harfman77

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 24, 2013 -> 03:48 PM) I tend to agree. Not sure why the Cards would even need Crain with their ability to pull relief pitching out of their ass. Ramirez seems to be more the Cardinals type of move, and really, I see him ending up either in Pittsburgh or St. Louis. If Peavy is moved, I would consider Boston or Arizona the favorites, with Oakland as a dark horse. I think San Fran is getting to the point of being too far down and out to make that sort of move. I think Rick is looking to find a SS elsewhere before he deals Ramirez.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 24, 2013 -> 02:56 PM) I think they'd laugh us off the phone if we asked for Russell. The problem for them is that their farm system is bad and they have very few legitimate prospects. If they want a deal they are going to have to give up Russell as they have very little else of any value.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 24, 2013 -> 01:56 PM) I would have like Delmonico for Crain. He's the type of guy the ML team is gonna need in a year or two. I would take him if he could still play 3rd.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 24, 2013 -> 02:03 PM) You mean CONTENDING teams don't trade SS like that. Some of you people are acting like we don;t have the worst record in baseball outside of the Marlins and Astors, two teams not even trying to SEEM like they are trying to win. There are rebuilding teams with better records than us. This team is not good enough to win, Alexei is 32 and getting worse quickly -- he's got to go. Yes, contending teams or teams in the off season. I am not saying we should keep him, I am saying that production at that position, even with the decline he has had the last couple seasons, is hard to replace. Teams aren't going to line up to trade a player like that in the off season.

Cant see a deal that makes sense with Oakland if Russell isn't included, and even then it is tough.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Jul 24, 2013 -> 11:00 AM) Crain > K Rod. With the season he was having, I think he still has lots of value. Reports I've read are that his shoulder is just "strained," not really structurally "injured" per se, which I assume could be verified in a physical. If so, teams should be willing to gamble he will bounce back with rest, given the way he was overused. I think teams feel that K Rod's proven ability to handle the closer role increases his value. But when you take contracts into account, K Rod is owed about $1.5M more for the remainder of the season.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 24, 2013 -> 11:05 AM) If the rest of the Sox team is good enough next year to win (highly doubtful), I'm sure they'd find a SS to approximate Ramirez production. Besides, it's not like they haven't given away playoff opportunities before to develop players. See Viciedo as opposed to Quentin in LF last year. Teams dont trade SS's with production like Ramirez because they are too difficult to replace. SS is largely a defensive position and getting a guy that can add solid offense from that position is a gold mine. In theory in works, but in practice there just aren't guys out there that you can acquire that fit the bill.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 04:27 PM) So one guy who took a lot more money is plenty? ... Not really for Dunn. He turned down a three year contract from the Nats and signed with us because of the fourth year we offered. It was an overpay certainly later, but not at the time. Hell people here were ecstatic with it. Jake Peavy wasn't a free agent. This wasn't a case of us being able to offer him more money. It was us or the only MLB town he knew for the same price. Funny you mention it though, he did sign with the Sox as a very soon to be free agent for what was seen as a very friendly contract for us. Are you saying John Danks for equal value is the savior of our franchise? Oh boy. Seriously, there's no need to spend it all in one place. If you do and it's the right fit, fine. But really, why are we still wasting out time with this conversation? Nobody is going to take Danks' contract off our hands. And again, there's a very good reason for that. The extra year for Dunn was the overpay, not the contract. I thought it was a good deal at the time, and still think it was given the status of the team at that time. But again, overpay to try and sign a guy. Peavy wasn't a free agent, right, which goes to the point the Sox have had a terrible track record of attracting free agents. The point is the reputation of the franchise is so jaded that it is tough to get established players to waive their NTC's. The Sox have not had a problem keeping guys once they have them, the problem is getting them in the door in the first place. I think John Danks could net a return a year from now that is near equal to what the Cubs just got for Garza, especially when free agency hits this year and everyone has extra money to spend, making Danks' contract look more affordable. And yes I think that is worth a whole lot more than some retreads that the Sox could acquire in free agency. I just think it is very near sighted for a rebuilding team to dump assets without holding out for maximum value especially when this team is not out of payroll space by any means. I understand most people dont agree with me. I would re-sign Floyd this off season as well though to an incentive heavy one year deal with a team option. Mostly because the book on guys like Gavin is that their stuff is usually better after TJ surgey.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 03:46 PM) Doesn't really work that way any more. To get draft picks when a free agent leaves, a team has to make that free agent a "qualifying offer" that is on the order of a 1 year, $14 million deal. The type A designation isn't really out there, it's now about the qualifying offer. They really need to change it to be more like the franchise tag in football where it is the average of the highest five paid players at that position plus some arbitrary amount.

