Dick Allen

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 01:43 PM) Hard to imagine they could even get a similar package to what Frazier went for, considering Frazier had considerable more trade value than CarGo does right now given the relative salaries, injury histories and current OF market. That asking price is going to have to come way down. I agree. Sox appear to have a lot of lines in the water. I still think they end up with Cespedes. I didn't know he and Abreu were friends. All things being equal, I think that draws him to the Sox. I just wonder what teams will are interested. Except for the White Sox, they all seem like maybes.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 12:59 PM) Saw some speculation the Nats might trade Gio for a CF and then sign Chen (Rosenthal I believe today said this) Yes. I don't think they would sign Cespedes or Upton. For me, I always wanted the Sox to get Upton, then Gordon, the Cespedes, then Jackson. The one guy if they signed I would be unhappy with is Parra. He's fading defensively, and doesn't hit enough home runs to make up for it.

So Desmond turned down a 7 year $107 million extension a year ago. Oops.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 10:49 AM) That's the risk of overpaying Upton on a one year deal. You have holes at SS, starting rotation, DH or RF depending what you do with Melky....so you're losing a draft pick only to gain it back and push that pick's impact back another year to the point where Sale and Abreu might not even be around. Assuming it's $23-27 million for one year, it's also going to make it difficult to find budget space to add much else at the All-Star break. Everything right now is predicated on the team being better with Anderson and Fulmer contributing fully in 2017 compared to Saladino and Johnson/Danks. So you can't add anyone like Upton, Cespedes or Davis for just one year unless it's that veteran starting pitcher...it really has to be two and ideally three or two plus a realistic option. As for Ian Desmond, same thing...can't be just one year, you have to control his rights at least into 2017. If he was to start playing other positions, he'd need a full offseason to prepare obviously. Right now, he's a SS only but with defensive concerns or issues, a lot of GMs feel he'd hit much better if he could escape the pressure of that position. Yes, I was quite obviously being sarcastic. SS is the most athletic position on the infield...most similar to CF, let alone a corner. There have been quite a few 3b and 1b who have managed to play the corner outfield spots as well. Basically like a Zobrist, Chone Figgins or Tony Phillips type of role...rotating in at DH as well occasionally. LMAO

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 10:22 AM) I'm sorry. I didn't mean to infer that you didn't "get" economics. However, I think you missed the point that this idea includes an opt out, after the first year. It is essentially what you are suggesting, with a little added security for the player, who has two guaranteed years, at a very generous salary, with the privilege to opt out, if he can do better. The only problem with a 1 year opt out is if the free agent class is so bad next year,and they opt out and move along, the Sox have a problem again, but they do have a couple guys off the books, and as long as you are willing to pick up a lot of money, you can get good players for mediocre prospects.

It seems obvious to me the hold up is Cespedes and Upton want to see what Baltimore does with the pile of money it offered Davis. If one of those guys signs there, Boras will be left trying to save face. I don't see another team offering $150 million for Davis, so how he may do this is a one year contract higher than the AAV he turned down. He has played RF and LF, maybe not so well, but throw $25 million at him for 1 season to see what he could do. It would be a huge gamble, but he would be playing for a contract, and USCF does play well into Davis' offensive game. If he hits 40 or 50 homers, he would wind up paying for himself in spades.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) Hopefully the Hall does the right thing and puts a Sox hat on his plaque. backwards.

Shawon Dunston extended his career by moving to the OF. Tim Anderson, a guy often compared to Dunston has many thinking he will eventually be a CF.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 08:31 AM) Ian Kennedy to the Royals would give the White Sox a higher draft pick. So that helps. Not to mention he being on the mound for KC would help the White Sox immensely.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 08:26 AM) How about that Danny Santana kid in Minnesota. He plays SS and CF for the Twins It's really never happened in baseball history.

Kris Bryant played a game or 2 in CF for the Cubs, and he's dreamy.

