harfman77

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 28, 2013 -> 02:40 PM) Why would anybody want Flowers? Santiago is a decent prospect, nothing special. Crain is good, but old. Why would the Padres ship us all those guys for one stiff, one decent lefty and a good but aging setup man? Yonder Alonso is probably getting a 100 game suspension, and Flowers would be a decent backup to Hundley while the Padres are making a playoff push. Santiago is pretty good and controllable, and will be much better in the NL West, especially Petco.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 29, 2013 -> 05:26 PM) What about Danks + Rios for pitching prospects? Getting Danks off the books would be nice. The Giants seem to do well with diminished starters, if in fact Danks never returns to where he was. Then you look for position players with the other guys. That seems counter-intuitive, you want to get impact payers back but at the same time you are decreasing the value of what you are offering by attaching Danks contract. And there is not real good reason to trade Danks now, with an injury like his the recovery does not complete until the year after the player returns to the mount, so you are really selling at the lowest possible value given his performance and money owed.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 28, 2013 -> 11:59 AM) This is really funny. For years KW was blasted for drafting safe guys from college like McCullough and Broadway. Now he is getting blasted for high ceiling projects. FAce it for years the Sox spent all of their resources on the MLB team which left no bonus money for the draft. Now with the new rules for the draft the Sox can still allocate most of the resources to the MLB team and be competitive in the draft. Mitchell wasn't a high ceiling prospect. He was a guy that struggled with contact in college that KW thought would all of the sudden learn how to hit when he got to the pros. He was a high floor prospect because he was close to being finished when he came out of college and you knew what you were getting, good speed, solid defense and power to the gaps, and he struggled to recognize breaking balls. KW was infatuated with athletes when drafting hitters over baseball players.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 28, 2013 -> 10:54 AM) This is truth. And KW also had as much to do with that as he had to do with the length of Ozzie's tenure here. This new CBA is the greatest thing that could have ever happened to our farm system. Hahn will undoubtedly build a much better farm than Kenny had during the majority of his reign, but it will have more to do with ownership than anything else. Disagree with KW being hand tied in the draft, he tried to get fancy and go after toolsy guys like Jared Mitchell who struggled to make contact in college instead of baseball players. Agree that the CBA is the best thing that ever happened to the Sox. This will put an end to guys like Porcello who was thought of as a top 10 guy slipping to the Tigers at the end of the first round.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 27, 2013 -> 07:36 PM) “@CST_soxvan: White Sox reportedly to sign Dominican OF Micker Zapata, age 16, for $1.6 mil on July 2; sign 19th-round Louisville OF Adam Engel for $100k” That gives the Sox ~$500K left to play with.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jun 27, 2013 -> 09:32 PM) That is exactly why we are where we are right now. We draft guys who are 4+ years away that have raw talent that needs to be developed and wait on. In international free agency, all the quality players are at least 4 years away and most are 6-7 years away.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 27, 2013 -> 05:23 PM) He's 16 though -- what does good "pitch recognition" really mean at that level? I remember the jump from D3 HS baseball to American Legion. It was like the pitchers were 200% better. The whole game was different at that point, I was seeing stuff I never even knew existed. I was good at "pitch recognition" until that. And I was 18 then. I mean I think you can pretty much only look at tools at that point. They kid will have to spend 6-9 years learning baseball skills before he sees the show. The problem is that we are building this system with a lot of all or nothing hitters. Raw power is great, Juan Francisco has a ton of it, but he is on his third franchise in the last three years because the cannot make enough contact for that raw power to play. I think that the approach needs to be more balanced that going after Courtney Hawkins one year and then going after virtually the same player the next year. I just want to see more guys that are consistent contact hitters in the system that can set the table for the power hitters.

C Phegley 1B Kyle Blanks 2B Keppinger SS Alexi Amarista 3B Gillespie/Morel LF Viciedo CF Danks RF Corey Hart DH Viciedo SP Chris Sale SP Erik Johnson SP John Danks SP Jose Quintana SP Tyson Ross/Gavin Floyd CL Ramon Tronosco RP Nate Jones RP Jhan Marinez RP Santos Rodriguez RP Donnie Veal RP Joey Devine Trade Santiago, Crain, and Flowers to the Padres for Blanks, Amarista, Ross, Adys Portillo and Cory Spangenberg. Bullpen is basically a revolving door while the Sox evaulate guys from the system that can be long term contributors. Of course other deals will bring back players as well, but I they will probably not all be ready to contribute on opening day.

