harfman77

I think a package similar to what the Astros got for Pence is realistic. Danks is a top 5 LHP in baseball. The Yankees could be desparate for some established starting pitching when CC opts out. They make take the approach of getting Wilson and Danks for what it will cost to re-sign CC. The Red Sox will also be looking for some rotation help and I read earlier this year that they are going to have 40 man roster issues this fall, so you may be able to squeeze more value out of them or at least drive up the market value.

I could see AJ end up with Ozzie in Florida, they have a good relationship, he handles pitchers well, they have been looking for someone to solidify their catching position since the inception of the franchise, and they will be bumping up the payroll to move into the new stadium. PK could end up in LA for either team, San Francisco, Seattle, or one of the teams that misses out on Pujols/Fielder. It is a common percpetion that PK only wants to go out west, but if he has the chance to win it may change his mind. The Giants would be the best fit, though I am not sure the Sox and Giants match up that well so a third team would probably need to get involved.

QUOTE (Baines3 @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 11:57 AM) He is our leader on the field we can't afford to lose him. Can't afford to lose him why? He may be the difference between 70 and 80 wins, but really does that even make a difference if you are not contending. The older he gets, the less valuable he will be. Move him if you can find someone that will give you something of value in return. Matching a team that will take PK with one he would accept a trade to is the hard part.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 10:25 AM) How about this: rumor is the Mets will non-tender Angel Pagan. If CQ is traded, we could go with Pagan, Viciedo, and Rios/De Aza. I dont really want Pagan taking at bats from De Aza or Viciedo. I think a more interesting proposition with the Mets is swapping Rios for Bay. Rios would be more valuable in the NL especially since the Mets have lost Beltran and likely Pagan. The money owed is roughly the same if you figure in Bays buyout. It clears space for the Mets to give FMart a full season shot in LF and lets the Sox get the bad salary after two years instead of three. Not sure what the Mets opinion of Bay is now, but they were really down on him at mid-season. If Bay cant return to form you have a $32M platoon DH as your biggest risk.

Ian Stewart is a guy that could use a change of scenery. If you are going into rebuilding he is the kind of guy you take a chance on, and if he gets it back, you can trade him for other pieces to help expediate the process of stocking the farm system. The Rockies are looking for a LF, getting Stewart as a throw in as part of a CQ trade would be a victory.

If Alomar is the guy... Manager - Alomar Bench Coach - Alomar Sr. Hitting Coach - Baines First Base - McEwing or Ventura Third Base - Vizquel Pitching - Cooper

I think some are deluding themselves about the appeal of the managerial job for the Sox. The good side of working for the Sox is that you have a really long leash and the organization is loyal to a fault. There is some nice young talent on the roster between Viciedo, De Aza, Beckham, Sale, Stewart, Reed, and Santos that are all pre-arb players so will likely be around for a while. The other side of the equation is that JR is still owner so the GM is handcuffed to select signable talent in the draft. There will be no Boras clients (often the best players in baseball). Secondary team in the media market. Payroll will be getting slashed and Sox will enter a rebuilding phase. The Sox are on the hook for overpriced vets like Dunn, Rios, and Peavy. You are likely losing the top two-three pitchers in the rotation going into next season. I just dont see any top candidate taking a look at that and thinking that is the situation they want to put themselves in. Dave Martinez is going to get to pick his job when he leaves TB. Tito would sit out and lick his wounds before jumping in with the Sox. The Sox are going to have to roll the dice on someone. While I like Sandy Alomar, the more I think about it the more Sandberg makes sense. He has experience in player development as he has coached at every level of minor league baseball. He has a little competitive fire in his belly as a manager. I think that the Sox should look at someone who has worked in the minors if they are serious about going into rebuilding.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 01:26 PM) Can't that be said about basically anyone in baseball? Anybody that has a dad that played in the MLB and was a coach for 30 years after playing.

