Dick Allen

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 09:24 AM) I don’t see Boras ever agreeing to that deal without opt-outs. And the moment an opt-out is included, the deal makes zero sense for the Sox. But if there is an opt out after year 2 and he opts out, it means he must have played pretty well and opens up 3B for the other two potential signees, or then they pay him the going rate. If they White Sox will have all this flexibility you have claimed, it’s a non issue. I would admit an opt out after year 1would make zero sense to the team,

QUOTE (ron883 @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 09:26 AM) It's ok to admit you were wrong DA. You dont need to argue your opinion to the death. Exactly what I am wrong about? If Moustakas flops, then I will have been wrong, although I have never mentioned anything about signing him at full price, when will you start the next Jose Abreu is a bum thread?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 09:24 AM) I don’t see Boras ever agreeing to that deal without opt-outs. And the moment an opt-out is included, the deal makes zero sense for the Sox. I don’t think you have anything to worry about. You more than likely won’t have to hatefully watch Mike Moustakas is a White Sox uniform.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 09:06 AM) Ignore the numbers? I’m aware of the numbers. Being the the 3rd or 4th best DH right now doesn’t mean you’re a big contributor. I just said I don’t agree with how the position is being utilized, but clearly ignore that. And I don’t want to pay $12M to $16M on a 1 WAR DH. Us having a lot of money to play with doesn’t mean we have endless amounts of money and it definitely doesn’t mean we shouldn’t allocate it as efficiently as possible. And how often are guys traded a year after signing a multi-year deal? How do you think our players would feel about that? How would future potential free agents feel about that? Things don’t happen in a vacuum and that sends a bad message IMO. And who exactly is trading for him when they could just sign him right now to this disoc***ed deal? Considering Moustakas is getting only one year offers, if the White Sox sign him for 4 years and trade him, most likely to a pretty good team if it comes to that, I don’t think there would be much outrage. And that is not even considering they did it because they gave another player $350 million.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 09:12 AM) Give me an example of a discounted price? 4/$48 million

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 08:59 AM) Yolmer improved his 3-season OPS by over .130 last year. If he takes another step up, he may be more than a utility infielder. The "super utility" guy would be more likely Leury, as he can play OF. He had a similar improvement in OPS, but he also had a bump the prior year (in AAA and the majors). It's pretty clear they can be utility players...the quest is to see if they can become more. But even discovering utility players is helpful - the Sox spent large sums on utility level veterans this decade. Yolmer took a huge leap and was still below average offensively. To expect another one isn’t realistic. Most projections think he will go the other way.He has a nice glove and is perfect as a back up.p on a contending team. No team has ever had too many good players. Let alone the White Sox. If the opportunity to get one for a discounted price comes along, it is probably a good idea to take it. I doubt the price will come down far enough for Moustakas considering his agent and his agents ability to pull things out the last second, but there is probably a small chance, it would probably mean Tyler Saladin would need to hire a mover.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 08:44 AM) With the way pitchers get hurt, probably longer than "second straight." It's a shame. You are right. And there will be more soon, unfortunately.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 08:35 AM) I don’t care how teams are utilizing the position, he’d be a poor, over-paid contributor at DH. And I’ve said multiple times I value the DH spot and don’t really buy into the rotating DH concept. I like a dedicated guy that is a proven plus hitter, which is why I was pushing for a JD Martinez signing all offseason. That would not be Moose. So don’t look at the numbers , ignore all you have said about how much money the White Sox have, ignore he would be a top 3 or 4 DH. Just say he was bad. OK. Why don’t we move on to the other thing that is ignored. If you sign someone else, why couldn’t you trade him?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 08:29 AM) Come on Dick, that’s an obvious marketing piece. He played 3B last year while Tim f***ing Beckham played SS. If needed to play SS why didn’t he force this move last year? I think he’ll be open to 3B or SS as long as he gets paid. Beckham came at the deadline. He wasn’t going to switch then.You can’t be sure. Maybe with the Yankees, the team he loved growing up. He clearly wants to be a SS. Who knows, maybe having Moustakas helps the White Sox cause, knowing he was signed to be a SS. I don’t think his market shrinks if he demands to play SS.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 08:21 AM) It’s not about the money, it’s the fact that Moustakas would be a bad 1B or DH. I just don’t see the allure of Moose unless you’re keeping him at 3B. And I don’t believe in buying average-ish players at this point in the rebuild, not when there are going to be four impact players hitting free agency when it makes more sense for us to spend. Why would he be a bad DH? Before you answer, you might want to check DH stats.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 08:08 AM) I would go after Bryce Harper too, but 3B is a much bigger hole for the organization than the OF. And Harper is going to get an even more ridiculous contract than Machado. Might want to read this if you think Machado solves 3B. He plans to remain a SS. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/c...kees/347912002/

