Dick Allen

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Apr 28, 2005 -> 08:24 AM) He didn't really try to get "out of the way", IMO. He just moved a different part of the body in front of the pitch. He didn't duck, or move backwards, he just turned his butt into the pitch instead of his side. Everett had every intention of letting the pitch hit him. If you've been in the box with a guy throwing 95, you'll realize there is very little you can do to get out of the way. Crede was up against a slow curveball. Not only did he make no effort to get out of the way, he made an effort to get in the way.

QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Apr 28, 2005 -> 08:14 AM) So AJ shouldn't have gotten the base when he got hit in the toe or Carl shouldn't when he got hit in the ass since neither made an attempt to get out of the way. Come to think of it, Piazza didn't try to get out of the way on that famous beaning he got from Clemens either If Everett didn't make an attempt to get out of the way, how come that pitch hit him in the back? Turning which is a natural reaction counts towards trying to get out of the way. If he didn't move it would have hit his hip or ribs. Crede dipped his elbow into the pitch with the intent of letting it hit him.

Its a rule that's rarely enforced, but it is a rule. Its like the balk rule in which pitchers must come to a complete stop in the stretch. It was never called until baseball decided to emphasize it, and was called 4 or 5 times a game. It appears to have been de-emphasised, because it is rarely called anymore, and a lot of pitchers don't come to a stop. MLB probably came to the realization that adding 4 or 5 balks to the game really did nothing but make the game longer. The Crede call has been called before. I saw it called twice in the same game with the Sox against I believe KC 4 or 5 years ago. As I have said previously, this all comes down to Wendelstedt's history. Players leaning into pitches happens quite often. If he consistently has called it, the White Sox have absolutely no argument. If he never calls it, or just uses it against players and managers he's had confrontations with, the league needs to discipline him. Discipline him not for calling it on Crede, but discipline him for not calling it the other times. I don't think it would be too hard for MLB to investigate it.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 09:24 PM) To Quote Peter Gammons on BBTN: "C.C. Sabathia could have been a free agent next year, but he signed today (2 years $17.5M) because he wants to be in Cleveland when they win this thing and that's NEXT year." Where does this guy get off? Where does he get his analysis info from? It seems that every program of BBTN he has to try and one up the other loud mouths by topping their stuff with some off the wall comments. Never once a good comment about the Sox. When the Sox traded for Garcia last season, Gammons said they were going to win the World Series. Its good he thinks Cleveland will win next year. He is the kiss of death.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan56789 @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 05:20 PM) This is just like a cop pulling you over for going 21 in a 20. It doesnt happen. Depends on how their doing with their quota. I once got a ticket for going 57 in a 55. I was coming home from college and couldn't make the court date to fight it, so I had to send my fine in.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 05:11 PM) That call was bulls***, period. It's the same situation when a batter turns his back, most of the time if they stand there they won't get hit but since they turn they get hit, same s*** here. The umps sucked dong this series, I'm sorry but they did, the sox didn't play well these last two games but regardless of that being all nicked up and having a short roster right now they win this series with the correct calls by the umps. But when you turn your back it is a natural reaction for getting out of the way. Its one reason why throwing behind someone almost always results in a beaning. Your natural reaction puts you on the ball's track.

I have been watching White Sox baseball religiously since 1971, when I faked being sick as a first grader to watch Beltin Melton hit a homerun on the last day of the season to win the AL home run crown. I have definitely seen at least 95% of the games the past 18 years. This is the 3rd time I have seen this called. The other 2 times happened in the same game about 4 or 5 years ago. Rulebook wise, it was the correct call. I just wonder if Wendelstedt ever called this before, because surely it has happened many times in games in which he worked. If he has called it, I have no problem with it. If he hasn't, its a grudge call, and he should be heavily fined and/or suspended.

QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 05:01 PM) What does that matter... if a ball is thrown inside and im batting I will gladly let it hit me to load the bases up.. Doesnt mean he wants to get the pressure off his shoulders, but as an opportunity to get the bases loaded To lean into it and let it hit you on purpose. You aren't going to be scoring any runs. I would think Joe wants to drive in the big runs. It shows me Joe is still lacking a little confidence. Either that, or maybe he just wasn't seeing the ball well of this particular pitcher. He knew he leaned into it. If he was totally confident he wouldn't have said anything and stepped right back up to the plate.

