Dick Allen

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 12, 2008 -> 10:50 AM) To be honest, if Anderson has his head out of his ass, I have said for two years now that he is our best option in CF. But I can also understand that Brian Anderson's meltdown has put this team behind the eight ball. I don't see how that is mutally exclusive, or means that Kenny Williams can do no wrong, but OK, have fun with the hyperbole. I am not quite sure how Williams is supposed to handle his players failing. Does he not do anything because he picked them up in the first place? Besides, if Anderson was the answer all along, why should Williams have gone out and paid a lot of money for another CF in free agency. That is talking out of both sides of your mouth. Then again, so would be critisizing Williams for the Linebrink signing when you called him cheap for not dipping into FA to fix our problems. Obviously Erstad wasn't the answer, so that means Williams screwed that up. He also screwed up by thinking Anderson was ready to be a major league CF. I guess that makes me a guy who thinks KW can do no wrong Why was it not Pod's fault that Quentin was acquired? Why was it not Erstad's or Owens' fault that KW had to pay the price for Swisher, or why wasn't it KW's fault for not properly assessing how certain players would perform? Ultimately, it comes down to the boss. If you don't like the current state of the team, he is who you should blame, not some guy who had 17 major league at bats last season. It makes absolutely no sense that BA's inability to hit made KW get 2 guys at least one of which maybe both won't even play the same position.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 12, 2008 -> 08:46 AM) If the Sox win 90 games, and Anderson still preforms like a egotistical amatuer, he still gets replaced in 2007. The Sox record has nothing to do with that. Kenny goes out and replaces parts that need fixing. Anderson couldn't handle CF like a major leaguer in 2006, so the Sox had to resort to Darin Erstad in 2007. The failure of Erstad on top of the failure of Anderson led to the Sox flushing their minor leagues for Quinten and Swisher. The one constant in that trend is that if Brian Anderson could have stepped to the plate, none of the next steps would have happened. That is the first domino in that line. I would call requiring the Sox to aquire all of those OFs screwing up the Sox. I would much rather have Anderson playing at his earlier potential, along with Chris Carter, Gio Gonzalez, Faustino De Los Santos, and Ryan Sweeney still in our system. Wouldn't the Sox having to go get Quentin, Pods fault? Anderson was/is a CF and Quentin certainly doesn't play that position. But I suppose if Ozzie or KW rip a player, everything is their fault.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 12, 2008 -> 08:46 AM) If the Sox win 90 games, and Anderson still preforms like a egotistical amatuer, he still gets replaced in 2007. The Sox record has nothing to do with that. Kenny goes out and replaces parts that need fixing. Anderson couldn't handle CF like a major leaguer in 2006, so the Sox had to resort to Darin Erstad in 2007. The failure of Erstad on top of the failure of Anderson led to the Sox flushing their minor leagues for Quinten and Swisher. The one constant in that trend is that if Brian Anderson could have stepped to the plate, none of the next steps would have happened. That is the first domino in that line. I would call requiring the Sox to aquire all of those OFs screwing up the Sox. I would much rather have Anderson playing at his earlier potential, along with Chris Carter, Gio Gonzalez, Faustino De Los Santos, and Ryan Sweeney still in our system. So if Quentin, Owens and or Swisher are just as successful if not more than the names you mentioned, remember you said Brian Anderson screwed up the White Sox. And if they all perform great, maybe you change your mind and say Brian Anderson fixed the White Sox. You probably also blame him for the economy, 9/11 and so on. You talk out of both sides of your mouth because you think KW does no wrong. You say Kenny goes out and replaces parts that need fixing, so the Sox had to resort to Darin Erstad. Appears he replaced a part that needed fixing with another part that was beyond fixing. What screwed up the Sox was trying to fix holes with guys who were worse. See the bullpen. KW could have kept the prospects if he wanted to shell out more money, but once again, he misread the market. His market correction never occurred/

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 12, 2008 -> 08:02 AM) How is it "pure fiction"? None of Vazquez, Buerhle, Politte, Cotts, Contreras, or Jenks play CF, so what do they have to do with bringing in Erstad? If Anderson preforms, Darrin Erstad isn't brought to the Sox in 2007. The pitching problems are the reasons guys like MacDougal, Sisco, and company were brought to the team. Because Anderson wasn't the problem in 2006 and CF wasn't the reason the team lost 90 games last year. Erstad blows, but he did not screw up the White Sox, he didn't cost much and certainly didn't cost them 20 games. Willie Mays in his prime could have been patrolling CF at USCF last year and the team would have been horrible. Erstad just performed and got injured like everyone except Ozzie and KW knew he would but they insisted they need a "grinder".