I'd say call the Red Sox and ask for an IF, they need some long term solution at the back of the pen and have some pretty intriguing offensive prospects. Perhaps even Middlebrooks if they have soured on him enough. The deal I would love to see is to swap Reed to TB for Guerrieri.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 01:58 PM) Answer #1: I did not put those words in your mouth. This is what I'm trying to say, spelled out as clearly as possible: - MLBTR says the Tigers are willing to give up Cast/Garcia for a closer IF NECESSARY - You suggest there is a real possibility that the Tigers would want to trade one of those for Reed, becuase he is, in fact, a closer - I say that they would never do that, because that would be an overpay, and there exist several cheaper options on the market, such as Jesse Crain or Jonathan Papelbon, the latter with which they have actually been connected by at least one reporter - Further, such intradivisional swaps of controllable talent are extremely uncommon, perhaps virtually unprecedented, because of the long-term risk each team takes by given their closest rivals weapons that may haunt them for years to come. Whether you think this is dumb or not, it is fact. If you were to not agree with me, I would expect you would do so by making an argument that overpaying for Reed somehow makes more sense than the cheaper alternatives that are currently better pitchers in the short term. To clarify further, I would LOVE to trade Reed for Castellanos, because we would clearly win that trade. However, there's no chance of it happening so long as Dombrowski is still mentally fit for his job. Answer #2: All the words. I think the Tigers are probably talking to the Phillies about a Castellanos for Papelbon deal with the Phillies picking up a large share of the money owed to Papelbon.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 12:08 PM) That is my opinion. I do not really care, If you agree or not. PK over the last year has been terrible. He is showing signs of life hitting .291 in the last month, the power hasn't been there with it yet, but I would not be surprised if he started rolling in July.

Marcum is tied with Peavy with a 1.3 WAR this season.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 11:06 AM) While he is a fit, i am wary of Yankee prospects I dont think you are getting much back or PK regardless of where he goes. Betances is a big man with a big arm that has had control issues, the Sox have been successful with guys like that, and if next year is a rebuild year again he could contribute in the bullpen while he figures things out.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 11:00 AM) There's no question Konerko could be a great fit for a lot of teams, ala Eric Karros at the end of his career. The question that remains is whether he wants to stick around in Chicago for the remainder of this contract or if he wants to go play for a contender. For all we know, he may just want to retire after this season and finish it out with the Sox. The decision is literally up to Konerko. I don't think the Yankees will be where he ends up though. I think if he decides he wants to go, he will want to go out west, considering he has a 16,000 square foot home in Glendale. Thats definitely a possibility, but if it helps the team I think he would accept a deal, especially if it gives him a shot at another WS. But as you said, we just dont know what is in his head. I think that location may have been more of a factor in the past, but since he has less than a year left on his deal the location is not as important. Not sure where he would fit in the West, the A's and Giants maybe, but I don't know that his bat plays as well in either of those stadiums. The Orioles would be a good fit for him as well with their hole at DH, but not sure he would believe as much in their chance to contend.

There was an article today that cited the Yanks lack of right handed power. With Tex presumingly on the shelf for the year, the Yanks could use a RH 1B to finish out the season. PK would get to play for a contender and the Sox get something of value back, perhaps like Delin Betances who has tanked from prospect to suspect. Obviously he would need to waive his ntc, but may do so for a chance at another ring.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 10:09 AM) You are thinking with a logical baseball brain. We are talking about the Tigers who paid more than they need to for Fielder. BTW these type of deals happen in pro sports all of the time. I agree, but they tend to happen less in baseball and usually not on this scale. Usually it is something a 3 month rental for a low level prospect (Liriano for Escobar), not really multi-year impact players changing hands. If its the only deal they can get, I am sure they probably will consider it pretty hard, but if they can make a deal elsewhere that will be good enough, they will take that over the any deal from the White Sox.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 09:46 AM) Are you predicting that the White Sox will be a last place team for the next 4 seasons? If not, this doesn't stand. The Sox are holding the winning lottery ticket right now, a player who is going to contribute to their team a lot for the next 4 years if he's not moved. If they want to move him, it better be for lottery tickets that have a really good chance of paying off better than the winning ticket they already have. You are trading a four year player for a six year player, and if the team doesn't make moves like this they will be a last place team for the next four years. Castellanos is as major league ready as they come, sure he still might not pan out as an all-star level player, but he would be an upgrade at 3B over anything we currently have. There is depth at the closer position in the farm, Webb will probably be ready to close out games in 2015. There are no rays of light in the farm system to address 3B. This is the type of move that gets the team closer to contention more quickly.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 09:29 AM) If you don't get what you ask for there's no reason to trade him and we can stop having this conversation. You trade him to get position players back that can contribute everyday for nine innings. A closer really has no value to a last place team. What I am saying, is that you don't get handed a winning lottery ticket, and then say, throw in one more lottery ticket then we have deal. You take your win and move on.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 09:27 AM) What if the Tigers feel that Addison Reed is the difference between a first round out, and the World Series? I still think they try and find an alternative, if Papelbon gets moved somewhere else or is taken off the market through some other means, the deal is a lot more likely. You will probably see Avisail Garcia traded to the Philles for Papelbon and $$.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jun 25, 2013 -> 06:19 PM) That's why you have to ask for more. It's the tigers. No way you lose that trade. Caste llanos is worth far less than y'all realize. Ilitch wants to win this year not develop a prospect. And Reed is worth a lot less than most people realize. Closers do not have a track record of bringing back prospects on the level Castellanos. You can ask for more but you wont get it cause someone else will make that deal.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 25, 2013 -> 06:17 PM) I couldn't agree more, but maybe the Tigers are thinking they wouldn't want to have Castellanos haunt them in their own division for years to come. This is exactly why this deal wont happen. Position Player >>>> Closer. As desperate as they may be to fill that gap, I can't believe they would give up a potential building block to a division rival. Castellanos is probably the #2 or 3 best 3B prospect in baseball behind Sano and possibly Rendon.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 08:56 AM) If the Sox find deals of the sort that make it worth it for them to move Rios, Ramirez, and Beckham, as well as 2 starting pitchers, then yes, it will be very unlikely for them to compete next year...but at the same time, they ought to come out of those deals absolutely loaded. There's no reason for them to move Rios and "look out I'm coming for the ball" unless they get really good offers for them, and Ramirez i'd say they only barely have a good reason to move. If they move those guys it makes competing next year much more difficult, but they ought to come out of those deals with an absolutely stocked minor league system. If that system isn't ready to compete next year, i can live with that, play the kids for next year and then have even more money to spend in 2015 when Dunn comes off the books. Thats where I think they are headed. I think they will come out of the trade deadline with some players that are probably a year away from being able to contribute and won't want to spend much money to block the players they acquire. Once Dunn is off the books, they have a ton of payroll flexibility to acquire established players and will have a deep farm system in which to acquire them with. I see 2015 being "these kids can play 2.0".

