iamshack

This feels like the quietest day in Soxtalk history

QUOTE (Tony @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 05:35 PM) Great, the Tigers are just as bad as the Sox. That doesn't help me, or any of us. The Tigers won 56 games more than the Sox during that period...they certainly have NOT been as bad as the Sox.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 03:35 PM) This is like arguing Marco Rubio would have won had he never flubbed a debate. In Greg's idea, then...four years ago, we likely would have had Herman Cain, Rick Perry, Rudy Guiliani, Michelle Bachmann or Newt Gingrich as the candidate, and Dr. Ben Carson this year. The process actually has done a pretty good job until this year of weeding out unworthy candidates... What happened is actually the reverse of what Greg is arguing. Trump was such a rotten candidate no one even bothered to take him seriously until it was too late, then all of the sudden they were face with blowing up the runaway nominee or praying it didn't happen by the hands of the Dems.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 05:07 PM) What was the Tigers record during that 5 year stretch? They "go for it" every year too. 431-379.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 05:00 PM) And LeBron took away the storyline of the city's long futility too. Yeah, that's true. The Indians are sort of gravy at this point. Not that the Indians don't have their own history and storyline, but you are absolutely right. The Indians are playing second fiddle not only to the Cubs, but the Cavs as well.

QUOTE (Tony @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 04:27 PM) Has this been talked about? Since Theo took over in 2012, the Cubs record is 400-409 (without playoff record). This is obviously including the full rebuild they went through, including a 101 loss season, and a 96 loss season. They told fans this was a 5 year process, and things would be rough early on. During that same stretch, the Sox are 375-435, and have tried to "go for it" every year. Just some food for thought. Yeah, that is pretty remarkable, and should definitely be food for thought for some of the folks opposing a rebuild. Good find, Tony.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 01:28 PM) Theo is the best executive in baseball. He has been for quite some time. Pretending otherwise is pretty silly IMO. Yeah, the money is nice and all, but he's done this the long way, not the easy, quick way. He deserves all the credit he gets.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 12:38 PM) One of the crappy things about being a Chicago transplant out here is getting a ton of texts and social media posts from everyone here, congratulating me for the Cubs success. I feel like throwing my phone against the wall. I know the feeling...especially when you politely tell them "No, I am a White Sox fan." And then they are like "Oh. Uhhh...Sorry."

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 11:56 AM) When Theo was hired by the Cubs, numerous posters on this site said very similiar things about his success in Boston. Regardless it was under his watch that the Red Sox ended their drought. As a White Sox fan living in New England I was glad to see him go. But I give him credit in that he has resurrected a worse situation with the Cubs than he did in Boston. He knows how to run a FO. I think he surrounds himself with people who have an eye for talent. Good post. I also think he chose the Cubs as an opportunity to prove he could do it...the Cubs were basically the Holy Grail, even more so than Boston perhaps...and he's proven he could turn them around and into something no one else has been able to do.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 11:44 AM) Baseball fandom is of course intensely personal -- I live and die White Sox, but also consider myself to be a fanatical devotee of the sport itself and professional baseball generally. Grew up in the 60s where for most serious fans, you were a Sox fan, a Cubs fan, but rarely if ever both. Here's my mindset entering the Series. Let's hear yours. *Sox are a major disappointment at the moment, so who actually wins is of very limited importance. *HONESTLY happy for my many friends and family who have suffered FOREVER. I can be happy for them as people without rooting for THEIR team. I'm certainly NOT. *Could never root for them, but grudgingly respect many in the org -- particularly, Bryant, Rizzo, Zobrist, Hendricks, Maddon, and Epstein (NOT -- Arrieta, Contreras, and Chapman). Hope the Sox learn some hard lessons. *Privately, MOST Cubs fans annoy the heck out of me, particularly their "premature coronation" (WIN the Series, then chirp). *Media love for the plight of the long time Cubs fan is disgusting, yet revealing. See some parallels to politics -- better story because it's about possible happy ending for socioeconomically successful white people. Sox sure didn't get the "world just changed" treatment. *Here, in the safety of this relatively anonymous outpost, I'll admit that I HOPE the Cubs lose in an epic and devastating way. You've got to the Series, Cubs fans; you've won nothing yet. I LOVE having bragging rights even if 2005 is retreating farther and farther into my rearview mirror. I dunno...I seem to remember a little bit of that. I think I still have some papers with the headline "Believe It" or something to that effect. There was a similar storyline, albeit on a smaller scale, most likely due to the White Sox being a storied franchise despite being the red-headed stepchild in Chicago. Of course, back in 2005, the Cubs were creeping pretty close to their lowest point, while the Sox had been pretty competitive for a number of years. However, I do agree in re: the successful white people part...obviously the White Sox have a more diverse fanbase, but even still, you mostly heard the stories of long-suffering white people (the minorities simply had not suffered long enough, apparently).

QUOTE (3GamesToLove @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 10:51 AM) Buck hasn't worked for the Cardinals for almost a decade, but I get your point. Oh, I wasn't even aware of that. Good to know.

