Dick Allen

Pedroia Morneau Youkilis Mauer Quentin 5th place missing the last month isn't bad.

The entire premise for trading Jenks is the White Sox would be anticipating a decline in his performance while his paycheck will be significantly higher. If they can get a haul, and from what I read, they won't get it from the Mets, and think his performance is about to decline, they would probably trade him. I'm not for looking to trade guys at "peak value" if they still are giving you "peak performances". If you go by stats, you probably don't think about trading Freddy Garcia after 2006. 218 IP 17-9 4.54 ERA, owed $10 million for 2007. Much better numbers than Vazquez, and people think the $23 million and 2 years left on his deal are a bargain. Sometimes anticipating some rough times for players while they still have a lot of value leads to deals.

Former White Sox catcher Don Wakumatsu will be named the new Mariners manager. Joey Cora shut out.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2008 -> 04:24 PM) I wonder if he showed up out of shape and scared some people off? I agree. The agent talks like he has a million offers. Maybe the offers just aren't as attractive as what he was hoping.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 17, 2008 -> 04:16 PM) I'm not about to debate the merits of Soxtalk or Southside Sox and I will solely tell you that selling low is something you do for a guy that has proven himself to be a fully productive major league ball player. Nick Swisher showed absolutely nothing last year. Does he have baseball tools, sure, was his value at an all time low, sure, but there isn't a f***ing team in baseball that was about to give up A type prospects for someone that was as god awful as Swisher was last year. The problem with the concept of trying to sell high and buy low is that you would always be trading your best players and the players who can't play would be littering your roster for years. The quicker you admit your mistakes and move on, the better. I like that blog, but ripping the Sox for "selling low" is BS. The guy sucked, was owed a lot of money, and the positions he plays happen to be where the Sox have more capable players. You get rid of him for what you can. They didn't have to eat any of the contract. Spend some of the savings on other players who actually can help you and move on.

QUOTE (Raf @ Nov 17, 2008 -> 02:15 PM) Wow. The analysis is spot on. The Sox DID sell shockingly low on Swisher, AND gave up the best pitcher in the deal on top of everything. The chances of Swisher rebounding are much better than any of these former Yankee scrubs ever amounting to anything. There's a reason why South Side Sox is regularly linked to by other, respected publications. It's a great site with extensive analysis and scouting predictions, which is more than I can say about Sox Talk. I'm sure I will be kicked off now, so I will leave you all to bicker amongst yourselves. Anytime you get get out of a $22 million obligation with a guy who was horrendous and couldn't beat out DeWayne Wise, anything you get is gravy. Texiera probably will be nothing. I agree the 2 Yankee minor leaguers are crap. Betimet may be able to help. Swisher is just bad. Holding on hoping against your better judgement that Swisher can turn it around just so your trade won't be thought of as wrong, bad or stupid, is exactly wrong, bad and stupid. The White Sox will use the financial savings on major league players. Players who will have a position to play. Obviously, if Swisher proves last season was just a fluke, KW got hoodwinked. I think that's a longshot. I've been critical of KW. I'm not like a lot of people on this board who think every move he makes has to be gold because he's the great KW, but this move makes a lot of sense for the White Sox. If Swisher shows next season he still can't play, your stuck with about $16 million for 2 years and a contract that in unmovable unless you eat most of it.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Nov 17, 2008 -> 12:39 PM) If Detroit is willing to trade for Lugo (albeit dumping a bad contract in the process), some team will give Cabrera a good enough offer so the Sox will have to offer him arbitration I would have thought. But they are giving up a bad contract in exchange. I don't think Detroit is going to be in any position to add money.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 17, 2008 -> 11:37 AM) You're right, but he won't take arbitration when he can easily sign a multi-year deal elsewhere. His ego is too high to admit he's not worth a multi-year deal. At 34 (right?), this is probably his last chance at a multi-year deal anyway. If he's offered $6-8 million a year for 2 or 3 years, he may jump at the arb offer believing the market and economic conditions could be better next year. He is definitely in the group of guys who are going to get squeezed this off season. The top 4 or 5 guys won't be affected. If they don't offer him arb we know they really didn't like him very much.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 17, 2008 -> 02:55 AM) Failing to offer arbitration to Cabrera would be dumb as hell. He's almost certainly going to sign a multi-year contract elsewhere and even if he accepted arbitration, the Sox would be able to deal him with the number of teams looking for a shortstop, even if two of them are in the AL Central. I could be wrong, but I think if you offer someone arb and they accept, you can't trade them for a while. I don't know if many teams want Cabrera at $11 -$12 million anyway.

Good thing Rex didn't start this game. The horrible play of everyone else would be ignored and the humiliation would have been blamed on him.