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 08:29 AM) So if you had to choose between Curtis Granderson for more money per year but 2 years and a club option for 2016 (w/ buyout) or Kendrys Morales for 3 guaranteed years at the same total amount as Granderson, which would you choose? At this point, I would lean toward Morales. Granderson seems to be on the decline and players whose top tool is speed tend to decline at a faster rate once they are in their 30's. Sure he still has pretty good power from the left side, but that is definitely aided by the little league park he plays in now. Morales is still in his prime, three years younger, and makes more consistent contact.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 25, 2013 -> 04:54 PM) With this pitching staff and the money coming off the books this year, there is zero reason why this team cannot attempt to be competitive in 2014. Between guys added in trades this deadline and having money to spend this offseason, the Sox have the ability to fill the holes on their offense and make themselves a formidable team. Of course, they also need to remember how to catch the f***ing ball. If they can't do that, they could do lots of upgrades and still fail, because high-schoolers play the game with better fundamentals than this team. It really depends who is left on the roster at the end of the year. If you move two starters along with Rios, Ramirez, and Beckham, there are additional holes to fill and the offense will take a step back. If the Sox do sell like that, I think you will see them sign some guys to 1 year deals on the cheap so that they can re-build value and the Sox can have a semi competitive team. Like perhaps Corey Hart and Ryan Madson if they have to sit out the year, allow them to build value and trade them at the deadline next year. They can fill some holes, but are they going to fill enough to catch the Tigers, Rangers, Yankees, Orioles, Rays, Blue Jays, Red Sox, and probably the Angels once they get things figured out? The danger here is being in no mans land, just good enough to be competitive but not good enough to make the playoffs. If you are going to be bad, be bad. Accumulate talent in the draft and through international free agency and bank money to trade for established players. Free agency has never been real kind to the Sox, partially because the team has refused to work with the agent that represents a good percentage of baseballs elite players.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 25, 2013 -> 03:31 PM) C - McCann, Saltalamacchia, Ruiz 1B - Lind, Morse, Napoli, Morales 2B - Cano, Utley, Zobrist OF - Choo, Cruz, Granderson, Hart, Kubel, Murphy, Pence Other than Cano and Choo, I don't foresee any of these guys getting monstrous deals. I mention Choo and Cano because they are the types of players the Sox could be interested in, but I would not count on them getting them. McCann may be spendy, but he's not out of the realm of possibility either. Really, it's not far fetched to think the Sox could add 3 of the above guys. I don't see the catchers going anywhere, I think all three probably re-sign, Kubel and Zobrist have team options, Pence will get a qualifying offer, Granderson and Hart probably stay where they are to try and rebuild value. The realistic names on that list are probably Lind, Morse, and Cruz, the rest will make more than Sox should spend on them. Those are the types of moves the Cubs made for the last 20 years that kept them as a middle of the pack team. I really don't see them spending much money to block some of the players on the farm like Trayce Thompson and Carlos Sanchez who probably wont be ready until 2015. I see the Sox signing people like Kurt Suzuki and Kelly Johnson more as placeholders and platoon partners until they have more of a foundation. The Sox do not have a great track record of attracting big ticket free agents, Albert Belle and Adam Dunn are the closest I can remember and they had to vastly overpay both of them. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 25, 2013 -> 03:24 PM) I don't think they're going to dump $50 million on scouting and roving coaches ($30 million from salary savings, $25 million from bonus TV revenue). No, but I think they will rebuild in a way similar to San Diego has. Cut payroll way down to give the team flexibility to add salary and payoff ongoing obligations (deferred money) so that the team is in good position to add in the future. Not all of that money is free either, there will be raises both contractually and through the arbitration process.