Could be they are just trying to bridge the gap this season until Feliz and Harrison are healthy and didn't want anything on the books next year.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 04:00 PM) Webster, Gecchini, Brentz, and Vinicio way too much for Peavy and Lindstrom? Not sure...I have my xbox glasses on today though... Peavy, Rios, Reed, and Ramirez for Bogarts, Cechhini, Raunado, Brentz and Swihart.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 03:52 PM) Agreed. Peavy makes so much sense to DBacks because now their falling back and they have the position prospects Sox want/need. Not sure they fit given they don't have the payroll flexibility and would have a log jam of starters next year. They seem more in need of a rental.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 03:29 PM) Uhh, if you can limit your spending somewhere, you can spend more elsewhere. Agreed, keep the payroll open so the team can expand the payroll to add pieces when they are ready to compete. Thats what makes building the farm so important, so their is ammunition to go make those type of deals.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 03:49 PM) How are you defining "Marquee"? Carlton Fisk Albert Belle Adam Dunn That's 3 big money guys right there. Do we go down the list to Dye as well? Albert Belle and Adam Dunn, Fisk was closer to 30 years ago. Dye was more of a reclamation. The point is that it just doesn't happen regardless of the Sox financial situation case in point - these kids can play.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 03:43 PM) We don't attract any free agents because we don't go after them often. It's that simple. If we have 15 million dollars off the books, we can though. Hahn can use that to pay positional players. They will come to the highest bidder as they always do. Who would you rather have going into next year, John Danks or a positional player worth 15 million dollars going into next year? I think everyone here would take the positional player (and yes, I realize it would never be in a vacuum situation like that). We have gone after plenty, I am sure some here are still crazed about the Torii Hunter saga. The problem is JR wont deal with the guy that represents a large percentage of the elite players in baseball and he is loathe to give out long term deals after the Albert Belle debacle. Players appear to prefer to play for other teams, it has been that way for a long time. Free agents have passed up more money from the Sox to sign elsewhere. The Sox had to significantly overpay Dunn and Belle to get them on board. The Sox had to trade for Peavy twice before they could get him before finally Scott Linebrink talked him into accepting the trade. In addition there is no real quality free agents for the Sox to pursue. Cano will get re-signed, Ellsbury, Morales, and Choo are Boras clients, are Carlos Beltran and Mike Napoli the saviors for this franchise?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 03:31 PM) If we could get down to that kind of money, we could rapidly: Extend Quintana Extend Santiago Extend Beckham Extend Reed Have $30 million remaining to sign 2 marquee free agents (perhaps a 1b and an OF). All of a sudden, the team looks competitive on paper, and if someone can remind them of basic defensive and baserunning fundamentals, they could be a force in the central ASAP. Name all of the marquee free agents to sign with the Sox in the last 25 years. I can think of two. I am all for holding down payroll to take money on in trades when the Sox are ready to compete, but selling low on Danks just to dump payroll hurts a lot more than it helps. If you trade him a year from now, I believe his value will be where it was pre-injury. Danks had almost the exact same career stats as Garza before their injuries, dumping him for salary relief now is just crazy. Everyone is in such a rush to dump the guy we just signed to what was viewed as a team friendly extension and then JR is going to do the same thing all over again, I just dont see it.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 03:02 PM) That's fine but it is still a risk to see if he can return to form. 14.5 million dollars per year is a lot to risk on that. He won't necessarily hurt you but you dump him if you can (you can't and there's a good reason for that). Even if he returns to form he is market value at the absolute best case scenario. Dumping him would allow the Sox to enter 2014 with a great rotation for the cost of about 20 million dollars. That would be huge if they do actually try and compete. They could then go out and make it rain at the free agent positional player club. What is the point of having a $20M rotation? Trying to compete with the Marlins? Danks is pretty damn good and it is pretty well established that pitchers dont get all the way back until the year after they return from an arm injury. There is no need to dump payroll from this roster with what is coming off the books already and additional money coming in. Its not like the Sox are going to be a Mecca for free agents. This organization has had a real tough time attracting quality free agents over the years and that doesn't look to change as long as JR is in charge given his affinity for Scott Boras. If this team is going to improve it will need to do so through the trade market, and that means giving up quality to get quality, not dumping salary to take on spare parts.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 02:37 PM) I think Wong would be a really nice second piece in a deal for Jake. I'd rather have Joc Pederson or Chris Owings headline a deal. All about that, cheap, young, well rounded talent up the middle. I would love to get Pederson, but can't see how Peavy fits in LA next season with Kershaw, Greinke, Billingsley, Ryu, and Beckett all under contract.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 01:35 PM) http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heym...l-peavy-suitors Not unexpected that Heyman says Red Sox and Cards emerging as top suitors of Peavy possibly with Az in the mix. That's all we've been talking about here. Peavy and Alexei makes so much sense to the Cards its scary . Peavy, Alexei, Rios, and Reed all make a ton of sense for Boston as well.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 01:56 PM) I would like to see us get Stephen Piscotty. I bet they'll try to give us Carlos Martinez, too. I'm not sure how thrilled I am with Wong. I prefer Jenkins to Martinez, he is further away but I think he has a huge ceiling. Wong doesn't do much for me either, not sure how he fits unless the team is moving Beckham.

