Dick Allen

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 09:01 PM) Just sayin, it seems we've heard "last year's payroll is this year's payroll" coming out of the FO, which doesn't jive with the talk of these add ons without the benefit of a trade to clear salary. It seems they'll have to go at least $130-$135 to field a serious contender. The White Sox haven't mentioned their payroll at all. One thing they have been able to accomplish over the years is to get the media and the fans to always buy into the "we don't have any money" routine. When they signed Dunn and brought Paulie and AJ back, people wondered where they got the money. The season was a disappointment, the attendance dropped again, but they still, according to Forbes, made money. That was with a $127 million payroll and $25 million less a year from the national TV contract. I also don't understand the 2 year window people. Yes, in 2 years guys like Melky and Frazier and Lawrie could be gone, but that frees up money and maybe a couple of minor leaguers step up. One infamous whiner has gone from the Sox window won't open for 2 years to saying it will shut in 2 years due to Frazier and Lawrie. What did they give up for those guys that was going to be the fuel for the team being great in 2 years? I think if they get Cespedes or Fowler or Jackson, they are looking good in 2016. Jackson intrigues me. He was a good player in Detroit but like several others, couldn't hit at all in Seattle. See Beltre, Adrian. He isn't Beltre with the bat, but IMO, would look good in CF, and is still 29 and probably good for at least a 2 WAR, maybe more. I still want Upton, Cespedes, Jackson, Fowler in that order. I think RH will get one of them. It's probably hopeless on Upton, but an OF upgrade, and a couple things going correctly, this team should be pretty good.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 12:45 PM) Even though this was rumored, I have to say I found both of today's signings surprising in a vacuum. What were you doing in a vacuum?

I don't understand the concept of the higher the price, the more likely the player is to sign with the White Sox. I don't understand it at all. These players aren't going to be so cheap that a team that is out on them will suddenly find the $20 + million a year to pay them. IMO, the longer it goes on, the more obvious no team is willing to pay them what they want which IMO increases the White Sox chances.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jan 10, 2016 -> 04:17 PM) Since the Red Sox sent Cespedes packing pretty quickly and he had some personal problems w a coach in his brief stint, I would doubt there is interest w either side. Sounds like an internet rumor Exactly. Besides it all tweets are true, the Sox have already agreed to a 6 year contract with him, but then didn't but only have a 5 year offer, yet will not offer more than 3 years. The Yankees are trying to get below the luxury tax. A one year deal would blow that away. I really don't understand why so many people throw so much BS on the Twitter.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 9, 2016 -> 09:18 PM) I believe the Red Sox had interest in him as well and had Abreu waited about a month or so, I think he would have ended up there (they were in the post season when Abreu signed so signing him really wasn't an option). His agent said 8 teams were bidding 4 were within $5 million including Boston, who would have tried him at 3B.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 9, 2016 -> 04:06 PM) Long term contracts to pitchers are a different consideration, Danks being a case in point. Pitchers are so vulnerable to arm and shoulder injuries, and those injuries are usually career ending, or at least very damaging. Moreover, there is another side to the "double edged sword," which these multi contracts represent. Of course, the team is committed and obligated, but then they also have a good player locked up. There is an optimum number of years, and it certainly isn't advantageous to be committed to a player, beyond his prime. In the case of Cespedes, 4 years takes him through age 33, which seems ideal. I bet the Angels wish they didn't have to pay Pujols and Hamilton for their age 33 seasons. 1 year with team options is optimal, but unrealistic. 3 years is better than 4, 2 better than 3. 3 years with an out after 2 seems like it could be something that interests him.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 9, 2016 -> 03:51 PM) Uh, Lillian never said anything about Danks. No but he isn't and wasn't blocking anyone either. Things change in 4 years. Things change in 3 years. The White Sox have no position players on their roster that were on the team on opening day 2013. Overpaying just to overpay is fine if you have a $300 million payroll and could just suck up the $25 million or so in 3 or 4 years, but the White Sox aren't that team. Maybe the ultimate price means they have to go 4 years, but it doesn't make sense for them to go there until they have to.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 9, 2016 -> 02:49 PM) I don't quite understand the front office's reluctance to commit to 4 years. Who in the Organization, would said player be blocking? Even if Avi develops into a real stud, all the Sox have is Eaton and Avi. Melky will be long gone, and out of Engel, May and Hawkins, isn't it highly unlikely that more than 1 or 2 of them becomes a better than average Major Leaguer? Adolfo is a long way from the Majors, so whomever the Sox sign should have a spot in their outfield, for quite a while. Unless the guy is over 30, there is little reason to worry about him playing on a big contract, at age 33. That's really still in a position player's prime, unless he gets hurt, or is terribly out of shape. I seriously doubt that they would actually hesitate to pay Cespedes for 4 years, his age 30 through 33 years, if the money is reasonable. It's more likely that this is just negotiating, as many of you have suggested. Who is John Danks blocking. I am sure you wouldn't mind if the Sox obligation to him was at least one year less. The fact is these guys might suck in 3 years, and as of now, there I are some nice looking free agent targets in 3 years. There is no reason to be locked into a player longer than needed.

