009, it can't be THAT much lower. Something big is going to happen.

Maybe KW is loading up on prospects to get Peavy.

I am so glad Javy is gone. If the Braves contend he will suck. If they have a year like 2008, he may shine. I'm sure Texsox will think nothing of it, but of the 3 guys who went home instead of sticking around after not making the playoff roster if Logan is in this deal, only Broadway is left on the roster,and I don't think he's long for the White Sox.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 01:03 PM) This only applies to season ticket holders. The increases in price coupled with the economy will create a decrease in walk up and individual ticket sales. It would be smart to budget for that. And individual game ticket prices will increase, which will decrease the number of walk-ups as well. All we hear is 95% renewel rate. To raise prices when you have everyone's non-refundable playoff money and then state you are trimming payroll is pretty bold. Sticking it to your season ticketholders is a very slippery slope. That said, I don't care if the payroll is $10 million as long as they win. Just don't cry poor when you raise prices and claim a 95% renewel rate.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 12:57 PM) The economy is just a little different today than it was then, it makes sense that the budget is different too. There were tons of signs what was going to happen. JR is perhaps the wisest man in sports. Like everyone else, it chaps my ass they are cutting payroll but raising prices of my tickets by a significant amount. They had a better handle on the economy's condition when they decided to raise ticket prices.

QUOTE (R.J. @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 12:56 PM) More evidence that we're tightening our belt as the economy continues to fall (but the ticket prices, they still go up you see). Not that I'm all that interested in this years Japanese class, but how many times now has Kenny been quoted as saying our money is drying up? Its very old, just like all the bowing down to the Twins when they go to Minneapolis. You spank the Twins in Chicago, you can spank them there as well. Engraving a mindset that everything that can go wrong, will go wrong there just increases the chances that it will.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 11:30 AM) Knowing the Cubs, I wonder if this is an injury red-flag going up? Its Kerry Wood. He lives in a sea of injury red flags.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 12:39 PM) Maybe it's more like 'We're not going to pay a premium to have someone end up like Fukudome when we can get more bang for our bucks elsewhere' instead of 'we are poor'. What would these players have to do with Fukudome? All Japanese players will be dissapointments now? The "whoa is me" KW is back with $.75, and everything costs $1.00. There is no reason to comment if you don't have the budget for it. If they are so broke, how in the hell were they going to pay for Hunter or Fukudome last season?

QUOTE (Texsox @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:36 AM) I do not believe I made a list. I'm just trying to understand your criteria. It seems to value, for example, 12 great seasons over 22 nearly great seasons. You would rather a guy pick up 2,000 hits in 16 seasons than say 2,800 in 22 seasons. It doesn't matter as much where they rank in all-time totals, but rather how they got there. Several seasons leading the league versus twice as many, but only in the top 10. Longevity doesn't factor in. I tend to appreciate the skill and dedication required in career totals over percentages. One or two season wonders many times lead the league. (Does Loiaza and his 20+ win season make him a better pitcher than say Buerhle?) But yours is a very valid point of view, and shared by the majority of baseball writers. The only way you can play as long as Harold did is if your consistent like he was, and he was a good player. His 162 game average is .289 22 homers 93 rbi. That's very good. He averaged 129 games a year. So he averaged 17.5 homers and 74 rbi a season. That keeps you around making a nice check playing a game, but shouldn't put you in the HOF. If Harold Baines spent most of his career with a team other than the White Sox, I believe your opinion would be diffferent.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:00 AM) All excellent points. So if he produced the same career totals, but only played 16 seasons, you would value that higher? That it's so much career totals, but season totals? I'm surprised your not arguing about the injustice of Fred McGriff not being in the HOF. He only had 78 RBI less than Harold in 1100 less AB. Slugged at a higher pct. Got on base more often. Why is he not on your list? He's lost his eligibility, which will soon happen to Harold.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:47 AM) Yeah, I forgot about that one, but definitely his DH-ness will be a hinderence. 80 games in the field his last 15 seasons contributed to his longevity. Like I said, I love Harold. He was a sweet hitter, had a lot of huge hits. But..............289, .356 OBP average. If he's knees had remained healthy, he probably would have been a HOFer. But then again, if I could run a 4.2 40, I'd probably be a HOF running back.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:05 AM) WTF are we talking about here?? Odds of getting a good player with a samwich pick are like 10%. Odds of getting a good player w/o a samwich pick are like 0%. A samwich pick gets $1 million tops. so you draft 10 of them for $10 mil and odds are you get one good player. Sounds like a good gamble to me. I think your better off spending that $1 million in the Dominican, or somewhere like that.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 02:44 AM) Exactly my point, if we draft better like we are seeing now, these picks become very valuable. Instead of having to trade a Jenks or Dye package for a Garza like player you would already have him. Imagine if we had Garza, we would have so much more flexibility right now. If we can get more picks in that range and draft wisely it will benefit the team sooooo much. The point I'm making is, its not just the White Sox who miss with these picks. Every team has busts in the first few rounds. More busts than players that live up to their draft position. Its funny, the excuse that has been used for the White Sox poor farm system has been draft position. Now, if Cabrera doesn't accept arbitration the White Sox will get 2 picks, and there's a good chance they both will be lower than where they select as division champions. These picks aren't necessarily gold, but they cost more than gold, and chances are, if the White Sox are unwilling to go over slot with someone who has slipped because of contract demands, they will get someone who 5 years from now still won't be contributing much to the major league team. In 2004, the White Sox had 6 picks in the first 2 rounds. Fields, Lumdsen, Gio, Lucy, Liotta, Whistler. None have proven to be anything yet. In fact, in that 2004 draft, the only 2nd round pick to have any impact is the current AL MVP. He was picked after every White Sox selection except Liotta. So 4.5 years after that draft, only one good player in the entire league, albeit a great one, drafted in the second round.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 11:36 PM) NSS = Baines: most hits by anyone not in the HOF. Most RBIs of anyone not in the HoF. With both hits and RBIs guys immediately in front of him and behind him are in. If character counts for anything in baseball, and with the pathetic cheaters we have in there, it should. He should hold his head high while being selected. He certainly shuold not be dismissed too easily. Harold is a career .289 hitter, witha a career .356 OBP and 384 homers in 22 seasons. Never hit 30 homers in a season. Never hit 40 doubles in a season. Stole as many as 10 bases once in his career. Never walked 80 times in a season. 9th place is the highest he ever finished in MVP voting. Didn't play the field the last half of his career. A sweet, steady career, no doubt. A great clutch player? Of course. A HOFer? If you put him in, you better get the blueprints ready for a huge expansion project. Some don't think Jim Thome is HOF worthy. He's going to finish with over 550 homers and an OBP over .400.

