harfman77

QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 01:19 AM) So now: Buehrle Floyd Danks A half season of ??? (Contreras MIA) ??? I don't know about just plugging in the two we had spot start for us at the end of the year. If this is in fact the much talked about rebuild, we have seen teams in the past compete whilst doing so. Danks and Floyd were great this past year, but sophomore slump/flash in the pan are coined phrases for a reason. Not saying they were flukes, but how many in the past have had one damn good year and then dropped off? I have faith in the two, but you are now, at this point at least, going into the season with one proven starter. On that same note we have Ramirez and Quentin. Not saying, just saying... It's nice to speculate..."and what if we got Bailey, what a sick rotation that would be, even though he had a solid 8 ERA in the NL Central...", "dude, Pittsburgh has this disgusting nasty flamethrower in low A ball that we just highway robbered them for...". Firstly, with some of these guys we're talking years away, secondly, Coop is great, but him being here doesn't guarantee that whatever once highly touted fallen star prospect for another organization will suddenly see the light under his tutelage. Did Vazquez or Logan see the light? Reclamation projects are great when there are fall back options. There are no fall back options. (sign sheets!) I'd rather not roll my dice in the futures market. I realize our position may be limited, but someone who's just about Major League ready to throw a ball with results, or an on the cheap vet (Sheets for example) needs to come our way. Words like "ace" shouldn't be attatched to a pitcher after one good season. There's nothing wrong with acquiring "years away" guys by chance, but I'm not a fan of making those players our sole targets. With Dye being rumored to leave, what did we get for Swisher who was coming off an all time low value-wise? Nothing at all? Betemit? For F***S sake... Baseball will be played in Chicago between the years of 2009-2012, after all. Had Swisher not been thrown away, the loss of Dye, should it happen, would have been more easily absorbed. Now, who's going to step into this corner outfield position to replace 50+ HR's? I hope to Christ it's Manny, because Betemit is good for like 4 or 5. I remember long periods of offensive struggle in the past two years. Losing arguably the biggest producer and one who had potential to be a big producer is not the remedy to this. Luckily, it's just 12/02 and the action is just getting started. I imagine we won't go into next year with a 1-3 man rotation and 75 fewer HR's. I imagine and pray. It may not seem like I like the trade from the words written above, but I do, at least this one. Javy was frustrating to watch, and clearly ties were severed between him and the organization from about September on. He needed to leave, and this is what I mean by acquiring years off guys by chance. I think with the Dye talks floating around I'm pissed that we let go of Swisher coming of the lowest of lows career production wise for a Wilson Betemit. And then they want to add the slugger Taveras to boot. I think that Marquez will likely be slotted in the rotation heading into ST and given every opportunity to succeed. He was a first round pick (comp) who has battled some injury problems but has the potential to put it all together if he can stay healthy. I think that Marquez could really make an impact in the rotation next season and be a big surprise. I am concerned next season about Floyd and Danks, I think that any year that young starters pitch into the playoffs, especially the way they were handled the last month of the season, they are going to hit an extended wall at some point the next season., so we will need some depth to help get those two some rest next year. Richard could be an option, Poreda is not ready to be a starter yet with his limited arsenal, and Broadway would be the other option at this point. Maybe we pick something up in the Rule 5 draft? Speaking of, this trade clears a spot on the 40 man roster.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 11:32 PM) Uh-oh Even Flowers is questioning his long term position at C. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,0,628845.story I dont think he is questioning it as much as he is saying that it allows him another opportunity to make it to the majors faster.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:55 PM) Overall, a very lackluster haul, but I am so glad Vazquez is gone so I can't complain too much. Lillebridge still has some nice potential at a couple positions and offers some power and SPEED. I think he'll be on our team in some capacity next year barring another trade. The other guys are really low minors prospects and I never get excited over someone in A ball, though the players we did get have some potential and goodness knows our minor leagues needed a shot of that. The fact Kenny moved that turd earns this move a B- in my book. I also think Kenny isn't even close to being done...I believe he is going to essentially rebuild this team in one season giving it a new look Everyone here is drooling over what Beckham did in the AFL, Flowers put up better numbers and is about the same age. So are you not excited about Slayer either?

