Dick Allen

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 08:53 PM) And that would be relevant if the White Sox had also opened a beautiful new stadium in 2010. Minnesota averaged 27,408 last year when they had a playoff competitive, winning team for the entire season. In 2014, when they were terrible and had no young stars like Sano and Buxton coming up, 27,785. Horrible fans, right? They finally have a winning team after 4 years of rebuilding and attendance actually declined. The White Sox averaged roughly 33,000 per game the first five years of their new stadium, despite all the issues with the new facility. In year four, they were still averaging over 32000 per game. Year Five....1995....22,358 despite being one of the best teams in baseball. Now why did that happen? What would the Sox draw after 99, 96, 96, and 92 loss seasons?

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 08:45 PM) If you are going to act like a child and derail conversations the way you like to do, you'll be treated like a child. LMAO. The guy who started a thread last year how he was going to change allegiances because the team didn't win enough. He decided not to because he would rather complain, so in essence he would rather complain about a team than have them win. And this is one who refers to someone else as being childish. OK.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 08:36 PM) If you have a question, raise your hand and wait until you're called upon. That is good. No surprise you have no answers.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 08:31 PM) Only approach the bench when summoned, please. If you have all the answers, why don't you either let them know or share them with us.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 07:26 PM) And I have yet to see anyone make credible arguments for other fanbases performing exceedingly well in the face of similar circumstances (going on nine years now without a playoff appearance), other than the Cubs, Cardinals and Tigers, who have an owner who consistently puts profitability behind winning in terms of priorities. Because of those anomalous examples, any fanbase would look bad in comparison. I suppose you could also argue the Brewers, but they had Bud Selig pulling the strings to provide his daughter every possible benefit during his tenure. And, if you exchanged the two respective stadiums, the results would probably be quite different in Milwaukee. Is there any other team in baseball whose fans are similarly under attack for (supposedly) not supporting their team? Tampa Bay? Oakland? Cleveland? Miami? The Atlanta Braves? (they blamed location and fan fear of the downtown area, especially at night...hence, a new suburban stadium). Are Reds' fans to be blamed this year for not turning out, for example, or Rockies' fans? Padres? Eliminating the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, Giants and Cubs, since I'm sure everyone would agree those are the true large market clubs, the White Sox clearly don't compare with the Cardinals and Tigers, but what other mid-market teams are doing exceedingly well generating revenues without making the playoffs? Even the Mets have/had struggled greatly in recent years in a much newer stadium, for example. The Twins went through a total rebuild and have outdrawn the White Sox 7 years in a row .

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 08:22 PM) They ARE a large market team - they play in the city of Chicago. They don't operate as a large market team because they haven't ever figured out how to win in a sustainable fashion in order to build up this revenue base of which you speak. Send them your resume.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 06:30 PM) Other renovating teams have finished their boards already. I hope ours don't drag into the season. 2 of them are done, and the big one will be done in the middle of March, almost a month before the season starts.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 04:34 PM) The only things I've read were sports writer's writing a blurb about their local team and how Jackson could be a fit for their OF opening or adding him as a potential depth piece. Teams like Texas, Baltimore, Cleveland, cubs, Twinkies etc. Nothing that has any substance though, just a sports writer's take. Fowler and Desmond has had some seemingly genuine speculation but absolutely nothing has been rumored about Jackson. Heck, even Alvarez has had more speculation here lately. This has been a very strange off season. I think the ask price is so high, once teams hear of it, they don't even bother. I would imagine if you wanted to sign one of Desmond, Fowler, or Jackson today, and announce it tonight or tomorrow, the contract you would have to agree tis nowhere near what most of us think their eventual price will be.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 04:01 PM) No, I didn't. Desmond #2 ?? How can that be when you have Correa of Houston, Crawford of SF, Seager of LA, Tulo of Toronto, Russell of Cubs, Espinoza of KC, Whatshisname in Boston? and others Crawford, Boegarts, Lindor, Correa..., that #2 in baseball is just another thing Caulfield made up.if teams actually thought that, he wouldn't be out there right now.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 03:52 PM) I frankly haven't read anything at all about Sox and Jackson. Have you read about Jackson and anybody? I read some speculation but no actual talks. Considering Boras got Kennedy $70 million, I would think Jackson's price is still quite high right now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 03:35 PM) LaRoche literally should never face LHP. He should be benched any time a lefty comes in. That is reality - however it's not practical. You can't ph for him every time, although that's not the worst strategy late in games. The big problem wound up being Abreu being banged up - he had to start a number of games at 1b for Abreu, especially in May. For him to face fewer LHP, Abreu needs to stay healthier. LaRoche put up a .746 OPS as a 1B.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 10:15 AM) This time last year, most fans were excited about the upcoming season and praising Hahn for the moves he made. One year later, many are b****ing about those very moves because a few players under-performed and its now the front offices fault for signing/trading for players that, on paper, many agreed were pretty good moves at the time. Sometimes things do not go according to plan, that's life. I guess it's a matter of perception where one can choose to live in the past or focus on what has been done in the present to hopefully change the future. I'm excited about the moves the Sox have made so far and still believe they will add before opening day. The roster looks alot different now than it did last year. I think Hahn has done well so far and hopefully the results are better this time around. I see no reason not to be optimistic. The funny thing is most of us thought it was a pretty good roster last year. But right now on paper, it is much improved. Hopefully they get improved performance out of some guys as well. If things break right, it could be a really stacked team. Obviously they want a fast start. If anything, that is more motivation to bring in more before the season begins. I am really looking forward to this season. I was disappointed they didn't get Upton or Gordon or Cespedes, but reality says upgrades are still available.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 09:55 AM) That would mean the QO system isn't working to their benefit...and that guys like Gallardo, Desmond and Fowler might not be signed until the draft. El fin. There are several players with QO that have found teams. At least 2 of these guys will be on teams before opening day, if not all 3. Also, would that mean the Sox should have no interest in Austin Jackson since he has no QO and not many takers?