QUOTE (Big Hurtin @ Jan 9, 2016 -> 02:01 PM) I don't believe they are truly negotiating. They are offering the least with a take it or leave it attitude. It only serves to let the gullible fans believe they tried. When was the last time the White Sox won on an in-demand free agent? You know what they are offering how? And if it is take it or leave it like you said, why isn't being reported they are out, because obviously it wasn't taken. The answer to your second question is last season. Robertson was the top closer on the market. Milky turned down 4 years from KC for 3 with the Sox.

Now trade Cutler to Miami and it all would have been worth it.

QUOTE (Big Hurtin @ Jan 9, 2016 -> 01:05 PM) Like I said before, enjoy watching a 4th place team. So you are for not negotiating. Just give them what they want or move along. You must not be married or have a girlfriend. There are so many posts that don't seem to understand even the simplest form of negotiation. Why should Hahn present his best offer if he doesn't have to? Why should he offer 4 years if he may be able to sign him to 3? You might think it mattered a lot in 3 years when the supposed greatest free agent class ever is out there and the Sox are sitting on the sidelines because they had to have Cespedes signed on January 9th instead of January 20th and therefore had to give him another year. If the Sox need to go 4 to get him signed, they might go 4, but until it comes time for him to choose a team, they should keep their offer at something they can sweeten if necessary. Some are fretting the price will come down and there will be more competition, The one thing to worry more about is throw your best offer out there now and teams will have time to better it. Look at Baltimore with Davis.

QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 02:57 PM) So Upton has gone from being uninterested in playing for the Sox to intrigued, now? When it's your best chance of getting paid, interest picks up quickly.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 02:24 PM) Providing that there is a reasonable expectation that he would be able to hit outside of Colorado, he would be a very desirable option. He fits the 2 year window, is not unaffordable, left handed power bat, with high OBP and a right fielder. I'd give up Anderson for him, but then I don't value Anderson as much as most on this board do. To me, Anderson is one of those "toolsy" athletes, who has yet to establish that he is all that good at baseball. He plays a premium defensive position, and is very questionable there. He has not yet demonstrated that he has a good knowledge of the strike zone, striking out way too frequently, and not walking nearly enough. If he ends up having to be moved to CF, his offense would not play nearly as well there. There might be a reason that he is the 12TH ranked SS prospect, by MLB.com. If he has to move to CF, Jacob May is probably near his offensive equal, and a better defensive centerfielder than Anderson. I know that May finished with far less stellar numbers than Anderson, but I followed both, during the season, and until Jacob's concussion, he was running neck and neck with Tim, in several offensive categories. Often injured and huge home and away splits his entire career. Last year he was .243/.294/.464 on the road. His road OPS for his career is over 200 points less than it is at home. If you don't like Cespedes' OBP, you aren't going to like GarGo's. No reason to give up top prospects for him when alternatives cost just money. If they want Anderson or Fulmer or Q, just hang up the phone. They are going nowhere anyway.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 01:43 PM) Hard to imagine they could even get a similar package to what Frazier went for, considering Frazier had considerable more trade value than CarGo does right now given the relative salaries, injury histories and current OF market. That asking price is going to have to come way down. I agree. Sox appear to have a lot of lines in the water. I still think they end up with Cespedes. I didn't know he and Abreu were friends. All things being equal, I think that draws him to the Sox. I just wonder what teams will are interested. Except for the White Sox, they all seem like maybes.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 12:59 PM) Saw some speculation the Nats might trade Gio for a CF and then sign Chen (Rosenthal I believe today said this) Yes. I don't think they would sign Cespedes or Upton. For me, I always wanted the Sox to get Upton, then Gordon, the Cespedes, then Jackson. The one guy if they signed I would be unhappy with is Parra. He's fading defensively, and doesn't hit enough home runs to make up for it.