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 06:33 PM) Very interesting. Could we possibly be prepared to move Alexei to CF? 2010 scenario: 3B Viciedo SS Lillibridge 2B Beckham 1B Fields CF Ramirez RF Quentin LF Shelby? C Flowers Lillibridge is a more likely candidate for CF as that was his college position.

I cant see adding another LH SP like Reyes, and one that struggled in the NL none the less. Maybe Jurrjens, Locke, or Rohrbourgh along with Lillibridge and Flowers? I then assume that Lillibridge is being brought in to play CF.

As far as comp picks go there is more value there than you would have gotten in a trade from another team for Garland, in addition you have the potential to pull in two A prospects, something you would not have been able to do in a trade. 2006 - Adrian Cardenas, Joba Chamberlain, Chris Perez, and Chris Coghlan 2005 - Travis Buck, Luke Hochevar (didnt sign), Clay Bucholz, Jed Lowrie, and Garrett Olson. 2004 - JP Howell, Gio, Huston Street, Marquez 2003 - Adam Miller, Matt Murton, Saltlamacchia, and Adam Jones 2002 - Greg Miller, Dan Meyer, and Mark Teahen I didnt include 2007 or 2008 because it is too soon to tell anything for sure about those groups but there are some promising players in the 2007 group like Josh Smoker, Kyle Lotzkar, Ryan Dent, Michael Burgess, Justin Jackson, Eddie Kunz, Neil Ramirez. I don't buy into the draft picks are garbage argument at all. The Sox have definitely had their difficulties in scouting and evaluating talent, but you have to feel pretty good about the organizations direction after the past couple drafts. You could not trade Garland for half the people on that list straight up, so in this case the picks are worth more than the player was.

The Reds cleared quite a bit of salary dumping Jr and Dunn this year, I think Arroyo and Harang's contracts are each increasing, but they should have some room to work with. Bu they may be thinking they can add JD cheap and then go after another FA outfielder as well and want to save room to do so.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 09:14 AM) Not quite so simple. Jackson has the ability to be a 2-3 starter on most MLB teams, even an ace if he puts it all together. Just because he was behind Sonnanstine (who made about $390,000) and Shields doesn't mean he's garbage, far from it. It's just that TB has financial constraints, and they already anticipate having to pay Shields and Garza soon enough, and Kazmir is already starting to make a lot of money. More importantly, they have to move Price into the rotation as well. If you're the Rays, there's a clear reason financially to keep Sonnanstine, even though the risk of Jackson becoming a star somewhere is much greater. Not to mention the fact that KW wouldn't consider someone with limited future upside potential as Sonnanstine, he would only take someone like Jackson or Wade Davis, not McGee (injured?) or Niemann or someone like that. It's all about "ceiling" and not where he is now....Gavin Floyd wasn't even worthy of being a part of Philly's rotation when we picked him up, yet he's now #3 with us. Second, Jenks isn't going to fetch as big a return as everyone thinks with so many other closers on the market and the many "con's" for teams acquiring him. Third, TB is already loaded with pitching prospects, we don't have anything to offer them besides Poreda in that area, or maybe Richard. They already have Howell to do what Richard does, so that's kind of a no-go. I'm not sure what they need that we can give them besides Dye, and Viciedo is too raw and inexperienced for them to put him in RF (not that KW would dream of trading him yet). Beyond that, would they really want Brandon Allen or Shelby. It simply has to be Dye or Jenks or any deal would be off the table. Then the deal is off the table, you are essentially trading an Ace for a guy who might eventually be able to put things together. They would need to throw in a lot more than just Niemann to get a bite on either of those players. Dye has put up close to MVP numbers 2 of the last three seasons, Jenks has one of the best save conversion % in the last two seasons. Jackson is not worth either of those players even if you include a B prospect like Niemann. People here dicsount too much the value of Sox players and run up the value on people like Jackson. Jenks is more attractive than the options on the FA market because he is cheap and still under team control. He is a steal when K-Rod is going to get more than $16MM/per and Fuentes likely close to 12. If you are dealing Dye for a SP, Bailey has more ceiling at this point, and a lower floor which will allow you to get another quality player in return.

