Dick Allen

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 06:25 PM) I understand he had a good season this year. With that said, his career .350 OBP would have ALOT of people on here upset if he was our lead off man. Not to mention hes getting into that dreaded 30's range where the speed and sb's start dropping off. I mean how many people on here were using the OPS argument against Jerry Owens? Chone will have a sub .800 OPS next year most likely. His SLG has only topped .400 2 out of 6 years. Everyone thought Pods was God in 2005 and his OBP was .351. Don't let Owens .340 average in September fool you. He isn't very good.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:44 PM) The trade would be a financial boon for the Sox. They'd have their CFer for the next few seasons, unless they wanted to ditch Crede altogether, put Figgins (or Fields) at 3B (with the other in left) and go after one of the FA CFers. If they made this happen, I'd just go with Figgins in center, Fields in left and Crede at third, and would look focus the rest of the winter's efforts on improving at SS. The rotation is going to take a hit if Garland is traded, no doubt, but the team is going to be lacking in some area(s) next year unless Kenny can work miracles. Garland, besides 2005 and his victory total in 2006 has been pretty much average at best. I wouldn't advocate going with Gavin Floyd or Broadway, or really even Gio, at least until they earn a spot, but there should be an opportunity to pick up an average pitcher at a fair cost.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:15 PM) A few days ago they were talking on TBS about organizations that do baseball a certain way -- I believe they mentioned the Angels and the Twins, and I would add the Braves, offhand, to organizations that stress fundamentals from the lowest depths of the system all the way to the top, indoctrinating their players from the beginning. Clearly these organizations value defense, fundamental baserunning, opposite field hitting, good approaches at the plate, etc. etc. And it got me thinking: do the White Sox have a system? A White Sox way? I know some, including good friends of mine, argue in defense of Greg Walker by saying, "I'm sure he's the one who tells the hitters to close their eyes and swing as hard as they can." It's a good point, no? But then you look at our system, from the minor leagues up, and you think about our defenders, our hitters, our baserunning -- it's abysmal, and so I really wonder how coherent our organization is. Do we stress things from the beginning all the way to the top? If we do, if we really do, putting much emphasis on these things, then why do we suck so bad at most of them? Why are we now and have for the longest time a terrible offensive team beyond the homerun? Do players tune out the coaches or are they never taught? Whichever it is is an unhappy reality, right? I mean, if players don't listen, then what does that say about them? If our coaches aren't competent, what does that say? I just wish I didn't have to associate my team's system with softball. I guess I'm happy with the Buddy Bell signing, as a result, but only if it's a serious beginning to a complete and drastic overhaul of the way this organization does things. I don't have high hopes, as I question this organization's leadership, but we'll see. The White Sox way appears to be calling kids up who have no idea how to steal bases if they can run. They have no idea how to run the bases. They don't know where to throw the ball. Situational hitting is new. Bunting is like an organic chemistry class.They apparently haven't been told of a cut-off man yet. Then what the Sox do, is get a group of coaches to help teach them these things at the major league level. When that doesn't work, the coach that has been with the team the fewest seasons gets let go, and another is brought into his place.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:41 PM) I absolutely love Scot Shields. So do I

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:39 PM) Oh, gotcha. Ok, that would work better. I'm thinking it would would a little too much better for the Angels to bite.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:38 PM) Is it also worth pointing out that Shields put up horrendous numbers in the 2nd half? .300 batting average against him, .736 ERA. He came back at the end. He was having mechanical issues. He would be the second best pitcher in the bullpen by far if KW acquired him.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:36 PM) No. Add in another top player from the Angels' side and then it's better, but this is just as slanted as the first onje. And it leaves us without a first baseman at all. Paulie would still be here.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:34 PM) How about Garland, Crede and Broadway for Figgins, Shields and Santana.. Then you can put Figgins out in LF, still have room to sign Rowand or Hunter and still have Konerko on the team. Not to mention finally having a decent setup man to get to Jenks... I doubt Pauly would be involved with any deal this offseason but you never know... Any Konerko-Garland package better bring back much more than that. You aren't going to be able to trade Crede until he shows he's healthy. I'm pretty sure if the Angels offered KW the trade you proposed, he would take it in a heartbeat.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:28 PM) Why's it an awful trade? Kotchman was a better player this year than Konerko and going forward I'd rather have Kotchman. I don't like the other part being (essentially) Garland for Figgins + Shields, but the deal would clear close to $50 million off the books (3*$12 + 1*$12). It's an extremely tempting offer, that's for sure, and not even close to being as awful as some of you are making it out to be. At the very least, this makes me happy to know that Konerko isn't off limits this winter. There's some teams out there who could use a guaranteed 25-35 homer guy (Yankees, Halos, Dodgers) and I'd love to see the Sox 'cash in' a bit. I think if KW trades Paulie, he will only trade him to a place he really wouldn't mind going. The Angels definitely fit that. He has limited no trade protection.

