iamshack

QUOTE (spiderman @ May 11, 2010 -> 02:54 PM) Unless you think this team is going to play at a 80-45 clip (or something close to this), I think you're fooling yourself. I don't need immense evaluation skills to know that a team that I expect to win about 80 games isn't good enough to not only overcome a 8 game deficit, but also win close to 90 wins. Let me ask you this. What were your expectations prior to the season? If we were 16-16 instead of 13-19 do you think we would have no chance still?

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ May 11, 2010 -> 02:37 PM) Can this team play at the clip necessary based on the hole they've already dug to reach the low 90's win total necessary to even have a shot at the postseason though? Very unlikely. Do you think the fans of THOSE teams thought it was likely at this point in those seasons? They would have said the same thing!

QUOTE (spiderman @ May 11, 2010 -> 02:33 PM) I don't think it's foolishness. Now, if you think the White Sox are going to win 92 games this season, I could at least understand your argument in believing that they can overcome this. I don't think they are more than about a 80 win team if things go well. I don't think team sucks - there are at least 10 teams clearly worse than they are, probably a few more. They are not good enough in my estimation to overcome a 8 game deficit. First of all, I have not stated how many games I think they will win. Second of all, we have ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY GAMES LEFT. I'm sorry, but you just do not have neither the crystal ball nor the immense evaluation skills to know whether or not 8 games can be made up with 132 left. That is literally one game every two weeks. We honestly don't know a whole lot more right now than we did at the beginning of the season. Finally, you have no idea what kinds of injuries or trades/transactions might occur between now and the end of the season. You just have no idea what could happen over the course of five months!

QUOTE (spiderman @ May 11, 2010 -> 02:15 PM) Making the assumption that the White Sox will play at such a clip to win about 90 games needed to win the division is a stretch, and while there is still 130 games left, I believe history (if somebody can provide the stats on this, that would be great) shows that teams that fall behind this much, this early typically don't catch up - adding to that, it's not like the White Sox were expected to win 90 games this year - a lot of the projections had them with about 80 wins - give or take 2 wins. You're missing the entire argument however, and so are many in this thread. The Twins built a lead of 8 games or however many games they are ahead of us in FIVE WEEKS. Is it really your contention that the Sox are not capable of making that same lead up in nearly FIVE MONTHS? That is just pure foolishness. You can argue all you want that this team sucks. But that is not the same argument as "this team is out of it because of the number of games back they are at this point in the season."

QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 11, 2010 -> 01:31 PM) To be fair, the 06' Twins team was really underachieving at the time and of course had the MVP combo. The 09' Rockies fired their manager and hired Jim Tracy and all of a sudden that young team just went nuts and I think got in via the W.C. The 05' Indians team always had the offense (I think Victor, Hafner, Grady were all hitting poorly for a bit) and they had C.C., Carmona, Westbrook, etc.. who were decent, but turned it on later. And the 03' Marlins had Miggy, Hanley, Beckett, Burnett, etc.. and won the Wild Card to get in (the Wild Card is not comming out of our division) I think guys like Floyd, Peavy, Buehrle, Quentin, Beckham will be fine but I'm not too optimistic on guys like Williams, Pena (though I like Tony Tone) in the pen.. possibly Jenks, Pierre, etc. And anytime you have Kotsay and Pierre in your lineup well... that is just bad. (we got very lucky that Jones "found it" so far or else we would be much worse) Vizquel also hits more than he should be hitting (love him in the field/late inning replacement, hate him hitting and Nix gets dicked around too much. AJ will be average, Teahen will be average, Garcia will be average, Alexei will be average, Rios will be solid and Konerko will have one of his better years it looks like. (especially in the power department) I certainly hope it isnt one of those "pitching finds it, but offense disappears or offense finds it, but pitching disappears" type thing this year. I would still rather trade guys like A.J., Pierre, (for anything) etc.. and let guys like Flowers, Hudson, etc.. come up and but still keep the core (Beckham, Quentin, Rios, Peavy, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Santos, etc..) and take a run at this thing with some youth and fire, but I don't think that will happen. No one is arguing that this team is going to turn around and suddenly make the playoffs without some major "event" occurring or some kind of change in the status quo. That is exactly what will be looked back upon should this team somehow make the playoffs. We'll be able to point to some event or series of events and say "that was the turning point."