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 10:48 PM) God forbid if he faced CC, it would be so much better if we put Uribe and his .200BA against CC up there to swing for the fences. We were so impressed with Uribe that after signing him, we immediately traded our best trading chip for his position. Then after finding no suitors we are forced to use him. If it wasn't for the 4 million dollar salary Uribe he would be sitting on the pine as a utility guy. I'd bet my home if Ramirez makes the White Sox and plays everyday, you will hate his swing at everything approach, and will say its all Greg Walker.

QUOTE(TLAK @ Mar 12, 2008 -> 07:09 AM) The guy Nelson Cruz homered off of in the tenth yesterday is none other than Matt Anderson, late of the Tigers and Rockies. I didn’t know the Sox organization signed him. He sat out 2007 and started a comeback with Naranjeros de Hermosillo last fall. He got into 3 games, lost 2 of them. 3.1 IP, 2 ER, 4 BB (1 intentional), 2 K, 1 HR for an ERA of 5.40. He’s obviously a deep, deep reclamation project if the organization keeps him around at all. Yesterday was his only appearance for the big club this spring. Isn’t this the same kid who used to throw 100 mph for the Tigers? Has anyone seen him, does he still throw hard? Yes he's one and the same. If he's on the White Sox in 2008, it would be the pitching equavalent to Andy Gonzalez leading off. He wasn't so good before his injuries.

Keith Law had some tidbits on 3 White Sox. I'm not a fan of Law but he was employed for several years by the Blue Jays as an assistant GM. He thinks Ramirez can hit for a decent average with 20 homer potential, but feels his OBP will be extremely low and compared him to BJ Upton now an OFer I believe, defensively at 2B. He says he's a lot like Soriano, but lacks Soriano's explosiveness and has even less plate discipline than him. He said Gavin Floyd's stuff has gone backwards, that his curveball, once deemed as one of the best is now just "solid" average. His fastball is 91-93, with little command, and says his change isn't anything special. He likes Josh Fields but says his pitch recognition is still lacking which will keep his walk rate down and well keeping his strikeouts up, and says he doesn't have the defensive capabilities to fall back on. All in all, pretty harsh. I still don't know how you judge anybody at this stage, and obviously Law didn't talk to the 29 teams KW mentioned who would love to have Floyd, and that most people in the industry, according to him, view him as a top of the rotation starter.

QUOTE(Princess Dye @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 10:22 PM) right but the point is just about playing 2b. How much harder can MLB second base be....than Cuban second base? The hardest hit ball down there must be as hard hit as here. The hard slides... well, that would be about the only issue i could think of. If he's hitting the cover off the ball all spring, I think you look past it and give him a shot opening day. First off, Ozzie hasn't been too impressed with his glove at 2B this spring. I also think there's a comfort level he would have playing in Cuba that he wouldn't have March 31 in Cleveland. He was a star, now he's a guy trying to make a team. The major leagues is the biggest stage, he's bound to be a little tight. I also think Ozzie is referring to offensively as well, as he's probably rarely, if ever, faced a guy with Sabathia's stuff in what could be not the most ideal playing conditions. I wonder what the lowest temperature Ramirez has ever played in.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 10:14 PM) Give this team a solid coach, system, and maybe a leader somewhere and it could turn around real quick. And play the damn kids. I think I read that the Bulls are now the youngest team in the NBA.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 09:17 PM) Brian Anderson screwed this team up by having the season he did in 2006, combined with his superman attitude, which made Williams feel like he had to bring in Erstad. Pure fiction. The first half of the year, he wasn't hitting, but the White Sox were in first place. In July and August combined he hit over .300 with an OPS of .800 when the team was fading. What did the 2006 White Sox in was the pitching. Vazquez was bad, Buerhle was bad, Politte and Cotts were horrible, Jenks spent the winter of 05/06 at Krispy Kreme and wasn't ready when the bell rung. Contreras hurt his back and went south. It wasn't Anderson. The manager said in spring training he didn't care what Anderson hit, he was concerned about his defense. He provided defense. Unfortunately he couldn't position himself in the bleachers.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 05:14 PM) If Joe Crede was capable of hitting .260 this season with an OBP of around .330 and 20HR's, then yes I would agree with you, Crede would be more valuable to this team in 2008. However I'd say the chances of the above scenario happening aren't very good, based on Crede's rustiness at the plate so far, and you don't know if he'll ever be 100% again. And sometimes the above isn't so simple, you have to look at things such as the contracts of both players, and where both players fit into your long - term core. Fields does, but Crede at this stage does not. How can you judge Crede on 22 AB when he hasn't played in a long while, and not only is he getting used to playing again, don't forget the hand injury suffered when the White Sox incredibly had MacDougal, he of the hard throwing I have no idea where the ball is going MacDougals pitching batting practice to guys owed millions and the predicable occured?