There's no doubt Crede went out of his way to get hit. Look at the replay over and over and you cannot conclude anything else. Which brings up another point. Crede was too willing to get the pressure of his shoulders to get something done. For a guy who has several game winning hits in his career, I find that disconcerning.

I think the only reason Wendelstedt called it was because it was Ozzie's team. That is terrible umpiring. You cannot hold a grudge. It would be interested to see how Wendelstedt handled the same situation in previous games he worked the plate. I'm sure its happened on numerous occassions.

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 04:47 PM) Respectfully disagree. "Not moving" is hardly ever called. Moving into a slow curveball, when the pitch wouldn't have hit you, is called. Crede definitely moved into the pitch. He dipped his elbow right into it. If he had not moved it probably wouldn't have hit him. I have seen guys move into pitches all the time. DJ even mentioned a famous one, Fernando Vina. He used to do what Crede did 25 times a year.

The bottom line is Crede leaned into it. It is hardly ever called. If Jason Kendall leaned into the same pitch today for Oakland (he's leaned into many before) and they made the call, we would all be saying its the correct call. Wendelstedt holds a grudge. This kind of call is exactly how he gets his revenge.

I noticed the sausage king of Chicago is reading this thread.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 04:22 PM) KW better make a roster move if Uribe is unable to go this wknd. How come teams never end up having to put their outfielders at SS against us? I'm sure he will if that's the case.

The game is still going on if Rowand catches a routine pop-up to CF. The sun is tough in Oakland, but that play needs to be made. The offense was so brutal today, they didn't deserve to win. Still a great trip, a much needed off day, and then beat the crap out of the Tigers.

Crede definitely dropped his elbow into the pitch. In the spirit of the rule, the umpire probably was correct, but that is never called, especially 2 feet in the box. Ozzie got run because he started talking to Wendelstedt like he was Magglio, I could hear it on the Comcast. The thing I don't understand is Wendlestedt then can say whatever he wants to Ozzie after tossing him. Its BS. Crede got run because when he popped up he turned and said the magic words. Not smart. You have to know Wendelstedt is going to do everything within his power to show Ozzie who has the upper hand.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 03:25 PM) Dye is a notoriously slow starter, but why Ozzie hasn't moved his ass out of the #5 spot is beyond me. I don't know where everyone is getting this notoriously slow starter stuff. Check his splits from 2002 on. April is one of his better months. May is one of his worst.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 03:02 PM) Switch that around to Gload in RF, and Everett at DH, and I agree with you. Gload was the last player I saw drop a routine flyball before Dye did last night. I agree about Everett. Someone should burn all his fielding gloves. Either way it would be scary anytime a ball was hit in that direction.

He was known as double play Dye in Oakland. For the love of God, why is this guy hitting 5th. How much of this crap does Ozzie have to see to realize he should be batting 7th or 8th or riding pine.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 02:26 PM) Dye has to play better than this...he's been better than this his whole career, and he should be healthy. He didn't play this bad last year even when he was hurt. He wasn't $5 million good last year. In 2003 he was terrible and very mediocre the year or 2 before that. He is going to hit better than he has, but he is not the 30hr 120rbi player many thought the Sox were getting.

QUOTE(JimH @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 02:08 PM) Holy s***, what is with these umps? Not even close, clearly safe. He beat the relay by 1/2 step easily. Gettin' awful tired of these bad calls. Do you think it may be a result of Ozzie's dressdown of Hunter Wendelstedt last season? If it is, these umpires need to be fined and suspended.

QUOTE(robinventura23 @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 02:04 PM) He may have with the Rockies. That's why I brought it up. Plus, he's a veteran. Oh please. I saw enough of Norton at 3b with the White Sox. There has to be a better option at Charlotte.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 01:50 PM) Dye caught the ball!!!!!!!!!!!! Another Festivus miracle

I agree. The most worrisome thing would be if Harris had to play SS. Ozuna and Uribe both look like they could be out a few days.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Apr 26, 2005 -> 11:41 PM) Timo is out of options and has a guaranteed $1 million contract. He would have to be cut and Uncle Jerry would have to pay off the rest of his contract. Ain't gonna happen. JR gave Eddie Robinson $10 million+ to scram from the Bulls. If KW tells him Timo needs to be gone-he gone.