This deal would free up a lot of money. It would appear that the Sox would become weaker against LHP though. It would depend on what KW did with the extra money, but I think I would lean toward doing it.

QUOTE(knightni @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 12:41 PM) Unfortunately, Razor is now disposable. That's not bad either.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 11:16 AM) Are you sure it wasn't Tim Raines that you saw and heard? We have two people that know Razor and posted he's as straight edged as they come. straight edged describing Razor. That's pretty good.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 12:12 PM) On top of that, I might add...there are some teams that his style might work better with than others. Torre has always struck me as something of a laid back manager. Maybe not at the Manuel level, but he's certainly no fire-breather like Ozzie. When we were looking for managers in 03, the list came down to guys like Ozzie and Gaston, because the team felt it needed someone to kick the arse of these guys and put a little emotion into them. I still think that with the mix of guys we have, that's the right answer for out group; someone who kicks their tails every now and then. Heck, even with the Yankees, it seems like each of the last 3 years we've heard a story around the middle of the season about how adding some new player to that team, like Abreu or Joba, has suddenly woken up all of those old stars who were starting to get so complacent and relaxed, and how it made that team look suddenly like they were playing much harder. Gaston was as laid back as Manuel. KW liked him because he played for him. The Yankee managerial position is like no other in sports. The owner meddles, the fans are tough, and there is no media frenzy like in that position. Torre lasting 12 years says a lot about him. I think the new guy is going to have a hard time winning over some of the veterans initially.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Oct 7, 2007 -> 08:58 AM) Sorry, I meant to clarify - they didn't say Konerko was going to be moved, they were discussing which Sox players would be attractive to other teams. A caller proposed that Konerko be moved to make room at 1B for Josh Fields, since Konerko had also been a 3B earlier in his career. (The hosts didn't give that idea much credence) I didn't take it as you thought he would be traded. I do think Garland is out the door.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Oct 7, 2007 -> 08:44 AM) I heard on one of the Saturday morning radio baseball programs (I don't remember which station's) that Garland and Konerko are considered to have the greatest trade value. That could be why. Konerko does have limited no trade protection in his contract. He either has become or is extremely close to being a 5/10 guy so he will have full protection.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 7, 2007 -> 01:02 AM) Absolutely, and IMO SB would be a bad agent if he didn't have A-Rod opt-out. The game is a business, and A-Rod has a chance to make even more cash. I don't blame him. With that said, looking at the Yanks roster, as well as talking to a few fans that are die hard Yanks fans like us, the biggest FA moves the Yanks are going to make is locking up their own. ARod isn't leaving NY, and if he does, he certainly isn't coming to the Southside of Chicago. Brian Cashman is on record as saying if ARod opts out, the Yankees will not be bidding for his services. If he opts out the money they get to cover a big chunk of his salary from Texas no longer comes their way. Its pretty big money. In another thread I was thinking Boras can use this with Tom Hicks to get another one of his clients, maybe Andruw Jones a big contract, saying hey I just saved you $10 million a year or so opting out of that, you need a CF.... Cashman's statement may just be part of a game, but if the Yankees lose today and ARod doesn't do much, I have a hard time believing he will be back there next season if he opts out. Its hard to believe a guy with his numbers gets the s*** he gets. He's struggled in the playoffs, but so did Barry Bonds for a while. Someday he'll snap out of his playoff funk with authority.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 7, 2007 -> 02:11 AM) So because Josh wasn't in post season play you are penalizing him? why dont you check out the stats before you make such bold assumptions. Fields is the superior offensive player so far. 178 games .237 .295 .467 .763 32 hr 68 rbi 85 runs 29 2B 100 games .244 .308 .480 .788 23 hr 67 RBI 54 runs 17 2B Go ahead and calculate what Josh would do in the full season that Young had. Then compare players. Young is a good player, but as of now, he isnt what fields is Pretty conveniently you have left off base running. I would think the extra 25 or so steals plus the gold glove like defense would more than make up for the .025 OPS deficit in your comparison. I don't think RBI really come into play considering Young is a leadoff hitter who bats after the pitcher in the NL. While Young strikes out a ton, too much for a leadoff guy, Fields also blows him away in that category, plus Young plays a fantastic CF. Plus Young is about a year younger than Fields. He's 3 months younger than Richar, and we hear how great these guys are going to be that they are just raw. Young is as raw or more raw than either of them and he almost put up a 30/30 season. His future is pretty bright. Young and Fields were actually teammates in Birmingham in 2005 Fields .252 16 HR .341 OBP .409 SLG .750 OPS Young.277 26 HR .377 OBP .545 SLG .922 OPS I'm 100% certain if Josh Byrnes called up KW and offered Young for Fields, KW would accept it quickly before Byrnes was able to change his mind. But enough with all that. I think everyone would agree Young is better than Anderson, which is what this thread is about.