QUOTE (3GamesToLove @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 10:40 AM) Honest question: I was busy this week so didn't see much of this series. B this whole "Buck loves Kershaw" thing is overblown, right? Like, Kershaw is the greatest pitcher on the planet and in the conversation for greatest of all time. Not to mention, Buck seemed to praise people like Baez plenty too. I'm curious as to how much of it is standard "local fans are annoyed at national broadcaster's praise of opposing star player" and how much of it was an actual unusual amount of praise. The Cub fans are just looking for any reason to complain about him because he is the Cardinals broadcaster. He, and media as a whole, have been particularly favorable towards to Cubs during both of their last two playoff runs.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 08:15 AM) I just did a terrible job redoing the silicon caulk around the shower tub. Gonna be staring at that for a while. I did the same thing about a year ago. Eventually just had a handyman do it right

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 22, 2016 -> 03:57 PM) Ettiquette question: I ordered sushi tonite and picked it up, and I did not tip when I picked up. The hostess gave me serious attitude about it, and it definitely left an impression. Should I have tipped? When I used to deliver pizza, people would pick up pizzas and I would cash them out, and I never got nor expected a tip. Is it different with picking up sushi? I'm generally a good tipper, I just learned that this was not a tip situation, at least with pizza I usually tip 10% when I pick up.

Welp...let's do this, Kenny and Rick...now that no one will be watching...let's start the healing process and start turning this once-great franchise around by rebuilding in relative anonymity. Let's Make the White Sox Great Again!

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Oct 22, 2016 -> 09:19 PM) I'd like to think this is the case but there is no history to say he would. When Jose Abreu is your biggest FA signing in franchise history, I have a hard time imagining him taking the leap to a contract 2.5x as large regardless of the state of the rest of the roster. I'm one of the few optimists on this board that thinks the White Sox aren't that far away from competing. The bullpen and offense need some help but their core is actually solid - Sale, Q, Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson, Abreu, Burdi. If they had the resources of the Cubs, now would be the time to make a big splash and their version of a Lester signing by signing Cespedes this offseason but that won't happen. Well to his credit, he paid $60 million to a player who had never had a major league plate appearance. And you are right, we aren't the Cubs. But even with all their financial resources, they were smart enough to know they needed to do it through development and not FA signings.

This is honestly a perfect time to start our rebuild. We're not going to compete with the Cubs when they are at their peak anyways. So use the relative anonymity to your advantage...move your key assets that you don't project will be around by the time you arise from the ashes, and then take your medicine and start pouring money into development. Not only into players but into coaches and staff as well. It'll take 3-4 years of sucking, but who cares? You'll come out on the other side much stronger an organization than you are now.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Oct 22, 2016 -> 08:55 PM) In theory yes but JR would never commit to that type of contract, especially for a pitcher. I think he might if we knew we had a core of position players locked up for years but that you needed to add some legitimacy to the roster. That is essentially what the Lester signing was about more than anything - showing the other FA's that the Cubs were serious about winning and should be a destination for those FAs.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Oct 22, 2016 -> 08:48 PM) I follow you but being able to sign an ace for that kind of money is something the Sox couldn't afford to do. I'm not sure a rotation of Hendricks, Arrieta, Lackey, Hammel gets them past the Giants. Probably not. I disagree. If the Sox invested in their development, and were able to keep their mlb payrolls low as a result of that, as well as punting on competing for a few seasons, they could absolutely afford a Lester-type contract. Don't think about it in terms of our current payroll. Imagine a payroll in the $75 million range for a few seasons. There is nothing prohibiting you from paying a few veterans at that point $15-20 million per year.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Oct 22, 2016 -> 08:41 PM) They also paid big money to free agents. They are still a good team without those guys but would they have survived the division series without Lester? Not to mention other hefty contracts Zobrist, Heyward, Lackey which has led to mixed results but can you imagine what kind of devastation a Heyward type signing would have on the White Sox. Many are complaining that Shields remaining 2 years/$20MM (Sox portion) is a huge financial burden. Yeah they have, although I'd argue that Lester is really the only one that made a big difference. Zobrist gives them a ton of flexibility, but he isn't a guy the Sox couldn't sign. The big signing of Heyward probably wouldn't happen, but he hasn't really made a huge difference in their success. I guess my point is that their big dollar FA moves, outside of Lester, are really not what got them here. It was the investing in development and sticking with the plan.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Oct 22, 2016 -> 08:23 PM) I said this awhile ago. The White Sox do not have the same financial resources as the Cubs so modeling a rebuild after them is not even realistic anyway. If anything, they should be following the model the Indians or Royals have used in recent years. They can start by strengthening the bullpen and defense. I disagree...while the Cubs have used their financial resources to their advantage, and most importantly, their ability to draw fans even in the midst of a rebuild, it's more about the way in which they invested their resources than the magnitude of them, IMO. They made a commitment to building through international free agency and the draft. Meanwhile, they made some shrewd offseason signings and then were not afraid to move those players at the deadline of seasons they were noncompetitive to add assets to their core. This is nothing the White Sox can't do. All it takes is patience. And I don't really want to hear about the fans won't support it. The fans don't much support the product now anyways.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 22, 2016 -> 08:02 PM) It's more funny that people thought Hahn was a legit GM candidate after Hendry left I'm still not willing to really judge Hahn. I have no idea which decisions are his and which aren't.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Oct 22, 2016 -> 08:00 PM) What a douche. Talking about the Cubs in the Cubs thread. Total douchebag. And my sex and my orientation are none of your business. I don't give a s*** who or what you are. You don't need to respond like an asshole when people are just making legitimate baseball arguments. "And you usually are wrong." is a childish and disrespectful way to respond to people, which is why everyone in here is annoyed by you.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 22, 2016 -> 07:59 PM) I'm upset. Because our organization did nothing but stupid s*** as the Cubs were pathetic and rebuilding the right way. The Cub rebuild finally ended at a time the Sox suck. Greg, as much as I love you bud, you don't really fall into what I consider a reasonable fan, which is who I was thinking about with that post.

This is the matchup I've wanted all along. I'll take the Tribe in 6.