QUOTE (Bruce_Blixton @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 01:49 PM) You're probably right which is a shame since he seems like the odd man out in St. Louis. I have heard they are planning on moving on from Freese at 3B at the end of the season to try to keep payroll in check. I would assume that means they are planning on moving Craig across the diamond and getting Adams in the lineup. Of course they could trade Adams and move Carpenter over and bring Wong up, but obviously you would think they would prefer to have Adams bat in the lineup as opposed to Wongs. Also with Taveras likely taking Beltrans spot, they probably would rather not run out two rookies everyday.

I think the lineup is more like: CF De Aza 2B Beckham 1B Viciedo DH Dunn RF Corey Hart (1 year deal) SS Ramirez 3B Gillespie/Keppinger C Phegley LF David Murphy (1 year deal) EDIT: Traditionally the Sox have had to overpay to even be in the conversation for free agents. I dont expect this year will be any different.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 01:28 PM) For teams in contention, I think you will see these players really fight through the appeals system. In the case of Braun, the Brewers are f'ed this year anyways, so he can take his suspension at this point and come back next year recharged when the Brewers will hope to contend. Cruz would make sense as well from a personal standpoint as to not affect his value going into FA, unless the Rangers have told him they will give him a qualifying offer if he isn't suspended.

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 01:12 PM) Are you crazy or know something we don't? Rios would be a downgrade compared to Nava right now. It was on mlbtr, I believe last week. Said that the Red Sox were concerned about Nava's progressive decrease in production and why they were scouting Rios. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/07/cafa...avy-aramis.html

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 01:01 PM) If balance in the rotation was more important than being good at pitching, Axelrod would be in the rotation instead of Santiago. I did not say it was more important, the reason you deal him is to get some offense back. I am just saying of the four LHP's he makes the most sense to deal.