Wasn't Alexei the opening day CF for the White Sox in 2008? The thing with Desmond is, why would moving him to the OF do anything but decrease his value, and, especially if you signed him in June, how, without spring training, could you be sure he could handle the OF? We will use caulfields terms, are you 100% confident Desmond could handle the OF and wouldn't look like the second coming of Hanley Ramirez out there?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 08:08 AM) BJ Upton Justin Upton I'm sure there are a ton of HS and college SS that eventually wound up in CF.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 08:06 AM) He couldn't be worse than Avi or Viciedo. At any rate, it's more likely he would stick at SS since that's one of our three weakest positions. Pretty much nobody in history has moved from SS to the outfield successfully, though. Robin Yount.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 07:30 PM) o Is it better if I naively cheerlead with all my posts that we actually are going to get Cespedes or Upton? You'll notice that most of the mods aren't getting overly optimistic either... So you're on record as being how confident that we sign either or them? You'll notice that many times in the last few weeks I've put forth alternative/Plan B scenarios in anticipation. There's nothing wrong with the fallback options if you can find the right values. That's going to remove some of the sex appeal or marketing sizzle but it's the more pragmatic approach unless the contract terms are reasonable. Usually in FA they're not, as we learned last off-season. what kind of extra money are baseball players making due to this marketing sizzle? Maybe link something to show us.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 07:24 PM) Let's also look at the marketing side of this. If you're Upton and Cespedes, and you feel you're a superstar, playing on the East Coast with the Nats, the Orioles, the Red Sox (although there was a rough parting there), the Yankees, maybe the Cards (winning tradition), the Tigers... Which one will give you the most media exposure and opportunities to supplement your endorsement income? Let's face it, right now Chicago is locked down barring a huge breakout from the Sox with Cubs mania/Cubs Nation/W flags. Cespedes barely speaks English. I doubt he is looking for huge marketing opportunities, and frankly very few baseball players have them, but never mind that,. The White Sox are hopeless.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 07:18 PM) If you're Cespedes, and you're getting the same offer from the White Sox and Nationals...where would you go? You can play in the nation's capital with one of the two true superstars in the game on what everyone considers a playoff contender versus a White Sox team that's somewhere between 3rd (optimistic) and last (pessimistic) right now out of a 5 team division. You're also even more confident in the NL East than the AL, where you now have a proven track record and just put up near MVP numbers. You've also got two "dead in water" franchises in the Braves and Phillies to pick apart offensively. The White Sox would probably have to overpay by at least 5% to get it done, if not 10%. Same thing with returning to the Tigers...unless the draw of being paired with Abreu is truly that enticing. Why do you post on a White Sox message board?

A lot of tweets the Sox won't go more than 3 years. No tweets they are out on anyone. Interesting.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) What would be your bench with the current team? Navarro/Avila C Sanchez 2B/SS (can still make a ton of starts if he gets at bats from LaRoche while Frazier or Lawrie get some DH at bats) Shuck OF And then another infielder? Garcia or a minor league signing? Or say screw the 4th spot and go 8th reliever? Actually thinking about it, they play what 7-8 games in a row to open the season? They could break camp with a crowded bullpen and send a guy down when they need another position player. I would think Avi, depending what they want to do with him.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 02:46 PM) So between him, Sands and Olt, who would be most likely to be the 25th man? Or does anyone think as of now, Sanchez is the platoon guy with LaRoche (keeping Frazier at third or moving Lawrie to third with other DHing)? Obviously I know they aren't done with the starting lineup or bench but it's a hypothetical season starts tomorrow scenario. I would say none of them. I really don't understand this one other than OF depth at Charlotte. Maybe it means they are going to trade a guy like Shuck or something, but that wouldn't exactly be a blockbuster, and I would think they would be pretty happy with Shuck.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) $13.5 million in 2013 (Konerko) vs. $19 million in 2020... It's actually $13.5 million vs. $23 million because he gets $4 million that they owe him.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 02:27 PM) What were Konerko's age 35 numbers, or Zobrist's? Konerko was obviously toast the end of that previous year. You can look them up, it was 2011 when the Sox were all in. Konerko and AJ were supposed to be goners but they came back, and Paulie has never made anywhere near the $19 million Gordon would receive on top of the $4 million deferral or buyout. Mutual options are pretty irrelevant. Especially considering they are 4 years in the future.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 02:19 PM) Isn't that what Rabbit keeps intimating? Or was that Bucket? Hard to keep track. This supposed offer on Monday was only for three years? That seems crazy to be so far off...knowing you're going to have to pay a premium to dislodge him from the only team he's ever played for. If Hahn is this great negotiator, he would have to have known it would mean paying 10-15% more than KC. Or the Royals' package three days later (and direct communication from Moore to Gordon and not through Close) came as a complete shock. The Royals lowballed him until New Year's Eve.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 02:15 PM) Except if Mark Buehrle or Paul Konerko had a very solid season at age 35 and the Whie Sox let them go when they had an option to keep them (basically a loyalty rewards send off)...it wouldn't sit very well with the fanbase to see an entire career with one organization end his career with another team (in the case of a Buerhle or Gordon). There is nothing for stopping them from mutually agreeing to a contract of any amount of any length in 4 years. This thing is just for show. And I'm sure White Sox fans would understand if Konerko didn't get an additional $19 million for a victory lap. They gave him $2 million with $1 million deferred and people still were mad. I'm sure Hahn would be up for a 3 year $55 million contract for Cespedes with a $40 million mutual options in years 4 and 5, and I doubt you would call that 5 years $135 million.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 02:00 PM) Um, because it was a mutual option that seems like it only will be plausible in a very specific circumstance What are the odds the team thinks he's worth an extra $19 million that season and his side is content with a 1 year, $23 million deal? That probably means it gives each side a tiny bit of leverage to hold onto him and negotiate an extension if he decides to finish a career there and if the Royals can afford his last couple years. The mutual option was BS. It means nothing. It's there for the buyout because the buyout becomes a trade kicker if he gets traded. As I stated before, every free agent technically is on a "mutual option" if you think about it.