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 01:42 PM) Sure because when I think about shortening the stroke, the whitesox minor leagues come to mind. They have produced many a short and quick swing. Don't you say Walker tries to make everyone swing for the fences? I believe "lift and pull" is the term you use. They actually have some new instructors in the minor leagues this season. Joe McEwing I believe is the Charlotte hitting coach.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 01:37 PM) Wow so now Fields will hinder the sox from winning. Who are these young players. The only one that looks to start is Owens. The rest will be in AAA or bench fodder as it looks. How is he going to develop in AAA. Feast on the crappy pitching of the International League. The same league that allowed Brian Anderson to hit 300 or better. Sure he can learn all sorts of bad things there. He can work on shortening his stroke. I'm surprised you think exposure to Greg Walker is good for him.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 12:34 PM) You can not just assume Josh Fields will get better. We can all hope he does, but I have heard of the sophmore jinx also plus sometime you see the flash in pan player do good in his first year and slip from there. However, can we all agree that we hope Fields does better and improves on his batting eye so we don't see the K's pile up? Exactly. When Crede was 24 he hit 12 homers in 200 AB and hit over .280. Fields hit with about the same power, but less average and a little less with the glove and a lot less contact. If you think Crede sucks and Fields being 24 is a lock to improve, you aren't being consistent. Crede is gone next year probably no matter what. What should be considered right now is who gives the White Sox the best chance to win in 2008. Initially, if Crede is healthy, he should be the choice. If he faulters, or the Sox fall out of contention then you can give him away and let Fields take over. Ron Kittle hit 35 homers as a rookie. He never hit 35 in a season again.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 09:42 AM) We would be lucky to get any player for Crede right now, I dont know how anyone is saying we should get a legit starter or prospect. He's not even the best 3B available on the market right now. Its ridiculous how much this board overrated Crede. We are going to be lucky to get a player that has even a slim chance at making the mlb roster. If the board overrated Crede, and I refuse to base how he will do this season on what he's done by March 10th after a few at bats and a prolonged absence, then what about KW risking $5.1 million on him? And his superstar to be replacement isn't exactly tearing it up. Why is a few at bats proof positive that Crede is washed up but the same results for Fields means nothing? All Fields has shown in the major leagues is an ability to hit homers. Nothing else yet. Crede sucks because of his OBP, well look at Fields.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 09:52 PM) So if they both suck in ST the rest of the way, who gets the job in the majors? The one who hasn't played ball in 10 months and is struggling after a surgery or the one who was at least decent for your team last year? I'd go with Crede and let Fields find his stroke in Charlotte. If he struggles and Fields hits in Charlotte, you make a change. I don't think it will come to that though. I really didn't think KW would risk the $5.1 million to give Crede away, but now I think by the end of spring training he will be gone unless Fields gets hurt, or unless he gets real hot and Fields plays his way on to the Knights. He'll say it would have be no fair to Fields and too much of a distraction.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 09:45 PM) The problem with that of course is that if it takes Joe an extra month or two to get back in to the swing of playing baseball again, then we've spent the first month or two of the season with a black hole in our lineup not named Juan Uribe, and killed off whatever last bit of trade value Crede might have had. You read what the scout said, he doesn't have any trade value now. Why bother giving him up for nothing? As bad as he's looked, its not like Josh Fields is thriving right now.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 08:24 PM) You hit the nail on the head there Tony. I think the Sox backed themselves into a situation with Danks and Floyd, where they both had to start in 08, and with Floyd out of options, Garland had to go. But really, I think we should have gotten more for JG. We should have asked for Willits as well, and he fills your leadoff needs at CF, and then you don't have to give up 3 spects for Swisher (well you still could, but he plays LF instead). Or you could have asked for a good spect on top of the deal maybe? I mean the Sox traded for Quentin and Richar, because they wanted to get younger players into the everyday lineup. Instead right now they're going with the same old with Uribe, and offensively that just ain't going to cut it. This ST so far, is starting to get frustrating for me. As bad as Uribe supposedly is offensively, his career OPS is just .002 lower than the big upgrade, Orlando Cabrera.