Dick Allen

If you're going to the game, bring a coat. Its freezing down here.

Phil is being rather selective in his article, and the fact is teams that stand pat generally decline the next season. Keeping the 2005 team in place would not have made a difference in 2006, and there are still issues in 2007 that need to be addressed. Mediocre baseball has been played for too long now to think the White Sox are one of the top teams in the league without any doubt. I like the line about Jerry Krause Disease. While I don't know if its quite like that yet, I've noticed KW thinking his s*** doesn't stink since the title. A bold move or two, maybe even taking on some payroll may shake this team up enough to get better. The thing that concerns me is we are now all resigned to the fact that our free agents will be leaving once their contracts are up. This was the pre-championship attitude, and it seems to have returned very quickly.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ May 20, 2007 -> 07:46 AM) If people thought the first two were ugly, wait till you watch this one. Masset will get the s*** kicked out of him and there ain't no way in hell we score more than one of Big Z. My final score prediction: 9-1. I'm not a big fan of Masset, but if he throws strikes, I think the Sox have a chance today.

QUOTE(greg775 @ May 20, 2007 -> 12:47 AM) Why does everybody say the wind will be blowing in for Sunday's game? Is Mother Nature that predictable? What if it's swirling to right or blowing out? How do we KNOW it's gonna blow in??? Skilling's forecast was for winds from the NE which is straight in at the Urinal. I live by the lake a couple miles south of Wrigley and can tell you right now the wind is definitely off the lake and its pretty cold. Those coming to the game from the suburbs should bring a coat. Its probably a lot colder here than away from the lake.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ May 20, 2007 -> 01:42 AM) I know right, whats with all these young players having struggles???? That's a good point. Maybe if struggling is to be expected, which I agree that it probably is with young players, the bullpen of a team expecting to win a championship shouldn't be loaded with them. Phil Rogers has an interesting article today. The White Sox are 54-62 since right before the ASB last season. Maybe that's where they are at and nothing much more than that can be expected from this group. I wouldn't say blow it up as the topic of this thread suggests, but I would say its time for some changes. Its doesn't look like where we and the White Sox want this team to be in October is likely or even possible with the current arrangement.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 20, 2007 -> 12:32 AM) Cheat brings up a fair point about the bullpen btw, as much as people don't want to hear it. It would be, but not in the middle of May with the light week the White Sox have had. He didn't say the bullpen hasn't sucked, just that they hadn't as much as the offense, which could be true, but thats like someone telling you that you are better looking than Ron Karkovice. Usually I agree with his observations, but I'm not buying this one. I think the bullpen is short. Sunday Sox lose 11-1 bullpen 3 IP 7 R Monday off Tuesday off Wednesday Sox win 5-3 bullpen 2.2 IP 1 R Wednesday Sox lose 8-1 bullpen 2.1 IP 4 R Thursday Sox win 4-1 bullpen 2 IP 0 R Friday Sox lose 6-3 bullpen 1.2 IP 3 R Saturday Sox lose 11-6 bullpen 1 IP 6 R That's 12.2 IP and 21 runs allowed for the bullpen in a week. A couple of blowouts and a couple of days off. There are absolutely no excuses for this kind of performance. Actually, the excuses have to end for any of the White Sox failures now.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 19, 2007 -> 10:21 PM) How dare you say all these 97 mph guys suck? Last time I checked, only Jenks and Thornton have sniffed 97 mph. Aardsma, MacDougal, and Sisco have all been around 92 mph consistently this year. Aardsma got off to a great start, but he was also able to throw the ball wherever he wanted. He's not nearly as good of a pitcher as he showed during the first month. He needs to stay on top of the ball, or else he's going to continue to tail that fastball over the heart of the plate for righties (a big problem for Vazquez as well). I also thought pitching in "high leverage situations" was part of the job description.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 19, 2007 -> 10:17 PM) http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines Ozzie admitting that Pinella got him today. I guess no one in the clubhouse was watching the TV coverage when Pinella said Lee could definitely be used to PH. Sad thing was I read it online in the morning. Ozzie should read the paper instead of listening to North.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ May 19, 2007 -> 10:16 PM) So when was the last time they were handed a 5-run lead? 5-run deficit? They're pitching in high leverage situations EVERY GAME! Its not bothering the starters. They are going 6 or 7 every night. Jenks has the 9th, so that's 2 innings tops they have to get through. If they are already blown out by it on May 19th, they suck even more than words describe.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ May 19, 2007 -> 10:11 PM) Jesus, we're gonna get f***ing swept... Maybe not. At least Santana isn't on the mound tomorrow, or they probably should just forfeit. The wind will be blowing in. I'm hoping they can get into Zambrano's head, because he will be all fired up scratching his balls like nobody's business. Konerko and Dye are starting to show signs of coming to life.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ May 19, 2007 -> 10:01 PM) Not nearly as much as the offense. It's just amplified because they're called upon in a tight situation nearly every game because the offense can't score enough to make quality starts stand up easily. The only two victories that the bullpen wasn't called on with the Sox leading by 3 or less were the comlete games by Buehrle and Contreras. Everything else was You can't win games like that. You need a breather. And not just once every 6 weeks. You need a laugher probably once a week to really have a healthy bullpen. The offense just hasn't allowed the bullpen any low leverage innings this season. The starters have been going 6 or 7 innings almost automatically. In 8 of Jenks' 13 saves, he's entered the game with a 3 run lead. I think its a stretch to think the bullpen needs a breather.