Regardless, there is no way you give up Jenks for 2 fifth starters. If you are trading Jenks, you need to get better quality in return than some teams throw aways. If TB wants to dump Jackson to avoid paying arb, than you low ball them and offer them minor leaguers, giving up Jenks is overpaying. Obviously TB isnt all that sold on him if there are willing to let him go and not sign him to a long term deal like they have with some of their other young arb eligible players.

You have to offer arbitration to both and take the chance, if they accept than you can trade them for other pieces. All those teams that would be interested in OC in the free agent market would be interested in him for a trade, even more so in the case of the Dodgers who are trying to bide time until one of their prospects are ready. Uribe can be moved for a project player to the likes of Jon Link that may be something or nothing. Either way if either player would accept arb there is no way they will be on the Sox next Spring.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 24, 2008 -> 10:03 AM) First of all, we dont need another 2B when we have 2 on the roster and have another who may be up this summer. Secondly, Jackson is a perfect pitcher for Coop to work with. He takes a little mph of his fastball, works on controlling it and possibly it adds some movement and you have a serviceable middle of the rotation guy. Yes we have Getz and Nix, Nix will probably be our AAA 2B this season and Getz would be a better fit in Ozunas role as MI sub. There is no reason to rush Beckham and if he is ready mid-summer you can always spin Iwamura again for whatever need you have at the time. Jackson is relished for the same reasons as Daniel Cabrera, everyone thinks if you go out and get a guy who throws hard you can tame him down and teach him control, but he is who he is, effectively wild at times but walks too many people. He would be our best K pitcher, but I am not sold on him at all. Our rotation is in good shape at the moment with MB, Danks, Floyd, Javy, Count*/Marquez/Richard/Poreda.

I think Fernando Perez could be a target. He would be a switch hitting version of Carlos Gomez in Minny. Rates as the Rays best baserunner and top defensive outfielder. Not sure that he would make enough contact initially to be a table setter but could be in a year or two. He put up a .781 OPS in 60 ML at bats this season and a .754 OPS at AAA. Like Gomez, K's way too much but could be a nice addition to this lineup, especially since our pitchers are proned to relying on their defense to make plays. Jackson has too little control and has had a tendency to leave his pitches up and get them crushed, he would give up a lot more HR's in the Cell. I think someone like Hellickson would make more sense given the direction the team seems to be headed, less power pitchers and more guys that can get outs through putting the ball in play. I think Perez, Hellickson, and Iwamura for Dye and Anderson would be the ideal deal. Iwamura is a FA after 09 so he gives Beckham a year to adjust to professional baseball, Hellickson could start in AAA and would not need a spot on the 40 man roster, and Perez could provide the speed and defense that Ozzie loves. The team also clears about $9MM off the books over the next two seasons that can be combined with other savings to add a veteran SP or corner outfielder to replace Dye.

No thanks, I think Getz could probably equal the .237 AVG and .296 OBP that Crosby put up. He is not even worth McDougal.

I dont see DeJesus being a viable option as we dont match up well with them, and the outfielder that they are trying to move is Mark Teahen (supposedly to the Cubs). That scenario is less likely than a Carl Crawford trade. Iwamura would be a stopgap at 2B and can handle 3B and can handle the bat well and would be an ideal #2, and is a FA after next season, so not really an obstacle for Beckham. Edwin Jackson is not that good, he has little control and should not be a starter for the Sox, he would serve up way too many HR in the Cell. Fernando Perez, Iwamura, and Nieman or Hellickson would be a decent haul for Dye from the Rays and fill two holes and possibly three depending on how the P's shake out. It does leave a hole at one corner OF where they could throw Owens out in LF for a season if we are not able to upgrade the position through FA/trade. LF Owens 2B Iwamura RF TCQ DH Thome 1B Konerko C Pierzynski SS Ramirez 3B Fields/Betemit CF Perez

Dye for Iwamura and Howell? The only other piece that would fit woud be Upton, and I know Maddon had personality clashes with him, but I dont see that happening. If it does and the Mets deal happens, KW will get a lot of hype for his offseason moves, similar to Detroit last season.