QUOTE (jphat007 @ May 11, 2010 -> 01:06 PM) How often does a team that looks like absolutely s*** in all three phases of the game turn it around like the Twins did in 06 or last year. It just doesn't happen very often, and there are a ton of teams that look like s*** in mid may. Like I said, if you want to believe it can happen, more power to you. There are examples to show you that it has certainly happened. Unfortunately there are many many many more examples of s***ty teams in mid may staying s***ty the entire year. I guarantee you that if we went through and identified teams that had solid rosters but were underperforming in May, the percentages would improve drastically. The reason teams that are 8 games back in May have such a low percentage of winning the division or the Wild Card is because most of those teams never had any chance to compete in the first place.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ May 11, 2010 -> 01:06 PM) How often does a team that looks like absolutely s*** in all three phases of the game turn it around like the Twins did in 06 or last year. It just doesn't happen very often, and there are a ton of teams that look like s*** in mid may. Like I said, if you want to believe it can happen, more power to you. There are examples to show you that it has certainly happened. Unfortunately there are many many many more examples of s***ty teams in mid may staying s***ty the entire year. There are plenty of PLAYOFF teams that were playing rotten in May. The 03' Marlins. The 07' Rockies. The 09' Rockies. The 06' Twins. You're not making any sense.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ May 11, 2010 -> 01:59 PM) Well, yah, this team isn't nearly as good as any of those Twins teams, so you are right in that I think most Sox fans just think this team sucks. How can you say that, on May 11th? Did you think the 2006 Twins looked like a good team on May 11th, 2006?

QUOTE (jphat007 @ May 11, 2010 -> 01:52 PM) Who said it can't be made up? I said it rarely, if ever happens. Go look up the numbers. Teams just don't come back and win the division from 8 games back with two good teams ahead of them. It happens in our division all the time. Have you not been watching the Twins over the past few years? Did you not notice the Indians almost came back from 16.5 back in AUGUST in a certain year not too long ago? I'm sorry, but 8 games on May 11th is nothing. The reason teams 8 games back on May 11th don't usually win the division is because those teams usually suck, not because they are 8 games back with only 130 left to play. If you want to say most fans are convinced the team sucks, go right ahead. But do not tell me they are "out of it." That is absolute nonsense. Do you realize that to come back from an 8 game deficit on May 11th would require them to SLASH away almost TWO GAMES PER MONTH starting RIGHT NOW?

QUOTE (jphat007 @ May 11, 2010 -> 12:46 PM) That's true, I'll give you that. But I think in the minds of the majority of White Sox fans they are pretty much out of it. They would have to come back on not one, but two really good teams to contend. That's going to be tough with this team, even if half the ones that are playing like s*** do play better. This is such an incredible line of BS. We are thirtysome games into the season. There are 130 games remaining! No one is hoping they continue to fall further back, but to claim that this deficit cannot be made up over the course of nearly 5 months of baseball is absolutely ridiculous.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 11, 2010 -> 07:24 AM) The teams from the eras you mention weren't top 5 in payroll but I hear you. I'm not sure why the payroll being high somehow entitles fans to a better team. Attendance is certainly not the reason that the payroll is amongst the upper third of the League. It's not like White Sox fans are showing good will year after year by coming out to the games regardless of the standings.

At this point, I'm just excited to see Target Field. I am going in with no other expectations.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 10, 2010 -> 08:22 AM) Watched State of Play last night via netflix. Decent thriller. I probably liked it more since I had very low expectations. Yeah, I agree. Fairly decent twist at the end, but nothing too memorable. One of the few movies I could tolerate Affleck in. I watched 2012 and A Perfect Getaway on Saturday night. 2012 was a little better than I expected, but still incredibly implausible. A Perfect Getaway I was very pleasantly surprised with. One of the better acting jobs I have seen in awhile, both from Jovovich and Steve Zahn. Timothy Olyphant was pretty solid as well. Much better than I was expecting.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 7, 2010 -> 02:23 PM) Concord, MA to be First U.S. Town to Ban Bottled Water That's awesome.

I've bought and sold a TON of furniture on Craigslist. With the foreclosure crisis happening here in Las Vegas, it was the perfect time to be a single guy in need of furniture.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxfan1986 @ May 9, 2010 -> 10:17 PM) I would give the closer's role to either Santos or Thornton, preferably Santos so we can use Thornton for certain matchups. All I know is Bobby should never close another game for this team. I wish they had the stones to make Santos the closer, but it isn't going to happen.