At least for this series, I'm glad Chris Young is a D-Back.

I think there are a lot more GMs who would trade Fields for Young than vice versa.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 05:36 PM) Young's swing is a lot more compact than Josh's, I personally think Chris has a higher upside offensively than Fields. That and he also will steal about 25 more bases a year.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 12:55 PM) The offense tanked last half of 2006 -- and you know that. And you also know that W-L is a crappy measure of how good a pitcher is. Maybe Vazquez does fold under pressure -- I don't know. I do know he did pitch very well down the stretch when the Sox still could have made the playoffs in 2006. Maybe they could have made the playoffs if he did anything the first 4 months of the season. He did have the lead in all but 3 of his starts in 2006. We shall see. He was good in the beginning with the Yankees but awful the second half. They couldn't wait to get rid of him. Next year, the slate will be clean and hopefully the team will be better and Vazquez can pitch like he did this season. It appears it will be vital for the team to do anything.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 07:35 AM) my biggest gripe isnt necessarily with owens personally....i just dont like this organizations infatuation with players whose only good tool is speed..... speed is nice, but its kind of like boobs when you are looking for a wife...good boobs alone wont get it done, you gotta have personality character etc...boobs are just a bonus....if you can run, but only get on base at an average clip while hitting for absolutely 0 power...id file you more under the 1 night stand category...gotta be able to do the other more important things than run first... I think the deal is they are so slow as a team, anyone who can run they find interesting. Anyone who can run, play a postion they need help at and makes minimum is beyond interesting. Personally, I don't think Owens would hit more than .255 if he played everday in games that mattered, and with his lack of power, not just homeruns, it would be a below average lead off man. If the free agents get too pricey, maybe KW makes a run at Co Co Crisp.

QUOTE(max power @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 08:18 AM) Thats kinda sad, really. It really is unbelievable not 1 White Sox pitcher won his first big league start in 8 years. They have had some pretty decent pitchers make their first starts in that time. You would think one or two would bust out with a W every couple of years.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Oct 5, 2007 -> 11:02 PM) Owned. Also, I hate how people allude to inside knowledge of the locker room, but just won't flat out say the info. It drives me nuts. If you're going to say something, say it completely with the whole story. If you don't feel like it, don't bring it up. It wasn't about being owned. She was not looking at what I was referring to.