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 08:44 PM) Brooks Robinson Jr is not impressing anyone yet. Hot off the presses from Cheats blog. Last spring when Rowand hit .171 the scouts said his bat had slowed and he couldn't play CF. Now he's sitting on a $65 million contract. I think its a little harsh to judge a guy on March 10 when he has 22 ABs, and hasn't played baseball in 9 or 10 months.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 05:39 PM) If he hits .300 with his all or nothing tazmanian devil swing I will be shocked. He will suck for most of the year, and then turn it on in September like he always does. It amazing how you think everyone sucks yet Uribe who pretty much has been a worthless hitter with a glove is magic to you. I like his talent, and while frustrated with his offensive results don't get carried away like others. Uribe's post ASB OPS was higher than Orlando Cabrera's. As inconsistent as Uribe is, his numbers at the end of the year are about as consistent as anybody's. Weak all around except for homers and rbis. I'm the negative guy, but I've also stuck up for several others including the closest thing to a HOFer on the current roster, Jim Thome who if you read this board, lost his power last year, and getting on at a .400 clip isn't good enough. As for the Sox line-up, I like AJ, I like Konerko, I like Crede, I'm not as high on Fields. Swisher is good. Dye is decent but probably not worth the money at this stage, I don't like Owens. I hate Floyd. I think Danks is going to take time. I've stuck up for Contreras since he was acquired. I'm not a Vazquez guy, but he was good last year. I don't think Jenks will have a long career, but he's effective. I think KW has made a lot of mistakes. The biggest since winning was identifying what it really was that won. It wasn't "Ozzie ball", the team hit 200 homers in 2005, and when they hit their 200th in 2006 they had scored the same amount of runs,it was pitching, and while he added Vazquez he made the bullpen, which is now more important than ever, the team's biggest weakness. He had to spend this year to fix it, hopefully it works. Linebrink wouldn't have been my first choice but it was something he had to because of his past decisions.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 05:31 PM) He was playing for a contract last year. How did that work out. Not really. If he hit .300 with 30 homers, he would of been paid $5 million this year. If he does it this season, some moron will give him a boatload of dough for several years.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 05:19 PM) I agree with the first part regarding Quentin. I don't understand the second part. You don't think Richar will hit enough, but Uribe will? I like the idea of Uribe playing for a contract. He has a lot of talent.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 04:41 PM) Just to throw a log on this fire... Crede is hitting .095 this spring. Its probably the long absence from seeing live pitching, more than anything else. But its not helping his trade value probably. Fields is hitting .105. Maybe they should just piss everyone off and get rid of both of them.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 11:57 AM) This article in today's Trib has a few interest notes/surprises in it. Among them... --Uribe is a "slight favorite" for 2B --Richar's back is not healing well --Quentin "needs a major rebound to beat out Brian Anderson for the backup outfield spot" --Masset and Wassermann still competing for the last pen spot Anderson over Quentin? Seriously? Or is this just talk to boost BA's value? I still don't get the Masset/Wassermann thing. They are not remotely comparable pitchers. I think its much more down to MacD/Wassermann, with Masset a near-lock, since he's out of options. Quentin hasn't been 100% physically. If it truely was/is a competition for a roster spot, BA has beaten him out to this point.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Mar 5, 2008 -> 01:33 AM) Sox didn't sustain an injury last season. They sustained 3 to the guys on the major league team who play 3rd base (Crede, Ozuna, and Cintron), and traded the other (Mackowiak) midseason when the season no longer mattered. This was more or less a moot point at third as Fields took over there as expected as plan B once Crede went down. Andy Gonzalez didn't see regular time until the very end of the season when Fields was being tried out in left. Any Guy who Disagrees: "Gonzalez was worthless out there. I should never have to see my Sox put that kind of crap player on the field." Me: "Yes you should. When the season no longer matters at all, when 3 potential 3rd basemen are down with injuries and a 4th is traded, when the starting 3rd baseman from AAA has been moved to left field, you should see the starting AAA shortstop (the 6th option down the list after Crede, Fields, Ozuna, Mackowiak, and Cintron) get some playing time." They may have been forced to put him on the field, but guys like Burgiose (sp) didn't get a shot at all, and apparently deserved one. There is no defending having him lead off. None. Andy played in 67 games. Cherry pick his top 4 offensive games where he went a combined 11-14 and he hit .137 the other 63. Add to that some less than stellar work with the leather and a case could be made a beer league is more his level.