Dick Allen

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 09:26 PM) Exactly. Is it Ozzie's fault that when Erstand and Pods go down we get Terrero and Owens. Is it Ozzie's fault none of the relievers can get anyone out? Is he misuing them or are they just not very good. I'll go with not very good. Bob Just like its not Greg Walker's fault that Dye can't hit this season, or the reason whey Konerko has struggled, or why Uribe swings at everything. Pods was interviewed after the game yesterday and he mentioned intensity and effort not being there. If Jerry Manuel were still managing the White Sox, this quote would have been a thread starter and exibit A as to why he is a terrible manager. Ozzie hasn't done that well managing the team IMO. The other day he made 5000 pitching changes in the 9th inning of a 1 run game and wound up with ARod vs. Bukvich with the bases loaded and Jenks wasn't even used. It isn't his fault the team is so bad, but then again it wasn't because of him the team won the World Series, although he was happy to accept all the credit.

Paulie said he can't, so KW went back to his room. I hope the Jacques Jones to the Sox talk is garbage. I'm sick of the Sox picking up guys who can't play on horrible teams.

QUOTE(dasox24 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 02:12 PM) How many of you have never driven without having alcohol in you? I don't care if it's 1 beer. If you've never driven with even the littlest bit of alcohol in your system, then you can talk. Otherwise, shut up. I know I've had a few beers and then driven home. Not nearly enought to make me drunk, but I've done it a couple times, and I bet 90% of you have done it too. If you want the Bears to cut him, fine. If he really does get charged with a DUI, then I would be supportive if the Bears did cut him. However, for those that are saying he's a bad person, etc., for driving under the "slightest" influence, that's just not fair. You're missing the big picture here. Tank is supposedly on his final chance with his employer and perhaps the league. How in the world if you're going to have a couple drinks do you drive a car when you can afford a driver? Worse yet, how stupid do you have to be to be speeding after a couple of beers? With a clean record, its stupid. With Tank's troubled past, and whats on the line, its beyond ridiculous. I wanted the Bears to say goodbye to Tank after his last incident. Angelo will now look and no doubt feel like a fool if/when Tank's test comes back and its above 0. The other sad part about it is someday someone else with the Bears will probably need another chance. Maybe even someone who would actually take advantage of it and become a solid member of society. Angelo won't give it. He doesn't want to be embarrassed again. Who would blame him?

The only decent success Sisco has had in his career has been in KC's bullpen. I'm still not understanding how starting is going to make him better. I wouldn't give up on him though. He's so tall that when mechanics get screwed up, they really get screwed up and it takes a lot longer to return. He's a guy who may be brutal for a while, but 3,4 or 5 years from now might actually be pretty good. I just don't know where you hide him that long.

I'm excited. I haven't seen Pods hit a grounder to second and jog down to first for a while now. I haven't seen him get picked off or caught stealing in ages, its been too long since I've seen his pathetic bunt attempts, and its been months since I've seen a ball bounce off his head in the OF. The over/under on when he's back on the shelf-10 games played.

If this is true, start printing playoff tickets. Seriously, if it is, KW needs to go to therapy.

Kenny Rogers had a nice season debut. 6 innings 2 hits 0 runs

QUOTE(Wanne @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 08:11 PM) What's that saying about a blind squirrel..... I still blame KW. Shaffer was simply (in your best Brando voice)..."an errand boy..." It'll be the same s*** next year....with 15 pitchers being taken with the first 18 picks or some crap like that...then back the the blind squirrel theory. I read that but I'm pretty sure McDowell was an Al Goldis/Larry Himes pick. I do know they wanted Mike Harkey but the Cubs took him right before Black Jack. They also wanted Jeff Jackson from Simeon a couple of years later, but Philadelphia selected him, so they had to settle for Frank Thomas.

Oakland traded him to KC. KC must be serious about wanting to finish in 4th place.

Its just shocking that Tank is in trouble again. He's such a good guy.

I just can't believe how much our standards have dropped. Terrero is hitting .230 and he needs to play more. Josh Fields is hitting .250 and striking out almost half the time he bats and we look forward to seeing him. Sisco and Masset are about as bad as you can be and we want them to go down to the minors to work on being starting pitchers. It is truely amazing how the talent level has dropped off on the major league roster, and the best they can do when they need help in the minors are guys like Prinz and Bukvich. Right now, if you look 3,4,5 years into the future, its only looking scarier.

He has a re-aggravated ankle sprain, so I'm guessing he'll be out a little while more, and is probably an excellent bet on getting hurt a few more times this season. I thought he would have lasted a week. Only off by 6 days and 8 1/2 innings.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 06:48 PM) An organization that ever makes any moves with the approval of their fanbase in mind is a lock to fail. 100 percent lock. You're right. The old saying is you base personnel moves on what your fans want, you'll wind up sitting with them. However, I think they've wanted to bring Rowand back all along.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 06:44 PM) Yeah the struggling bullpen with quality arms like Sisco, Aardsma, MacDougal, Thornton, etc. you can certainly give Kenny a pass on. Nobody was claiming before the season that we had the worst pen in the AL. However, this outfield issue we have was utterly predictable,. Let's say that our outfield was healthy with Erstad, Pods, and Dye and they all played 150 games. We'd STILL have an average-below average OF especially for an AL team I disagree. He went cheap, and he went with a lot of question marks. MacDougal has a hard time staying healthy. Aaardsma was only good part of a season in meaningless games with the Cubs. Sisco's numbers with KC last year were worse than Cotts' numbers with the White Sox. Thornton was a bust until last season. Chances are he would fall back at least some. KW went with radar readings over past history and results, and it bit him on the ass. BP was criticized heavily here when they suggested the Sox may lose 90 games. They pointed out the bullpen would have problems with strikes. With a payroll in the top 5 or 6 in baseball its hard to imagine how they can have as many holes as they do. Erstad, Pods, Crede, and Thome getting injured shouldn't shock anyone. You had to expect Dye to step back a little off last years numbers.Maybe not as much as they have, but more like 2005. Granted, everything that can go wrong probably has, but there still is a lack of fire on that team IMO.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 06:44 PM) You're not getting anything more than two B level prospects right now for Dye. I also think him saying how close he is to going on the DL is a little payback for the Sox brass b****ing about him not demanding that he stays with the Sox. His leg was really bothering him when he rolled into that DP. Harold was talking to him for a second. I was absolutely shocked he remained in the game. I thought for sure we would see Andy Gonzalez again. There are too many poor major leaguers on the White Sox roster. More now then I can remember in a long time.