I like the idea of Alomar as a manager, he has been around baseball his entire life. The thing that concerns me is that he could be Jerry Manuel all over again. I think he is a good option and worthy of getting a shot. I also think the Sox have no shot at Davey Martinez. He will be holding out for a more lucrative and high profile job than the Sox can/will offer.

I dont think the Sox could go wrong with either Alomar or Martinez. Martinez has been coaching longer, but as a catcher I think that Alomar has a good insight into both pitchers and hitters. All of my favorite managers are former catchers so that boosts the star of Alomar in my eyes. I think JR needs to hire the new GM before hiring a manager though, and if he doesn't get a new GM, might as well have Buddy Bell come in, because there won't be a lot of change in the way Sox operate and the results will be similar regardless of manager.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 07:09 PM) The original post in this thread suggested that Quentin, Danks, Floyd, Thornton and Frasor would be traded. However, no players were added to the roster. The obvious question is who could the Sox acquire for those players in trades? The other part of the question is where would any acquisitions fit on the 25/40 man roster next season. The bullpen could use some shoring up if Thornton and Frasor are gone, Reed could take one of those spots but you would probably need another LRP, especially if the Sox are going to move Sale to the rotation. Frasor could just not have his option picked up. What Danks, Floyd, and Quentin would bring back would depend on who the GM is and what vision they are able to sell to JR. If KW is GM, they will be traded for near major league talent like Flowers and Danks when they were acquired. If KW is gone the new GM may take a longer term view and go after some higher ceiling guys that are further away from contributing. But there is not a lot of space for offensive players or starting pitching on the 25 man roster without making some significant and unpopular moves. So as it stands the team starting next season will very closely resemble the one running out there now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 02:38 PM) Highly unlikely. They wouldn't trade them for Greinke last year. They offered Montero for Soria though. It depends on which C prospect you are talking about, Romine could probably be had in the right deal with Cervelli set there for a while, Sanchez could probably as well but he is a ways off.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 04:40 PM) Who is going to take AJ and his 6M salary next year? Just because a team is taking AJ doesn't mean they are taking all $6M. The Sox can eat some of that money in order to get something of value in return. The Rangers and Marlins are two teams that could use a veteran catcher off the top of my head. Its time to either play Flowers or cut him loose, another year in AAA does him no good and neither does sitting on the bench. Something has to give, and I think the Sox will be looking past next year and see Flowers is the long term option.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 11:49 AM) There's been a major change in philosophy since that draft though. We still dont draft high school players in the first round.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 11:39 AM) Mitchell wasn't considered a reach. He was according to every report that I read. He had a lot of trouble identifying pitches which he was down on a lot of draft boards. A lot of the reports felt this was because he had not committed to baseball full-time and there was and opportunity that he could make a big jump if his pitch recognition improved. His one really developed tool was his speed. He was seen as a guy with gap power, great speed, and average defense due to poor routes/reads on balls (which was also attributed to him splitting time with football).

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 11:27 AM) Not true, of late, it seems the first round pick is where the Sox try to get the best overall talent and then work out a unique contract. After the first round...no, it doesn't matter. It depends when we pick, that was the case with Sale when he was promised that he would be on the ML roster by the end of the year. With Poreda, Mitchell and Walker, they didn't have a lot of leverage and were all seen as reaches. Beckham is a case where we picked what was one the better talents on the board and got a contract worked out. The draft pick strategy only really makes a difference if the organization adapts their view to building a farm system and developing minor league talent, which probably wont be the case as long as JR is calling the shots.