Perez sounds intriguing because of his five tool potential, but not on a ML contract.

I wouldn't count on FMart ever playing for the Sox if he were acquired, KW is just as likely to take him and spin him to someone else. KW does not like to leave players of value in the minors when he can turn them into something that can help on the ML level. I could see KW turning Martinez to the Orioles for Roberts and trading Fields for a CF.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 02:39 AM) I don't think "renting" one year of Brian Roberts is worth Poreda and Fields...and then there's always the possibility for any players in their 30's of having a serious injury or ending up like Furcal as a non-Type A. If we can get it done with the likes of Broadway, Richard, Russell, Getz, Allen and Shelby...then it could get more interesting. But I think the O's will want at least ONE of Poreda or Fields to make this work. I think if we construct a blockbuster it will be with the Braves getting back one of Blanco/Schafer/Hernandez/Anderson to play CF, Escobar to play 2B, and Flowers to C in exchange for Vazquez and Jenks.

I think he projects to bat 5th-6th in the order, maybe 3rd depending who else is in the lineup with him and how his power develops. Not a guy you want giving up outs by bunting, may have 20 HR power, and will make consistent contact. I think an ideal number two will work counts but doesnt significantly hurt your team by taking the bat out of his hands and asking him to bunt or move a runner over, I think having Beckham do those things makes your offense less productive. Omar Vizquel is a prototypical #2 hitter in my mind, a guy that handles the bat well, works pitching counts, puts the ball in play, and can move the run over.

Don't undersell the fact that Wakamatsu's Japanese heritage may have something to do with his selection also, the Mariners have been trying to appeal to the Japanese market and lost some of the focus when Daisuke came over, this will help get them in the headlines in Japan again and can help them in their efforts to sign more Japanese players. Probably not the PC thing to say, but the Mariners really seem to embrace the Asian/American and Japanese markets. So if you have two equal candidates that would be enough to decide it for me from a business standpoint.

Hinske is not a good fit as he pretty much duplicates what you get with Betemit. I think the last player on the bench after Betemit/Anderson/Backup C/ will be a guy who can handle both outfield and MI, could be someone like Bourgeois or Shelby, not them, but someone with similar range.

Victorino is good and all, but I think he is overvalued and it would cost more than his production is actually worth. There are better options for the overall success of the team.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 09:40 AM) Keep your crap and sell your treasures! And dream, dream of the days when your crap starts winning and you can dump them at their peak Closers contribute very little to the overall success of a team, and are useless if you are not leading at the end of the games, so trade your "treasure" from someone elses that can help your team win on a more consistent basis. Obviously you arent going to give him away but if you can get a quality everyday player and potentially shore up your rotation you may need to use your biggest trade chips.

I think KW will be content to go forward with the bullpen the way that it is currently constructed and that Link, Jiminez, and Nunez will all be in competition for spots this spring. The one exception is that he may go out and try to pick up another lefty to replace Boone if he envisions Richard in the fifth spot of the rotation.

Closers have significant trade value in the market and if he can net someplayers back that give the Sox a better chance to win next year and down the road then you have to make the deal. There are several other options to close currently in the organization. The Mets indicate the asking price for Jenks is very high, and it should be, so I think KW will make sure he gets the good end of any deal that sends Jenks out of town. I think the Braves are probably the best possible destination for Jenks as they have a glut of CF prospects with Blanco, Hernandez, and Schafer, could include someone like Jurrjens, Locke, or Rohrbough and Flowers who could be AJ's backup next season.