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 07:53 AM) But it doesn’t have to be Machado. Donaldson, Arenado, & Rendon will also be options. The idea we can’t land any of those players is ridiculous. Who are all these teams that are going to outbid us? Once the Yankees land Machado in your scenario they’re out of the equation for the other guys. Maybe the Dodgers eat the last year of Turner’s deal and go after Arenado or Rendon? I honestly think if those two teams are out, we’re in a tremendous spot to land one of the remaining guys. And I’m not completely ruling out the idea we can compete with those teams for Machado or whoever their favorite is, but I’d literally take any of those four guys over Moose. I know the idea of Donaldson gets a lot of hate around here because he’s in his 30s, but the dude is an absolute stud and would be a great addition at the right price. Sure there would be risk, but playing it safe with a Moustakas signing is not how we’re going to compete with the Astros & Yankees. But why don’t you ever mention Bryce Harper?who knows, Avi might return to the former Avi, the more people talk, the more Eloy is a LF. Anyone would take those 4 over Moustakas. But, if your financial scenario is anywhere near correct, signing Moustakas doesn’t preclude going after any of them. You can always upgrade later and fit them in on the roster whether it is trading Moustakas, making him a DH, moving him to 1b because Abreu is no longer there....

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 07:46 AM) Wasn't Harper the guy who blasted sox management on Twitter over the LaRoche (ex teammate/friend) situation? Yea, probably a good reason why he's not talked about around here. And I don't think the "money talks" will apply to Bryce either. He'll get his. I don’t believe he blasted the White Sox.

But why does not anyone pin the legitimacy of the rebuild on signing Harper vs. signing Machado? Harper seems to be the better of the 2 to me, and he is never mentioned. Is there a $350 million cutoff of being cheap? I guess the real question is why is everyone realistic about the chances of Harper being a White Sox, but no so much on Machado? 29 teams aren’t going to sign him, and most of those 29 teams aren’t cheap, could definitely use him, can fit ihim in the payroll, and are either in legit rebuilds or legitimately contenders. Signing Machado should be like winning the lottery. Awesome if it happens, but counting on it is pretty silly.