I just got back from the game and can tell you Dye is about a millimeter from having to go on the DL. Those looking for a big return on a trade for him are going to be dissapointed I believe. Nick Masset is just not very good. He needs to go to the minors and show he can get people out. I think we are not very far from seeing bags on heads at games. People were actually laughing at the Pride and Passion things they put on the pre game video.

It appears years and years of failure have finally caught up with Mr. Shaffer.

I'm picking Erstad. According to Hawk and DJ, his ducksnorts are planned and an artform. Besides he starts everyday and leads off for the White Sox when he's healthy. If Aramis was on the Sox, where would he play?

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 03:55 PM) I didn't say a thing about what their actual potential is or was. You made the point that McCarthy was criticized on this board for being poor as a reliever and I explained why to you. McCarthy being criticized had everything to do with the perception of him by Sox fans. Obviously many of us didn't have that perception of Masset or Sisco, and so they haven't been analyzed as McCarthy has. Additionally, most of us haven't been exposed to Masset and Sisco as much as McCarthy and so we tend to buy into what we are told about them rather than what it is we all saw with our own eyes with McCarthy. Your explaination was flawed with misinformation. Maybe you shouldn't believe everything KW tells you. KW was talking him up as a reliever. He dominated the Mexican League this past winter. If, well he's better as a starter is true for Masset and Sisco, and I have yet to hear that from someone in the White Sox organization, just from some comments on this board, it should be true that McCarthy would be better as a starter, if not for the sole reason, that he has been. We will see where this ends up. I still think people pulled the trigger on a KW steal with this Texas trade way too early. McCarthy is going to be a good pitcher. Danks probably will be one too, but his numbers this year are similar if not worse than McCarthy's last season when Brandon suddenly was a bust and will never be any good according to a few on this board.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 03:26 PM) McCarthy was criticized because he was hailed as some sort of savior for the better part of three years. Sisco and Masset are guys new to the organization, with Sisco especially being a guy no one expected all that much from. That's simply not a good comparison. Masset clearly needs to go down and start in AAA, but because the rest of these pitchers have let us down, it's difficult to do that right now. However, if this goes on for another few weeks, there is probably a pretty good chance Masset gets sent down to work on starting and throwing more strikes. McCarthy got everyone excited in spring training of 2005 when he was for the most part lights out. He was good his first major league start against the Cubs but then was pummelled. He then came back and took over for an injured El Duque and was lights out. He then wasn't part of the postseason roster, and Vazquez was acquired and McCarthy relegated to a relief role. Hardly a savior for 3 years. And unlike Masset and Sisco he had shown he actually could be a decent starter in the minors and had success starting in the major leagues. Just because someone is new to an organization doesn't mean you shouldn't look at their past. McCarthy happens to be younger than them both, just to add to it. McCarthy was totally written off as awful when he failed as a reliever, but 2 guys older, with less success in the minor and major leagues, who can't throw strikes to save their lives, are thought of as potential starters on this board. Crazy. In fact, if Jon Danks had McCarthy's major league numbers in 2005 this season, there would be numerous threads about where his statue is going to be placed.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 02:19 PM) Masset looks pretty good when he gets extended time, and not as a short reliever. Steve Stone was on the other day, saying how Massets future is as a starter and he should be a pretty good one. Didn't Stone also say Masset would be a devastating reliever this year? You can't start if you can't throw strikes. Its amazing the criticism McCarthy got on this board when he suddenly became a relief pitcher and wasn't successful, but Masset and Sisco get nothing but the benefit of the doubt saying they should be starters. Considering Massset is 32-45 with a 4.53 ERA in his minor league career, I don't know where anyone can come to the conclusion this guy is much of anything.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 02:06 PM) Who would you like to see get the first shot in the rotation? And you can put several guys in an order you like in case there are also injuries/somebody struggling/other trades. The list of guys I immediately think of is Masset, Broadway, Floyd, Russell, Egbert, and Gio. Here is my list: 1. Masset (I'm really curious what he would do as a starter) 2. Floyd (With his age, now or never point is nearing as he pitches better at AAA) 3. Egbert (His GO/AO and our ballpark seem like a perfect fit) After that, I don't think Gio is ready, Broadway is doing well at AAA but I don't trust his control enough with the 2 seamer yet, and Russell is struggling way too much at AA for me to think he's ready. IMO, KW would want Floyd in the rotation.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 01:42 PM) Ahh, how humorous it would be if KW were to get Chris Young back in a Buehrle deal... The great Chris Young could come to the rescue- he of the .281 OBP and .715 OPS. He'd fit in wonderfully with this club! How often have you seen him play? How can you base anything on stats? Practice what you preach. Young is going to be a very good player.

He was DFA'd by Billy Beane. I wonder if KW may go after him. He wanted him 4 or 5 years ago very badly.

Supposedly Minaya said he will not give up Milledge or Gomez in a Buerhle deal.