QUOTE(Chi Town Sox @ May 19, 2007 -> 09:21 PM) no felix diaz won the game at the cell, i was present although he did lose at wrigley that july That's correct. I was thinking of the game at the Urinal.

QUOTE(AirScott @ May 19, 2007 -> 09:27 PM) "if they had a stellar bullpen" How do you go about building a stellar bullpen? Usually, that's lucked into. Cliff Politte's career ERA is 4.40, but he was the setup man for the stellar 2005 bullpen, posting a 2.01 ERA and holding opponents to a .181 batting average. Neal Cotts' career ERA is 4.43, but in 2005 he finished at 1.94 and opponents hit .174 against him. Hermanson's career ERA: 4.21. Hermanson's 2005 ERA: 2.04. For the Twins last year, wasn't Dennys Reyes awesome for them? The guy has a 4.48 career ERA, yet posted a 0.89(!) ERA last year. Remember Guillermo Mota? LaTroy Hawkins? Whatever happened to them? This bullpen isn't on the level it was at in 2005, but they can still turn it around. Look at the ERAs of these guys before they started getting hit around. You telling me Aardsma didn't look that good before yesterday? Aardsma has had a few shaky outings and has been great others. Basically just like his short career has gone. KW built the bullpen and impressed a lot of people with the velocity, but who has had sustained success in the major leagues? Aardsma? No. Thornton? No. Sisco? No. MacDougal? No. Logan? No. Masset? No. Jenks? Some, but he was less than dominant the second half last year. Forget the radar readings, chances are this bullpen is going to struggle. Most have had control issues before or they wouldn't have been available in the bargain bin. The White Sox don't want to pay the going rate for guys who have strung together a few quality years of work together, and that's their prerogitive. I don't understand though how you give Vazquez all that money when you had him under your control through 2008, and go cheap on the bullpen. Vazquez will be a question mark every season he is a White Sox. You could have 2 or maybe even 3 quality relievers for the money you will be paying him. If you go the way the Sox have gone, chances are the bullpen is going to fail you more than you think. To answer your question about building a bullpen, spending some money on it is a start. The 6 bullpen guys make a combined $3,675,000 a year. Thats 6 guys making just a tad more than Pods, COMBINED. A lot of people in the know thought Justin Speier would be a White Sox in 2007. The White Sox didn't want to pay the going rate. The Angels got him. The Angels have a good bullpen. And you are right, a lot of things went right for the Sox in 2005. Things we may never see again. There was a lot of luck involved, but that doesn't take anything away from the accomplishment. Every team that has ever won a WS has been very lucky.

QUOTE(GarlandFan20 @ May 19, 2007 -> 09:08 PM) Anyone remember Felix Diaz starting the third game of the Cubs/Sox series at the cell? I think it was in '04 and the team was down 2 games also. It kind of reminds me of that. Maybe Masset will hold his own. It was the second game of the series and the Sox lost. I'm pretty sure it was the one with 3 rain delays and then they called it when it actually was sunny out because the dump was more unplayable than your average little league field with no tarp.

QUOTE(AirScott @ May 19, 2007 -> 09:03 PM) I've said a few times in another thread, Aardsma's ERA was 1.64 before this mess. MacDougal's ERA was 3.09 less than two weeks ago, then he allowed three runs without recording an out to raise the ERA to 5.40, where it's at now. He did, however, combine for 1.2 innings, no hits, no runs, a walk and two strikeouts in his two appearances before yesterday's. He seemed to finding the zone again just fine, you have to remember bouncing 55-footers is the usual for him. Friday's just came at a bad time. Boone Logan...he's still young, still figuring it out. On Lee's grand slam today, Logan had fallen behind 3-1 with nowhere to put him. He needs to get ahead of guys. Thornton's coming around -- six outings this month, and he's allowed no runs and a hit. Walking nobody, too. Yeah, he throws a lot of first pitch fastballs, but he really only throws fastballs. Sisco was at a 3.72 ERA as recently as May 12 before he allowed five runs combined in his last two appearances. Masset, he was at a more respectable 4.62 ERA before four runs in 2/3 innings May 13. What I'm saying is, it's been a bad run recently for the bullpen. If you're going to consider the overall numbers of a bullpen, look at their recent performances. When it's been bad, it's been BAD, but the bullpen shut down the Yankees in Games 1 and 3 of that series. So don't overreact. I'm sorry. The bullpen has been asked to get fewer outs than any bullpen in the major leagues, and they aren't getting it done. As Bill Melton said a week or 2 ago, even when they aren't giving up runs, the majority of them are struggling. It does not bode well. We are a quarter of the way through the season, and when the Sox play in weather above 40 degrees, the bullpen has been a gas can. Something needs to get straightened out quickly, or kiss the season goodbye. There is absolutely no reason the White Sox shouldn't have won at least 1 of the last 2 games, and if they had a stellar bullpen, the bullpen KW and Ozzie insisted they had, it would be the White Sox going for a sweep tomorrow. I have no confidence in Masset tomorrow, I am just thankful the wind will be blowing in, and hoping it keeps the score down .