QUOTE (knightni @ May 9, 2010 -> 08:36 PM) http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/ind...reliever-usage/ Honestly, I agree. The best reliever should be the one to pitch in the tough situations, not just when it's the 9th inning. Your best pitchers should pitch in the most high-leverage situations. As some others have alluded to, there is no point in sitting your best pitchers on the bench so that lesser-quality guys can blow the lead and make him irrelevant.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 9, 2010 -> 07:01 PM) Scenario, does it really matter to this team if Alexei plays in Charlotte or Chicago? Beckham needs to go down, and soon. Why not keep them together? I'm not saying DON'T care about winning games anymore, of course, but without Beckham and Quentin, it doesn't matter if Alexei hits like he did from mid-May through August, 2008. How has he shown improvement in any facet of the game? He's not walking as much, his baserunning is in shambles (how can he have only ONE steal when Andruw Jones has six?), his defense is super spotty and he would have the chance to play with Gordon everyday in real game situations. I KNOW it won't happen because Ozzie loves Ramirez too much, but it should IMO. Well as much as Q has sucked at time this year, he is on pace for 100 RBI....let's not pretend he is a black hole out there. I'm of the belief that if Alexei gets going, along with Rios and now maybe Q, we can win plenty of games even without Gordo hitting very well. We are starting to see some offense from this team...we just need to get the pen straightened out a bit (Jenks removed as closer, Santos used more often and effectively, maybe even as closer).

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 9, 2010 -> 05:13 PM) Nix looked pretty good out at 3b, worked some great ab's. It looks like in the event of a Beckham demotion he won't carry the team, but he might not sink it. Hah, you crack me up with your admiration for Nixy..it's good though, I like positives. The problem with Nix is HE CAN'T HIT RIGHTIES. Remember that!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 9, 2010 -> 05:16 PM) As bad as the Sox offense has been, they are 8th in the AL in runs scored. They are 11th in the AL in runs allowed and ERA. Where are the Cooper threads? I think it's more difficult to call Cooper into question because of the infrequency in which most of the guys he coaches actually pitch. You tend to like to give guys multiple chances, and so each starter has only made about 6 starts...each has looked good at least a few outings. Each has looked bad a few outings (even though Johnny has fought through a couple of his with minimal damage). It isn't quite as apparent as when Walk's guys manage to look horrible several times inside of one ballgame. But if the starting pitching does continue to struggle, along with some of the bullpen, don't worry, the "FIRE COOPER" threads will come. They never fail to appear.

I thought Kapler was going to be the guy again to put this in serious jeopardy.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 9, 2010 -> 04:08 PM) I don't fault Ozzie one second for keeping Jenks as the closer, as he hadn't blown a save yet. Still, the writing was on the wall. This entire notion of blowing a "save" is nonsensical. In no other situation is giving up runs acceptable for a reliever. Why it is overlooked because of some silly antiquated statistic in this day and age of data and intense analysis is beyond me. The first managers/GMs to recognize this will be more successful as managers/GMs. Good for Dallas Braden.

As for the negative outlet excuse, that's bs guys. Grow the hell up. I'm a huge freaking fan too, but that doesn't mean I need to kick dogs and punch walls. It's perfectly natural to want to identify with other fans suffering through the same horrible baseball day in and day out, but the level of anger, frustration, forecasting of gloom and doom, calling out the same 3-4 players every single day, etc., has reached a point to where this is no longer a place to come and follow games. It's a place to come if you want to turn an otherwise happy day into a suicide watch. I don't know how many times I have to say this, but the baseball season is a marathon. If you live and die with every single pitch, every single run, every Gordon strikeout, etc., you're all going to lose your minds. Certain people (and I do this myself, so don't take offense), need to step back and take a deep breath, put things in perspective, and realize this is just a baseball team that is struggling mightily right now. But it's NOT the end of the world, it's NOT life or death, it's NOT a friend or family member being sick. This is a GAME. I love the game of baseball as much as anyone, and I love the Chicago White Sox as much as anyone, but we all have to get a grip. I don't think the actual players are as miserable as some of you are about this. Let's all step back and recognize what it is we have here - a baseball team that is vastly underperforming - ok, I accept that. Perhaps they are not as good as I had hoped. Perhaps they are not in the position to compete for the next few years as I had anticipated. So I must therefore reset my expectations. I must accept that they are going to struggle in this way. And now I will roll with that. I will not let it drive me crazy, I will not let it make me miserable, I will not let it impact my life in a significantly negative manner. Everyone, take a deep breath. Step away from baseball. Go rent A Perfect Getaway, and enjoy the rest of your weekend before we all head back to the coal mines tomorrow.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 9, 2010 -> 04:23 PM) I just don't understand why you care so much about one individual poster on this site. 50 consecutive negative posts and you focus on me only. Seriously. The ignore feature is very easy to activate. Maybe it's because I know you're better than that, Sqwert.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 9, 2010 -> 04:19 PM) Your obsession with me is disturbing. It has nothing to do with you. You are like the most bipolar fan I have ever seen. Do you have any hair left? It's like when we do something good, you are on top of the world, but as soon as it happens, you are already forecasting doom. Then when these idiots do something really horrible like this inning, you start calling for a fire sale. I just cannot understand why you would put yourself through this. I think it would be more comfortable for you if you lit yourself on fire. CALM down.