He was offered arb.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 11:02 PM) Not that I want Taveras leading off for the Sox, but those prototypical leadoff hitters that are being referred to in the last couple of pages don't really grow on trees either. If you want a leadoff guy that can drive in runs, and has an OPS at, near, or over .800 with a handful of homers and still steals bases, you're talking about elite talent. Those names sound like Roberts, Ichiro, Sizemore, Granderson. The ones who can't do all that and are one-dimensional slap hitters (Taveras, Owens, etc.) are a dime a dozen. The rest are somewhere in between. The Sox haven't been able to find one of those "in between" guys for a while now. I understand that. But a leadoff hitter with a below average OBP, absolutely no power and no ability to drive in runs isn't the answer either. Like I said, if the price was low and Taveras was thought of as an eighth or ninth place hitter, I wouldn' mind him on the White Sox. Selling him as a leadoff hitter is a joke.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 10:57 PM) DA, you're better than that. Williams, probably more than any other GM in the league, has had a propensity to use prospects for already signed veteran players. As you said yourself, Borchard, for a time, was very highly thought of. Honel was going to be a stud. You are able to acquire these "assets" because of draft position. Williams doesn't seem to have a problem dealing talent if need be. Then maybe he can trade Broadway and McCullough for something useful. I tend to doubt it. It appears they will offer him arb. If he doesn't take it, it will be interesting to see how the draft picks pan out. Chances are, they won't.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 10:55 PM) Sounds more like an inditement of his teammates instead of a negative against him. Its a negative because in order to produce runs, Taveras needs all the help he can get. He can steal all the bases he wants, he's still going to need someone to drive him in. He's totally reliant on others to drive him in, just like everyone else, and he's not very apt at driving in runs considering 30 rbi is a career high.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 10:49 PM) But if you get draft picks out of it too, I think it turns to the Sox favor. Even though both teams didnt win the WS, we have a chance to add an extra piece from the draft to further rebuild our farm system. The draft picks will cost you a couple of million. While the Sox seem to have drafted decently the last couple of years, its no guarantee they really have. Joe Borchard was very highly thought of for several years. Kris Honel was going to be a stud. A guy like Poreda with a little funky delivery is a walking time bomb. Just look at the past several drafts, and look at the first round and sandwich picks. There are a lot more guys who don't do anything that become stars.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 10:46 PM) And again, why is a guy who gets on a few more times per season and hits a few more XBH's more valuable than a guy who gets on less and hits for less power but does more damage when he's on? League average OBP and league average SLG% in CF isn't going to get you a whole lot anyway. At least Willy has a tool to use when he does get on base. If a guy hits 40 doubles and steals 15 vs. a guy who hits 15 doubles and steals 40, they basically get to second just as much, but the guy who hits the doubles will drive in runs. In the AL with a DH, a leadoff guy that can drive in runs is pretty valuable.

QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 10:39 PM) Everyone besides Whitesox fans thought we got the better player in the deal, getting the draft picks just sweetened the deal a little more for us. Garland, results-wise, is Javy Vazquez without the strikeouts but a few more wins. Now Vazquez is owed $23 million the next 2 seasons. Cabrera supposedly is better than Garland, so would you offer Cabrera a 2 year $23 million deal? It doesn't matter who "won" the trade, both players likely will be elsewhere in 2009 and neither won the WS in 2008. As far as I'm concerned, its a wash.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 10:29 PM) He will be guaranteed to lead-off exactly once a game. He has zero power. The problem is the leadoff hitter is going to get up to the plate more than any other hitter over the course of a season. Willy Taveras isn't the guy you want for that.