Dick Allen

I think KW should wait until spring training when Crede can show he is healthy to deal him. It would make no sense to deal him now. Keep him around, if he's healthy he's got a lot of worth, and who knows, maybe Fields gets hurt in the spring.

I agree, I wouldn't want Lowry. I also think people will appreciate Crede a little more when he is gone.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jan 22, 2008 -> 01:27 PM) Not sure how he f'd it up, considering Cotts has been in Iowa and we still got another player in the deal...(Vasquez) Plus Cotts helped the White Sox beat the Cubs last season. It was close to a double sweep.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 22, 2008 -> 01:21 PM) which DA couldn't wait to point out again Actually, I was complementing KW on not being too stubborn, and basically admitting he was wrong. He had a higher opinion about Aaardsma than just about everybody else, and he cut bait.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2008 -> 12:25 PM) Teams don't want to waste roster spots and money on old guys who's arms are falling off. They're more than happy to waste roster spots on young, cheap guys with a small chance of turning around their careers. KW apparently wasn't, and he was the one bragging about how no one else but he saw Aaardsma turn a corner with the Cubs in 2006.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2008 -> 11:42 AM) Any team out there that has room on the 40 man would be happy to have a guy with his arm. Any team with a hole at the back end of the bullpen will be happy to give him a tryout. He's yet another relief pitcher with a good shot at coming back to bite us in the arse. But using your logic with Bartolo Colon why if the Giants didn't want him, they took Hawkins off the Cubs hands for him, if the Cubs didn't want him, they traded him straight up for Cotts when Cotts couldn't have lower market value, and the White Sox DFA him with all of their bullpen problems and pretty near maxed out financially, would anyone want him?

DFA'd. Ramirez and Dotel signings official.

It looks like its true per Gonzalez By Mark Gonzales, 3:02 p.m. The Chicago White Sox could announce the signing of veteran reliever Octavio Dotel to a two-year contract within the next 24 hours. "We're just working out some details," agent Dan Horwits said Monday. Dotel, 34, will further fortify a bullpen that had a 5.47 ERA last season. The Sox already signed Scott Linebrink to a four-year, $19 million contract in November, and Dotel's deal is expected to be worth around $11 million.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 21, 2008 -> 03:24 PM) So, ESPN finally has something up, and they seem to be saying that there's smoke but no fire yet. I'm starting to think it isn't official yet. Levine says it will be by the end of today.

I'm starting to wonder if KW has something up his sleeve involving Bobby Jenks. Jenks is soon to be arbitration eligible. He had a nice streak last year which would make him being sold high. His K rate has decrease each of his 3 seasons. K-Rod, a decent comparison is going to get 8 figures, I don't think KW will want to go anywhere near that with Jenks. Maybe something involving Bedard.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 21, 2008 -> 11:57 AM) IMO, signing Colon only makes this team worse. This team can hang with the others right now if Contreras, Danks, and Floyd are decent. I think that if the Mets and Royals have decided they have no interest in Colon, it's pretty bloody obvious that he's only going to downgrade even from the young guys we have. 5 years ago, no team was interested in Estaban Loaisa. Not the Mets, not the Royals, no one. KW gave him a minor league deal with an invite to spring training. He very easily could have won 25 games in 2003. 3 years ago, several teams passed on making a waiver claim for Bobby Jenks, we know how that turned out. I'm not saying Colon will do that, but explain to me why, if they can get him cheap, it makes this team worse? If he can't pitch, he won't pitch.

When I eat a meal, I eat one thing at a time, in reverse order of how much I'm looking forward to eating it. I have always been given a hard time about eating things one at a time, but I really have never told anyone I'm eating with that there definitely is an order.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 20, 2008 -> 06:33 PM) So...in addition...you can also figure that the K.C. Royals took a look at Bartolo, evaluated his health and asking price, and decided that giving $3 million to Brett Tomko would be a better decision. That's the last place team, the team that spent $55 million on Gil Meche...turning their back on Bartolo Colon, and deciding that Tomko would work better. Please just stop asking for this guy people. The ROYALS don't want him. Please keep that in mind. I think Gil Meche had an ERA about the same as Buerhle last year, and has a career ERA similar to Vazquez. Obviously, pitching in Seattle helped that, but Vazquez spent a lot of time pitching to pitchers in the NL also. If the Royals released him, and he was making little money I might agree with you, but unless you have some inside information as to why they backed away, chances are it was about guaranteed money. I haven't seen 1 post here in favor of giving him a lot of cash, just a low guarantee with incentives. There is no harm in that. Maybe he is done, maybe not. I think its worth a minor gamble.