A couple of White Sox notes from Gammons: • Ken Williams is one of the winter's most significant wheelers and dealers. He is marketing Javier Vazquez, Bobby Jenks, Jermaine Dye and others as he tries to overhaul the White Sox. The Mets are afraid of the red flag on Jenks, whose strikeout rate has dropped precipitously from 50 in 39 1/3 innings in 2005 to 38 in 61 2/3 innings this past season. And although GM Omar Minaya checked in on Sabathia, it does not mean the Mets will get into a bidding war with the Yankees for the 2007 AL Cy Young Award winner. • Scouts in Arizona for the Arizona Fall League and the White Sox's minor league people are convinced that Gordon Beckham, the eighth pick in the MLB draft this past June, will be Chicago's everyday second baseman by June.

According to Phil Rogers, one reason the Sox are considering moving Jenks is that some feel Jon Link can be a nice closer. He doesn't get much mention on this board, but if they think he can close in the big leagues he has to be a big consideration for a set up role as well.

I expect at least 2 of the 3 seemingly open positions to be filled by expensive veterans. I will be the most shocked human in the world if KW doesn't acquire a legitimate leadoff hitter this offseason.

http://www.isfauthority.com/images/35thStr...erings-2of2.jpg http://www.isfauthority.com/images/35thStr...erings-1of2.jpg There are doors where the current offices are. Maybe they will put the restaurant/bar and gift shop there.

Didn't Wood have a problem with Steve Stone several years ago for Stoney telling it like it is?

QUOTE (shipps @ Nov 15, 2008 -> 09:10 AM) Speaking of Griffey,he says it was easier to play CF than the corners.And that is something I always thought was the opposite but Iam buying into that now.You can get alot better read and alot quicker read on the ball.You dont have to contend with the funny little nooks and crannys that are down the lines.And you can see the pitch and location of where the hitter got to it more clearly,you pretty much get a far greater overall view of the play on the field. I think if he spent the majority of his career as a corner OF he would feel differently. A guy who is injured as often as he is and has the range he has now should not be in CF. The angle the ball comes to you is a little different, but I've heard KW talk about it and make it seem like its something huge, but these guys can pick it up in a very short time. He may think its easier to play CF but his pitching staff finds it harder to be successful when he's out there. The batting average for ball in play which has been used to describe how unlucky Swisher was this year was something like 75-100 points higher when Griffey played CF for the Reds his last season he played the position for them compared to what it was when someone else was playing CF. A bad defensive CF hurts your team a lot more in the long run than a bad defensive RF or LF.

The White Sox have increased ticket prices by a pretty good percentage on their better seats. Given the current state of the economy, I think this means they will be throwing some money around this offseason. I don't think they would increase prices and make you watch Owens in CF, Fields at 3rd, Nix at 2B all at the same time.

Basically all this move does is opens up a spot to protect someone else in the rule 5 or take another player in the rule 5.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Nov 14, 2008 -> 04:20 PM) would we get picks then? No.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 14, 2008 -> 04:12 PM) If he accepts aribtration we don't get a draft pick AND we can only cut his pay by 20%. All of that for maybe 2nd round pick. Definitely not worth the risk if the Sox don't want Juan. I think people should look at the draft year after year and see how many guys drafted in the first couple of rounds who get million dollar plus signing bonuses and never amount to anything. The Sox would lose arbitration if they tried to cut his salary as well.

No surprise. MacDougal loses his spot on the 40 man roster.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Nov 14, 2008 -> 03:18 PM) Why is it when we are talking about potential trade value of our players they are always worthless, until we actually do trade one of them and we never get enough for them? Its the catch 22. According to some here, you aren't supposed to trade a guy when his value is low, but if you trade a guy when his value is high and his numbers are great and he's helping the team win, your sanity will be questioned as well. Personally, I like KW ridding his team of players who don't perform.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Nov 14, 2008 -> 01:49 PM) Still if you compare who we drafted in 2008 compared to say 2006 with Beckham, Danks and Upchurch up against Kyle McCullough, money isn't exactly the end all to be all, if you can find and draft the right players. I think when the dust settles on the 2008 draft, it will be Gordon Beckham and a bunch of minor league filler. I'm not sold on Danks although he has hit ever since he signed. Picking KW's son as high as they did shows there still is a problem with the system.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 14, 2008 -> 01:49 PM) Rasmus is far too hyped by that org, but you are right in stating that they will never give him up or it would take a lot more than his true value to get him. If the White Sox had a 20 year old who put up the numbers he did in AA in 2007 he would be incredibly hyped. Just reading this board, one would probably be shocked if Poreda isn't a HOFer. Rasmus was hurt a lot in 2008, but this guy is quite a player. I don't think STL has had any thought of trading him, but if Dye and Javy get the job done, it may be worth it to get him and sign some free agents.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 14, 2008 -> 12:44 PM) Keith Law's take I have the feeling Swisher will flame out in NY and Billy Beane will pick him up for next to nothing with the Yankees eating a lot of the contract.