Dick Allen

If signing Machado is necessary for the rebuild to not be a fraud, there is a pretty good chance the rebuild will be a fraud.the rebuild is not a fraud. Being realistic has to come into this. So many people think Machado to the White Sox is going to happen. Why not Bryce Harper? The Sox could use him too? He is dismissed because people know there is no way. There might be a way with Machado, but the chances are very slim.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 04:24 PM) But absorbing a much shorter and less expensive deal in Gonzalez is a deterrent. Yes because Moustakas becomes an asset moving forward, filling a need. Not some guy we hope can be flipped for more guyslike the ones we blew off to hope and pray he turns back the clock 5 years.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 04:19 PM) Lol, so you're going to stick with the argument that the years don't matter at all, and that 60 million dollars isn't meaningfully more than 43 million dollars? And that absorbing Kemp to get a prospect is the same deterrent to Machado as signing Moustakas to be our third basemen? Again you are the throwing out 5 years $60 million. I think 4/48 would be closer to reality. But present day value of having to pay someone even 60 million over the next 5 years is nowhere close to 50% more than having to pay someone 43 million over he next 2. Moustakas becomes an asset that can play a couple o other AL positions, and can also be traded. Something you purposely ignored. Machado wanted to move to SS. How do you even know he would play 3b for the White Sox?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 02:28 PM) 1) It's not similar at all -- Kemp is owed $43m over two years. And more specifically, two years where the payroll will be very low. Even if Moustakas signs for 5yr at $12mm, (which is the most optimistic guess people have been making on this thread, and almost certainly too low if he signs that long of a deal) that's $60mm, which is just shy of 50% more money. And remember, that's a LOW estimate. Also, 60% of that money is distributed after Kemp;s money would be off the books, which just happens to correspond most directly with our projected contention window. 2) Any argument of Moustakas being good enough to build around 2-5 years from now goes completely out the window if he isn't a viable third baseman. You can quibble with PA cutoffs on a list of third basemen last year all you want, but his current level of production is flat-out not acceptable at 1B/DH, and ESPECIALLY not as he moves into his 30's and declines. Your arguments in this thread have been so purposely misleading just because you don't like Moustakas. Don't worry the Sox aren't going to sign him, but paying someone $60 million over 5 years, and I doubt the Sox would give him 5 years, probably 4 at most, (considering Heyman said all he has is several one year offers) and paying someone $43 million this year and next, is, in reality, a lot closer than the 50% difference you are exaggerating again.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 01:15 PM) Mannnnnnnn It sucks but I am sure he will go on the 60 day DL and it will at least temporarily open up a roster spot for a non roster guy.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 12:30 PM) Per MLBTR; Sounds like he may be very cheap (relatively speaking) AND no loss of a draft pick to boot. Much more upside with Morrison than a washed-up CarGo. The Kenny always gets his guy crowd would be satisfied as well. He is what the Sox initially wanted as compensation for Ozzie Guillen.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 12:30 PM) What? Matt Kemp's deal is two years, and he is an OF who won't even necessarily demand playing time. The hypothetical being used through this entire thread is that Moustakas would come on a 4-5 year deal, and he plays the SAME POSITION as Machado. How can you possibly think that has the same effect? You seriously think the White wouldn't give Machado a ten year deal because they'd have to carry Kemp's dead money in year one? You seriously think the White Sox having $12-15mm committed to third base already for 5 years WOULDN'T affect their willingness to get Machado? Yes. There is always DH, 1B for Moustakas. SS for Machado. You could even trade Moustakas. The money between taking Kemp and signing Moustakas, is probably very similar.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 11:38 AM) He also spent somewhere around 6 months down from a back injury, and may well need time to get back into shape both physically and mentally. Do you really think we have enough talent in the system as of today? No. But CarGo doesn't exactly move the needle. I would rather see what the Sox do have right now. 11 OF on the 40 needs to be paired down. Let's see who can play.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 11:20 AM) We don't even know that these guys will be ready for the big leagues out of camp. Cordell will be 26, if he needs more minor leagues, he isn't much of a prospect. Gillaspie is 25, he probably isn't ready his .210 average and .300 OBP in Charlotte is pretty good evidence. You also have Daniel Palka, Willy Garcia...if you would rather pay a few million to a washed up ex star because if he happens to be good you may acquire another guy you will pass over, I don't see the point.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 11:16 AM) Agree with you and DA. I can see where people are coming from in wanting to sign Moustakas since he plays 3B but CarGo? Nah, the Sox have plenty of outfielders and DH's. It wouldn't piss me off like Holland did last year. But for it to really work out, some odds would have to be beaten, and if they aren't, you wasted a opportunity looking at others, and they may not get that opportunity again.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 11:04 AM) Well other than the fact that he’s no longer good at baseball and trending even worse in the wrong direction. using eminors round down the WAR system, CarGo hasn't been above average since 2013.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 10:51 AM) We have CF for him, possible trade/release of CarGo depending on if he is good or bad, possible trade of Garcia, possible struggles of young guys getting early at bats and being sent to minors (Tilson, Engel, Delmonico, etc.). And you have Leury Garcia. The Sox have 11 OF on their 40 man. GarGo can DH, but it's also a spot to rotate some guys in for major league ABs. There is more downside than CarGo just sucking or being average, and the Sox being out a few million. It does take away some opportunity. Maybe they all would be awful anyway, but at least you would have an answer. The closer Jimenez and Robert and the rest get to the big leagues, the more the opportunity to give modestly rated players a chance closes.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 10:47 AM) If we sign Gonzalez and he turns into a Casey Gillaspie or Ryan Cordell, I'd call that a win. Ironically, acquiring him could be at the playing time expense of these players. Although Gillaspie can use more time in Charlotte. That's pretty clear. But Cordell needs major league ABs or he will be another guy we all forgot existed in a year or two.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 10:44 AM) Yeah and he and CarGo can share the DH spot in a straight platoon. Make Davidson earn every day at bats. What about Cordell? He'll be 26 years old. It's time for him to s*** or get off the pot?

QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 10:23 AM) Probably something along the lines of what Beltran went for with the Rangers depends on how well he is hitting at the time of deal. Of course such a return is wholly dependent on if/how he rebounds and what he signs here for (1 year deal, 2 year deal) https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/08/indi...-as-likely.html So if everything goes right, a previously pretty highly rated prospect who was struggling at the time of the trade.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 10:13 AM) Honestly--IF--he proves he can hit anything remotely close to what he has in the past (and stay healthy of course), I think we could get an organizational top 10 plus a wild card if we were able to sign him below market value. That and some jersey sales. So is that worth what we would pay him between now and then? Lot of things would have to go right. I think it's a waste, but it's a better idea than Derek Holland for $6 million last year.

How does anyone with all their mental faculties support this guy?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 09:57 AM) For the record I have still yet to see anyone reputable saying that the Sox ARE TALKING to Moose, and not that he is the best logical fit for Moose. I don't think there would be much discussion considering the agent. I'm pretty sure if there will be a signing, it would be to the White Sox liking contract wise. So, I would think for that to happen, just about all other avenues will have to have been exhausted, and he still has the spring training injury door that hasn't closed.

The guy has pretty much been average to bad for 4 years, and is streaky as hell. What, realistically would you get on a flip for him if everything goes right?

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 09:42 AM) Ok but I'm talking about drafted arms. Some thought Burdi was a reach in the first round due to being a reliever, but if he becomes elite, or just a guy you can rely on, it's a great pick. Not every first rounder is a superstar.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 09:24 AM) I asked this in November in a catch all. Could only find some Toronto blogs asking to sign him. Nothing on the guy himself. I wonder if he's still recovering. I found something, and it's very weird. https://jaysjournal.com/2018/02/22/blue-jay...y-brett-lawrie/

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 09:04 AM) The difference is that Matt Kemp's money only covers two years and would purchase a sub-market asset with 6 years of control. It would be spending money now to save money in the future. Theoretically. But if you're paying Matt Kemp $23 million this year and next, do you really think Manny Machado is a possiblity? The facts are, it doesn't add up. Kemp alone will be paid not too much less than Moustakas will ultimately sign for. So if trading for Matt Kemp wasn't going to prevent the White Sox from spending a ton in free agency, neither will signing Moustakas, and you have a back up plan already in place, just in case the $300 million + man, and the $150 million + middle 30s man somehow defy all logic and odds and don't choose the White Sox.

RE: Money. Why, as I have read on these boards, do the Sox have money to trade for Matt Kemp if a prospect comes along, have money to trade for Corey Dickerson to DH, have money to sign Manny Machado or Josh Donaldson. But if they sign Mike Moustakas to a team friendly contract, they have pretty much used all of their capital, and are screwed moving forward?

Heyman did have an interesting White Sox note, whatever happened to Brett Lawrie? I know he wasn't the greatest, but he must really be messed up physically not to garner a spring invite from someone.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 08:37 AM) What do you mean by Rosenthals on the DL? He had back surgery. Hopes to be back by Opening Day.