If the offer was pulled because KW didn't think Colon could help very much in 2008, thats one thing. If KW pulled the offer because he was shopping it around, that's dumb. Its what free agents do. When you look for a job, doesn't everyone play all the other offers and current salary off to maximize dollars?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 18, 2008 -> 03:52 PM) Simply stating that the bullpen was horrible with those guys ignores the reality of last year's bullpen. It was horrible to start the year with Sisco and Masset performing poorly while at the same time Thornton and MMac blew up or got hurt. Logan performed very well last year in his role, unless you have a problem with lefties putting up a .584 OPS against him, and if you do, then I'm sure you'll be angry with the .430 OPS that righties put up against Wasserman. Logan and Wasserman IIRC didn't even start the year in that bullpen. And the role that Linebrink is now supposed to fill didn't really have anyone in it except for the whole Prinz/Bukvich disaster once MMac got hurt. Just saying that the Sox bullpen was horrible last year ignores the fact that it did improve as the year went by, and it ignores the fact that some of the guys in it (MMac, Thornton) have performed before. You can disagree with specific issues or simply say that I'm wrong to think that last year will be the bottom for Thornton and MacDougal, but the simple fact that last year's bullpen stank proves virtually nothing about how a bullpen where 1/2 the guys weren't there to start last season will perform. It improved after about a 3 month stretch where the bullpen ERA was over 7 IIRC. Take away Jenks' streak, and who was all that impressive? Logan seems to be good against lefties, but he's not used exclusively against them. Adding another guy who won't walk everyone who comes to the plate, and actually can get someone out would be a help. Wassermann looked alright, but I have a hard time believing he could keep that up. Thornton reverted back to the Thornton the Mariners had no roster spot for. MacDougal continued to get hurt, and couldn't throw strikes, something that is not new to him. The only relievers who pitched more than 10 innings last season and had an ERA under 4.79 were Jenks and Wassermann, and Wassermann only threw 23 innings. They also were the only 2 relievers with a WHIP under 1.51. If you don't think that is horrible, I want you to be my boss in June when its time for my review.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 18, 2008 -> 03:14 PM) No matter what, we're starting from a good place in that we have right now one of the best closer's in baseball. That helps. Beyond that...we have what looks to be a pair of very young, potentially very effective LOOGY/ROOGY's in Loogyn and Wasserman. And we've got the veteran thrown in as Linebrink, who, even if he has a bad season, should still hopefully be decent. The wild card right now appears to be Thornton and MMac. If those 2 have decent seasons, then regardless of what happens in teh 7th spot then we have a very good bullpen. If those 2 struggle as they did in 07, then we'd have to really strike gold with Linebrink or with the 7th man for us to have a very good bullpen. The bullpen was horrible with all the names you mentioned minus Linebrink. The White Sox still need more pitching or some of their guys to suddenly find some magic potion that will allow them to throw strikes.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 18, 2008 -> 01:25 PM) For all the MacDougal haters, believe it or not, but Mac probably has the best stuff in the pen, or at least the 2nd best, depending on how Jenks is pitching. Second, if healthy, Dotel will be better then Linebrink, but right now that is a big if. 11 million over 2 years for Dotel would be quite the stupid risk to take so I'm not surprised that this is now just a rumor. If we do sign to a more realistic contract though, I'm all for this move. Stuff is nice to have, but it really means diddley if you can't throw a strike. I'm not a MacDougal hater, but if you can't throw strikes, and he couldn't in 2007, you are pretty worthless. If he can't get some sort of control to return, he can be good again. If this Dotel signing happens, it makes the bullpen a lot better. If someone from the Masset, Aardsma, MacDougal group pitches in 2008 like KW hoped they would pitch in 2007, the bullpen becomes one of the strongest in baseball, and then the Sox go from a mediocre at best team to one with a chance.