If signing Machado is necessary for the rebuild to not be a fraud, there is a pretty good chance the rebuild will be a fraud.the rebuild is not a fraud. Being realistic has to come into this. So many people think Machado to the White Sox is going to happen. Why not Bryce Harper? The Sox could use him too? He is dismissed because people know there is no way. There might be a way with Machado, but the chances are very slim.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 04:24 PM) But absorbing a much shorter and less expensive deal in Gonzalez is a deterrent. Yes because Moustakas becomes an asset moving forward, filling a need. Not some guy we hope can be flipped for more guyslike the ones we blew off to hope and pray he turns back the clock 5 years.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 04:19 PM) Lol, so you're going to stick with the argument that the years don't matter at all, and that 60 million dollars isn't meaningfully more than 43 million dollars? And that absorbing Kemp to get a prospect is the same deterrent to Machado as signing Moustakas to be our third basemen? Again you are the throwing out 5 years $60 million. I think 4/48 would be closer to reality. But present day value of having to pay someone even 60 million over the next 5 years is nowhere close to 50% more than having to pay someone 43 million over he next 2. Moustakas becomes an asset that can play a couple o other AL positions, and can also be traded. Something you purposely ignored. Machado wanted to move to SS. How do you even know he would play 3b for the White Sox?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 02:28 PM) 1) It's not similar at all -- Kemp is owed $43m over two years. And more specifically, two years where the payroll will be very low. Even if Moustakas signs for 5yr at $12mm, (which is the most optimistic guess people have been making on this thread, and almost certainly too low if he signs that long of a deal) that's $60mm, which is just shy of 50% more money. And remember, that's a LOW estimate. Also, 60% of that money is distributed after Kemp;s money would be off the books, which just happens to correspond most directly with our projected contention window. 2) Any argument of Moustakas being good enough to build around 2-5 years from now goes completely out the window if he isn't a viable third baseman. You can quibble with PA cutoffs on a list of third basemen last year all you want, but his current level of production is flat-out not acceptable at 1B/DH, and ESPECIALLY not as he moves into his 30's and declines. Your arguments in this thread have been so purposely misleading just because you don't like Moustakas. Don't worry the Sox aren't going to sign him, but paying someone $60 million over 5 years, and I doubt the Sox would give him 5 years, probably 4 at most, (considering Heyman said all he has is several one year offers) and paying someone $43 million this year and next, is, in reality, a lot closer than the 50% difference you are exaggerating again.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 01:15 PM) Mannnnnnnn It sucks but I am sure he will go on the 60 day DL and it will at least temporarily open up a roster spot for a non roster guy.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 12:30 PM) Per MLBTR; Sounds like he may be very cheap (relatively speaking) AND no loss of a draft pick to boot. Much more upside with Morrison than a washed-up CarGo. The Kenny always gets his guy crowd would be satisfied as well. He is what the Sox initially wanted as compensation for Ozzie Guillen.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 12:30 PM) What? Matt Kemp's deal is two years, and he is an OF who won't even necessarily demand playing time. The hypothetical being used through this entire thread is that Moustakas would come on a 4-5 year deal, and he plays the SAME POSITION as Machado. How can you possibly think that has the same effect? You seriously think the White wouldn't give Machado a ten year deal because they'd have to carry Kemp's dead money in year one? You seriously think the White Sox having $12-15mm committed to third base already for 5 years WOULDN'T affect their willingness to get Machado? Yes. There is always DH, 1B for Moustakas. SS for Machado. You could even trade Moustakas. The money between taking Kemp and signing Moustakas, is probably very similar.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 11:38 AM) He also spent somewhere around 6 months down from a back injury, and may well need time to get back into shape both physically and mentally. Do you really think we have enough talent in the system as of today? No. But CarGo doesn't exactly move the needle. I would rather see what the Sox do have right now. 11 OF on the 40 needs to be paired down. Let's see who can play.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 11:20 AM) We don't even know that these guys will be ready for the big leagues out of camp. Cordell will be 26, if he needs more minor leagues, he isn't much of a prospect. Gillaspie is 25, he probably isn't ready his .210 average and .300 OBP in Charlotte is pretty good evidence. You also have Daniel Palka, Willy Garcia...if you would rather pay a few million to a washed up ex star because if he happens to be good you may acquire another guy you will pass over, I don't see the point.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 11:16 AM) Agree with you and DA. I can see where people are coming from in wanting to sign Moustakas since he plays 3B but CarGo? Nah, the Sox have plenty of outfielders and DH's. It wouldn't piss me off like Holland did last year. But for it to really work out, some odds would have to be beaten, and if they aren't, you wasted a opportunity looking at others, and they may not get that opportunity again.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 11:04 AM) Well other than the fact that he’s no longer good at baseball and trending even worse in the wrong direction. using eminors round down the WAR system, CarGo hasn't been above average since 2013.