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 5, 2007 -> 10:52 PM) The press release from the Sox does not state that. "10/05/2007 2:49 PM ET White Sox do not renew contract of third base coach Razor Shines; Reassign bullpen coach Art Kusnyer CHICAGO -- The Chicago White Sox announced that the contract of third base coach Razor Shines will not be renewed for the 2008 season, and bullpen coach Art Kusnyer has been reassigned within the organization. White Sox Manager Ozzie Guillen will conduct the search for both replacements. Shines, 50, originally was hired by the White Sox on June 21, 2000. He managed for six seasons in their Minor League system before being hired as the Sox third base coach on Oct. 31, 2006. Kusnyer, 61, has spent the last 11 seasons (1997-2007) as the White Sox bullpen coach and also held the position from 1980-87. The rest of the White Sox coaching staff will return intact in 2008: manager Ozzie Guillen, first base coach Harold Baines and bench coach Joey Cora return for their fifth seasons; pitching coach Don Cooper is back for his sixth full season; hitting coach Greg Walker starts his fifth full season and sixth overall; and bullpen catcher Mark Salas is back for his second season with the Sox. " The Scott Merkin story on whitesox.com has quotes from Ozzie. 10/05/2007 6:41 PM ET Shines, Kusnyer off the coaching staff Guillen looking to move team in different direction after poor '07 By Scott Merkin / MLB.com Art Kusnyer will stay in the White Sox organization, working with Minor Leaguers. (Ron Vesely/Getty Images) White Sox Headlines • Shines, Kusnyer off White Sox coaching staff • Danks, Floyd have shot at No. 5 spot • White Sox live a 'nightmare' in '07 • White Sox season in review • White Sox end '07 campaign with a loss • More White Sox Headlines MLB Headlines • Indians walk off with 2-0 series lead • Insects a nuisance at ALDS • Pirates cut ties with manager Tracy • TBS ratings soar on Day 1 of playoffs • Glavine will not exercise contract option • More MLB Headlines ADVERTISEMENT print this page | e-mail this page • SoxFest 2008 • Register for '08 season tickets wait list The fact that Razor Shines' contract wasn't renewed for 2008 shouldn't be taken as a direct reflection of the job done by the team's third-base coach during the 2007 season. Instead, manager Ozzie Guillen wants to go a different direction with this particular position on his staff. "Razor did a tremendous job, and I have a lot of respect for him as a baseball man," said Guillen after the move was announced on Friday. "He didn't get fired because he didn't do his job. He got fired because we're going in a different way, need someone out there with different ideas than I have, the coaches have. "I don't think he's the right guy for that situation. But I don't have any complaints about Razor Shines whatsoever. It's just time we have different ideas for next year." Whereas Shines, 50, was let go, bullpen coach Art Kusnyer, 61, was reassigned within the organization. Guillen will lead the search for both replacements, having been given control of the staff's hirings and dismissals by general manager Ken Williams. Kusnyer had held his position for the past 11 years, beginning in 1997, and previously held the same job with the White Sox from 1980-87. He missed the team's road trips in September after undergoing eye surgery. "'Cave,' I think he had a lot of health problems this year," said Guillen, referring to Kusnyer by his commonly known nickname, adding that Kusnyer will stay in the organization, working with Minor Leaguers. "He gave baseball everything in the past, and I think it was time to step out." "It's going to be very difficult to replace [Kusnyer]," added pitching coach Don Cooper. "He will be remembered because of ... let's say his uniqueness. The things he would say. ... I might be doing something at home and just bust out laughing thinking about something crazy he said. He really is one of the unheralded characters of the game. Anyone who knew him or came in touch with him, playing or coaching, I'm sure they will never forget him." If Guillen chooses to stay in-house to find a replacement for Kusnyer, there appears to be plenty of candidates currently serving as pitching coaches within the Minor League system. That list includes Juan Nieves (Triple-A Charlotte), Richard Dotson (Double-A Birmingham) and Curt Hasler (Great Falls), as well as Omer Munoz, who worked with the White Sox this past season. As far as Shines' replacement is concerned, Guillen sounds as though he wants someone who can multitask and work on such fundamental skills as baserunning and situational baseball. "When we talk about the stuff we're going to do, we need someone to step it up and do those type of things," Guillen said. "[bench coach] Joey Cora has a lot of stuff to worry about, and he doesn't need that worry on his shoulders. "This decision, I have to be patient. I have to be the way I did it with Razor. Make sure I push the right buttons. One thing about me, I don't like to fire people, release people, and the last two years, I had to do it with coaches. It's not something I look forward to, but hopefully, I won't have to do it again in my career. But you never know." Guillen hired Shines to replace Tim Raines on his coaching staff last year, with Raines having replaced Rafael Santana. Shines, who joined the White Sox on June 21, 2000, and managed six seasons in the system, was surprised by the move, but not shocked. "Ozzie told me they wanted to go in a different direction. He told me I did a good job," Shines said. "I did the best job I could. I was in the organization for a long time and would like to think I helped a lot of young players get to the Majors." The removal of Kusnyer and Shines from the staff stands as the only changes for 2008, with Cooper, Cora, first-base coach Harold Baines, hitting coach Greg Walker and bullpen catcher Mark Salas returning. On a personal level, Shines would like to continue to coach in the Major Leagues if the opportunity affords itself. Ultimately, though, he became a victim of the team's poor season, with Guillen looking to move in a different direction for improvement, beginning now. "I don't wish them any bad luck," Shines said. "Ozzie Guillen was good to me, and Kenny Williams was extremely good to me. He got me into the organization. I wish all of them nothing bad and only the very best." "I'm the one who [gave him] a shot at the big league level, but unfortunately, it didn't work out," added Guillen. "It wasn't because we win or lose. It's because I need someone to work on some stuff, and he wasn't the right guy to have that job."