QUOTE(ptatc @ Jan 18, 2008 -> 08:11 AM) I still don't hink Ozzie will use his bullpen anymore than in past years. However, no matter which way you look at it, a good bullpen will make a good manager and a bad pen will make a bad manager. Unless Danks or Floyd suddenly show they can consistently get to the 7th inning, he's going to have to. I like this move a lot. You can never have too much pitching. KW needed to spend money on the bullpen and he did. I will congratulate him for that.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 16, 2008 -> 11:11 AM) Colon tore a rotator cuff partially in the 2005 playoffs. As far as I can tell, he attempted to rehab it to pitch during 2006, but was pretty much a disaster that year and wound up having the surgery. He attempted to return from the surgery in 2007, but again was no where near where he once was, his fastball wasn't there, his shoulder was still sore, and he wound up overcompensating for the sore shoulder by causing pain in his elbow it appears. Furthermore, according to the NY Daily News, he's also used Juan Gonzalez's trainer, who just happened to be caught carrying steroids through an airport (The guy said they belonged to Juan). His only positive in closing out 2007 was that he still had his right arm. And if 3-4 months have gone by and some team like the Mets, who have money and who desperately need a starting pitcher...has not yet snapped him up...that really, really ought to tell you something. And by the way, you have no idea how much fun it is using The Google to search for anything involving the 2 words "Colon Surgery" even if you stick in Bartolo. Gee, no team wanted to give the Angels a broken bat for Bobby Jenks, KW shouldn't have claimed him. There's probably very little chance Colon is the CY Young pitcher he was in 2005, but even if there's a 30% chance that he could be a decent 4th or 5th starter what is the harm in signing him if the guarantee is low?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 14, 2008 -> 05:02 PM) If Colon was able to give some team Garland type numbers according to their scouts and medical people, he'd be getting $10 mil this year and probably already have signed with a team like the Mets or Braves who clearly have openings for a starter come April. Not necessarily. I would agree if he were pretty close to a lock to being able to do it, but he does have some damage. I believe in 2006 he was diagnosed with a partially torn rotator cuff, which he didn't have operated on. Its probably anyone's guess as to how he will do, but if he will sign for peanuts and play for incentives, unless his medical reports say his arm is absolutely shot, I hope the Sox sign him or someone like him. Like was posted above, the chances Contreras, Danks and Floyd all pitch well are pretty slim. Someone trying to make a comeback looking to prove himself worth big money would be a good gamble IMO if the guarantee was low.

QUOTE(Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jan 14, 2008 -> 02:41 PM) If the Sox are in serious contention without Colon then you probably wouldn't want to make significant changes as you say. If the back end of our rotation sucks, then we suck and we're going nowhere in the division. If that is the case, it is much better to go with one of Broadway/Egbert, or even Nick Masset. If we're going to suck, we should at least suck with young players who have some kind of chance to learn at the MLB level and help us in the future. Colon makes absolutely no sense for this team unless we acquire another better, more reliable SP. If we had a reliable #3 starter, like say Jon Garland for instance, we would have a solid group 1-3 with two more veterans penciled in at the bottom and our young pitchers representing depth. It's still Riske to have to rely on two of Colon/Contreras/Danks/Floyd/Egbert/Broadway turning out as solid #4 and #5 starters, especially in our division where there is minimal if any room for error, but it's a lot better than relying on three of those guys doing the job. Colon makes a ton of sense if the White Sox and their medical team determine Colon is capable of giving you Garland-like numbers for what probably would be a fraction of the cost. If he's healthy, he eats innings, something Floyd and Danks have not shown they can do yet, and if winning is the goal in 2008, that is something this team needs.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 14, 2008 -> 11:25 AM) And let's face it...some team is going to give Colon a lot more than $3 million a year for a 1 year deal. Maybe not. If someone wants to give him a ton guaranteed, then KW should pass. If he's willing to pitch basically for incentives, the Sox need pitching and hopefully he could come in and provide a solid #4 or #5 type of performance. Or maybe he can't help, but at least they are checking him out, I will give KW and Ozzie credit for that.

Terry Bevington and Jaime Navarro were the only 2 White Sox that I have ever totally despised. There have been lots of players I didn't think were any good and wanted traded, but they really didn't affect my blood pressure like the 2 guys mentioned. I must say I am totally shocked Juan Uribe has only 1 mention.

Giving him $10 million a year for 3 years would be an even worse contract than they gave Jaime Navarro.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jan 11, 2008 -> 03:14 PM) Colon is a battler. If healthy, or at least as healthy as we can be sure of, he might be worth the chance. I still wonder about the condition of Freddie Garcia. I liked him too Garcia won't be pitching until June at the earliest. I wonder what kind of cash Colon is looking for. I'd give him a contract where he could earn a lot, but it all has to be perfomance based. If teams are questioning the condition of his arm, it may keep the guarantee in the contract he will eventually sign vvery low. As much as I've always liked Colon that would be the only thing that makes sense to me if you are considering him. It would be silly to give him $8 -9 million guaranteed.