I think tomorrow could be interesting. The wind will be blowing in, so runs should be tough to come by. I hope Zambrano doesn't have his control and struggles early like he's done several times this season. A 3 or 4 run lead should be safe tomorrow even for the White Sox bullpen.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 19, 2007 -> 07:39 PM) Agreed, although I'd also point out I think our bullpen arms have just as much, maybe more trouble with throwing QUALITY strikes than they do say avoiding walks. It seems like any strike our pen guys throw lately are right down the middle in the wheelhouse. That goes hand in hand with lack of control. Maybe if they were throwing 97 like advertised, they could get away with it more often. I wonder why White Sox pitchers seem to lose velocity quickly.

People were more concerned about the radar gun when putting the bullpen together than effectiveness. A lot of people on this site bought it as well. They really shouldn't complain.

The White Sox bullpen sucks. It sucked last year, and its really no better this season. The starters are doing fairly well. Vazquez melted down a little bit, but the wind was blowing out and he kept the Sox in the game.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:04 AM) Wind blowing out doesn't favor us today. Probably not, but I do like that it looks like Derek Lee won't be starting. Vazquez hopefully fans a lot of guys. Marquis doesn't fan many, some lazy flyballs hopefully will find their way over the weeds and into the basket.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:02 AM) If Hall is at DH because Thome is on the bench, that means AJ is behind the plate and I'm guessing that there is also a lefty on the mound. Historically Thome is a better hitter than AJ against LHP, so it makes no sense. This board is full of b****ing about Thome against LHP last season. The bottom line with Thome is when he's hot, let him face everything, when he's not, sitting him against some lefties isn't a bad idea. He needs to get back soon, and stay healthy.

The wind will be howling straight out. I'll be at this game. I expect Marquis and Vazquez to have higher ERAs after today.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 18, 2007 -> 10:31 PM) Well based on this we should of never fired Von Joshua. The hitting coach doesnt matter. Hell I keep hearing the manager doesnt matter also. Sleepy should still be here as well. If these players now all of a sudden suck because they suck on their own. Then KW should have a fire sale and get out why the getting is good. Ward couldn't get along with anyone. If he was as well-liked as Walker as a human being, he wouldn't have been shown the door. The White Sox had more versatile hitters back then, and they had guys who could take extra bases on the basepaths.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 18, 2007 -> 10:27 PM) Righties bat .197 against MacDougal and lefties hit .417 against him. So its seems that every lefty looks like a Joe Mauer in a groove against him. While righties look like Rob Mackowiak. I would rather face Mack insteda of Mauer. But hey maybe Ozzie's magic 8 bal knows a lot more than stats. I have never been a fan of Ozzie, but if Buerhle was left in, or Thornton was brought in or Aardsma or Logan or anyone else, if Pagan got a hit, and he's basically scorching everything right now, Ozzie would have been a dufus.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 18, 2007 -> 10:19 PM) No what I sad is that some players gain more power as they mature, as in most power hitters. Maybe Greg helped him lift and pull more and gain more power. Whatever. He was a near 300 hitter with near 30 dongs before Greg signed on. So he had little to do with the hitting product that is in front of you today. If a team hits well, and has a good approach I give kudos to the coach and the players. When some of the players hit bad, then its those players. When every single player cant hit collectively, and have the same exact problem then what is it. Just a coincidence. The White Sox have assembled a team that has a lot of the same types of hitters. They don't have guys who slap the ball around except Pods who went from 12 homers in Milwaukee to 0 with the Sox. Konerko was brutal at the beginning of 2003 and hit .275 the second half of that season. Isn't that when Walker took over? He also hit a career high .315 last year. Dye hit .320 with 44 homers last year. If the Sox had the Texas Rangers hitting coach, you would give him the credit, but since its Walker, its probably because Dye "matured". AJ is an example of a guy who has gained power and has changed his approach a bit. The guy is 240 pounds. I read 5 years ago that scouts thought he would be a 25-30 homer guy eventually. I think its mostly on the players, good or bad, and a hitting coach can help. But to say Walker is the reason Dye and Konerko are both hitting over 100 points lower this year doesn't make sense to me.