So Desmond turned down a 7 year $107 million extension a year ago. Oops.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 10:49 AM) That's the risk of overpaying Upton on a one year deal. You have holes at SS, starting rotation, DH or RF depending what you do with Melky....so you're losing a draft pick only to gain it back and push that pick's impact back another year to the point where Sale and Abreu might not even be around. Assuming it's $23-27 million for one year, it's also going to make it difficult to find budget space to add much else at the All-Star break. Everything right now is predicated on the team being better with Anderson and Fulmer contributing fully in 2017 compared to Saladino and Johnson/Danks. So you can't add anyone like Upton, Cespedes or Davis for just one year unless it's that veteran starting pitcher...it really has to be two and ideally three or two plus a realistic option. As for Ian Desmond, same thing...can't be just one year, you have to control his rights at least into 2017. If he was to start playing other positions, he'd need a full offseason to prepare obviously. Right now, he's a SS only but with defensive concerns or issues, a lot of GMs feel he'd hit much better if he could escape the pressure of that position. Yes, I was quite obviously being sarcastic. SS is the most athletic position on the infield...most similar to CF, let alone a corner. There have been quite a few 3b and 1b who have managed to play the corner outfield spots as well. Basically like a Zobrist, Chone Figgins or Tony Phillips type of role...rotating in at DH as well occasionally. LMAO

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 10:22 AM) I'm sorry. I didn't mean to infer that you didn't "get" economics. However, I think you missed the point that this idea includes an opt out, after the first year. It is essentially what you are suggesting, with a little added security for the player, who has two guaranteed years, at a very generous salary, with the privilege to opt out, if he can do better. The only problem with a 1 year opt out is if the free agent class is so bad next year,and they opt out and move along, the Sox have a problem again, but they do have a couple guys off the books, and as long as you are willing to pick up a lot of money, you can get good players for mediocre prospects.

It seems obvious to me the hold up is Cespedes and Upton want to see what Baltimore does with the pile of money it offered Davis. If one of those guys signs there, Boras will be left trying to save face. I don't see another team offering $150 million for Davis, so how he may do this is a one year contract higher than the AAV he turned down. He has played RF and LF, maybe not so well, but throw $25 million at him for 1 season to see what he could do. It would be a huge gamble, but he would be playing for a contract, and USCF does play well into Davis' offensive game. If he hits 40 or 50 homers, he would wind up paying for himself in spades.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) Hopefully the Hall does the right thing and puts a Sox hat on his plaque. backwards.

Shawon Dunston extended his career by moving to the OF. Tim Anderson, a guy often compared to Dunston has many thinking he will eventually be a CF.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 08:31 AM) Ian Kennedy to the Royals would give the White Sox a higher draft pick. So that helps. Not to mention he being on the mound for KC would help the White Sox immensely.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 08:26 AM) How about that Danny Santana kid in Minnesota. He plays SS and CF for the Twins It's really never happened in baseball history.

Kris Bryant played a game or 2 in CF for the Cubs, and he's dreamy.

Wasn't Alexei the opening day CF for the White Sox in 2008? The thing with Desmond is, why would moving him to the OF do anything but decrease his value, and, especially if you signed him in June, how, without spring training, could you be sure he could handle the OF? We will use caulfields terms, are you 100% confident Desmond could handle the OF and wouldn't look like the second coming of Hanley Ramirez out there?