QUOTE (LDF @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 09:22 AM) again, i am not going to key on anything else except the bold. we, the fans really do not know what the term max is when it is coming from the sox FO. it can carry many meanings. The White Sox are never going to say they have a bunch of money to work with. The thing is, there is no reason to freak out over this season yet. Wait at least until the season starts. There has been a ton of speculation over the years about the Cubs popularity vs. the White Sox. Harry Caray, WGN, being owned by the Tribune,....those are all nice theories, but the fact isthe White Sox were doing better than the Cubs until 1984 happened. In 1982. 1983, and 1984, despite Haary being their announcer and the Cubs being on WGN, the White Sox outdrew the Cubs. Then th Cuns won a division and it created the monster they are now. During that year, they traded for their lead off hitter and 3rd place hitter the last week of spring training. They also acquired their ace during the season. I am not for waiting until the season starts to improve the team. From what Hahn repeatedly said at Soxfest, neither is he. He did mention opening day as a deadline. Why don't you see what the team looks like then before determining what they are doing not worthy of fans support? I blasted JR one time for payroll. That was 2009 when they held season ticket holder 2008 playoff money, increased ticket prices, and reduced opening day payroll. I found that to be BS. When you have a full season, those unused WS tickets add up. Now, I believe they have altered how they hold the money. The payroll is fine, and is just about a lock to be higher by opening day.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 09:08 AM) For that price, it's still a good move in all likelihood...but it's troublesome that there were few takers. Supposedly one team was willing to give him a deal where he could earn $9 million with incentives, which also isn't far off the projection. Hahn has been a below average GM so far...with the caveat being we don't know all the other possibilities that were taken off the table by JR other than Samardzija and Tanaka. If you can make the case he's an excellent GM, have at it. Then why do you want them to sign Desmond? There are so few takers. In fact in your original post where you forgot about wanting Latos for so much more money, you said sign Desmond in June. That would mean he had zero takers. Once again you can't make your constant negativity make any sense. Hahn did what you wanted only a lot cheaper and you still find fault, would you rather give Latos $3 million or Ian Kennedy $70 million?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 08:50 AM) Unfortunately I don't have access to the same inside information the other GM's have on Latos. On paper, without considering his personality issues, he should be receiving offers of $8-12 million based solely on his more than reasonable statistical projections. Again, you wanted Hahn to give him $10-12 million. He signed him for $3 million. Why no praise? Doesn't it still accomplish the things you said it would accomplish on the pitching end? Not having the same inside information hasn't kept you from telling us how every move the White Sox make is wrong.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 08:38 AM) I didn't say they should give him that money. Just that he was at one point expected to get $7-10 million and possibly more. That said, nobody has any idea about his affect on the clubhouse yet, so it's a bit early to celebrate like some prematurely did on the Paulino deal. Hindrance, btw. Oh really. Latos for $10-12 million (one year) Parra for $8-10 million (one year) add Desmond in June for 4 months....$10 million Wouldn't that be much more of an impact because...? 1) You're only spending roughly $5 million than on Cespedes 2) You now have credible insurance for injury/non-performance pitching-wise 3) You can get a pick if Latos does really well and/or trade him in June/July 4) Players would have more motivation to perform for bigger FA payoffs in 2017 5) You also have insurance for Saladino...not to mention PR, outfielder (potentially) or DH in the case of LaRoche or Avi flop 6) You don't have to worry about huge financial commitments with back end of Big 3 guys blowing up in your face and blocking efforts to reload/retool like Dunn/LaRoche/Danks deals have effectively done 7) Injury risk is spread across three players rather than just one I wonder why you didn't have these Latos concerns when you thought it would be a good idea to give him 4 times the amount Hahn got him to sign.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 08:28 AM) Oh, you're correct. They do have some guys signed for less than they are worth including Sale, Quintana, Eaton, and Abreu. And some of the other guys could end up being bargains, too. My point was that the 2-3 bad contracts are tying up a good chunk of the $120 million that is being talked about. If the Sox do have a number they won't go over (and there probably is one, but it's not $120 million or even a little more than that), those bad contracts would hinder their ability to spend on the guys they need. The discussion (argument) has been that the Sox won't spend because they are stuck on a number...$120 million. That's not true. They haven't signed Fowler, Desmond, etc. yet because there's not a match. The Sox are willing to the right amount of money on the right guy. They were willing to spend a certain amount for Cespedes or Gordon, but they are willing to spend less on these other guys. Some of that reasoning is driven by what they have allocated so far, but not all of it. What is strange to me is although there is a lot of talk about the QO being a hinderence in a Desmond or Fowler signing, there hasn't been one report I have seen giving any indication of their demands. SD chose Alexei over Desmond. It was for peanuts. I would imagine the Sox wouldn't have let Alexei walk for $3 million unless they are allocating those funds elsewhere, and I don't think Latos for $3 million was a reality back then.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 08:10 AM) Now you're confusing me with Thad Bosley's humor...I don't recall ever mentioning the White Sox being broke when that's vurtually impossible due to all their lease guarantees/subsidies. If they were broke, by the way, there would have been no point to starting this very thread about Desmond and Austin Jackson almost two months ago. You have said the payroll was maxed. You even said there was no way thy didn't lose money last year. You make so many statements about the White Sox basically being hopeless you can't even remember what you wrote. And when does a thread topic matter to you? Besides, you made the Desmond thread when it appeared the White Sox were going to sign Cespedes, just like you made your Royals thread where YOU wrote you don't overpay for free agents or give them more than 3 years even if they are your own, when it appear the Royals were out on Gordon and the White Sox were the front runners. Those are just facts. The White Sox could trade for Trout and Harper and you would find something wrong. I am just shocked you haven't praised Hahn for signing Latos for $3 million after you said they should give him $10-12 million.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 07:59 AM) The Mets... Mets paid Cespedes about $4 million. Maybe a little less. If this payroll "flexibility" is so important, you should be applauding the White Sox, a team you have already told us several times is broke, for not spending every last dime now.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 07:35 AM) It's important to note both those teams had the payroll flexibility to not only add signifiant pieces at the trade deadline, they also had the more important ability to buy premium talent with surplus prospect depth (Cespedes, Cueto, Zobrist). Both teams ended up much higher in payroll than where they began the season. How come in your Royals manifesto you said the Royals didn't pick up salary with Zobrist and Cueto? If they didn't pick it up, how is their payroll increased? Not picking up money doesn't equal payroll flexibility. Also, the White Sox did make a run at Cespedes at the deadline.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 14, 2016 -> 11:41 PM) $120 million is a lot of f***ing money. Neither WS team had a $120 million payroll last season. In fact, both started last season below the White Sox. The Sox have had some much better than average team payrolls the last 5 or 6 years. And while I agree, the model to go into a season short hoping to add, is one this franchise has played out, cheap is not been what this team has been, especially if you consider thing like attendance. http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm What wins games is talent, not how much you are paying him. If Sale were paid market rate, and Quintana for that matter, payroll wouldn't even be discussed.

QUOTE (Brian @ Feb 14, 2016 -> 08:48 AM) Kind of like fans on a message board determining if a pro athlete is too injured to play or not. I hope you aren't referring to General Soreness. The guy wasn't even on the injury report. He was so hurt he said he would be good to go 2 days later. I can understand him taking a day off here and there, but not when your team is reeling and the best player on the team is out vs, a team you could be battling for a playoff spot.

DRose giving Jimmy advice about how to handle his injury. Perfect.

QUOTE (LDF @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 09:51 AM) i pm some other poster and to tell you the truth, i never, ever thought the sox would have signed latos. i was content with Alfredo Simon or Tim Lincecum. that threw me, getting latos. I don't know if that is being a great GM because that move, and I really am not a fan of Latos, was a no brainer. But it is shocking to me he did it with basically no incentives. He must really want to work with Coop and/or the Sox training staff.i don't think the Sox would actually promise him a spot in the rotation no matter what. He also hates being pulled. The Sox hang with their starters longer than most. Whatever the motivation, I think it blows away the moves they have basically been spending this amount of cash for recently. It isn't like he is going to have to be very good to earn his paycheck. If he returns anywhere near to form, he is an unreal steal.