Likely back next year: Konerko, Dunn, Beckham, Ramirez, Morel, Viciedo, Rios, DeAza, Flowers, Lilli Likely traded: Quentin 50/50: AJ Gone: Pierre, Castro, Vizquel Likely back next year: Peavy, Stewart, Humber, Santos, Sale, Crain, Ohman, Buerhle Likely traded: 50/50: Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Frasor Gone: Pena Likely opening day roster: LF De Aza SS Ramirez 1B Konerko DH Dunn CF Rios C Flowers/AJP RF Viciedo 2B Beckham 3B Morel BE Flowers/Lucy BE Milledge BE Lillibridge BE Escobar SP Peavy SP Humber SP Stewart SP Buerhle SP Floyd/Danks/Sale CP Santos SU Crain MR Sale/Santiago MR Frasor/Reed MR Thornton/Kinney/Lindsay MR Ohman RP Infante/Axelrod The lineup is pretty RH heavy, especially if AJ is moved. The question for the offseason is how can KW (or a new GM) trade pieces to augment what is already in place for 2012? If KW is still making the decisions traditionally we have acquired players that are major league ready for our major league players, except in the case of salary dumps. The roster is looking pretty rough next year and I think that they should look at bringing in some buy low candidates (Stewart from COL) and building up the farm for the long term.

I think Morel has produced fine for a guy in his first full season, he has filled his role really well by playing excellent defense and he seems to work counts pretty well. If others would have played to their averages this is not even an issue. A lineup should be able to absorb a rookie performer like this.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:43 AM) Don't forget Manny. KW gets a pass on Manny and Dunn as far as I am concerned. Manny was acquired for nothing and was at the end of his contract. Dunn was by all indications a perfect fit for the Sox. Rios was underperforming in Toronto and had a bad contract there. Peavy benefitted from the same stadium that made Linebrink seem competent and was coming off of a foot injury. A new GM needs to be put in place as soon as the season is over as there are some big things that need to get done.

If anyone needs to go it is KW. Enough of his idle threats about re-tooling the team, we need someone who will actually go out and do it. Perhaps if the team were to shed enough payroll the new GM could persuade JR to invest in signing amateur talent and building this team from the ground up. Ozzie has been through developing players in Florida, but I am not sure he has the patience to be the manager in charge of developing that talent. I think if the team goes young you look to a guy who has experience managing in the minor leagues.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 25, 2011 -> 01:19 PM) It has also paid off in a World Championship and another division title. You'd be hard pressed to not call the Kenny Williams era the most successful in the history of this franchise. History of the franchise? No. In the last 80 years....maybe. Though the early 90's were pretty good for the Sox and if not for the strike things may have been really different over the last 20 years.

It really doesnt matter who the GM is or who the manager is until the organization moves on from its self inflicting wounds. The Sox have nearly abandoned signing international free agents. The Sox have spent less money in the draft than any other team in baseball over the last three years hence the worst farm system in baseball. You can make an argument that every major league player that the farm system has produced in the last 5 years came into the farm system as a near major league ready prospect. The Sox refuse to deal with the best players because of their agent hence fringy specialist free agents. Hopefully once Bud retires Reinsdorf will open up to paying amateur players so that we can build this team from the ground up.

I really don't get all the love that is thrown on Rick Hahn? Is he not part of the front office that has this organization in shambles? Will he magically convince JR to start paying +slot money to build talent in the farm system? Does he have some connections in Latin America that will help the Sox starting acquiring some international talent? What makes him any different than his current boss? I am asking out of curiosity as many on this board seem to think he is the answer going forward. I would much rather have a guy that has experience in player development rather than a former agent who is good at negotiating contracts.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 29, 2011 -> 03:01 PM) Chisox, Only problem with Pierre, Brown, Viciedo is no real CF. Lilli/De Aza?

The other thing to look at is that the Sox aren't operating in a vacuum. Holding on to Quentin does not make this team better down the stretch, it makes it the same as it has been all season. Cleveland and Detroit are both getting better at the deadline, Cleveland will have a re-tooled OF by Sunday night and Detroit could add two starters. The Sox have nothing to deal on the farm to acquire prospects to make this team better this season. Trading CQ makes opens up a roster spot for Viciedo, who most here have been pining for. Viciedo's production will not be at the level of CQ's this season, but the pieces that are acquired in a CQ deal could contribute, or be spun to fill a gap on the team. If Rios and Dunn are still on the team at the deadline this team is going nowhere unless their production picks up, and if it does that will cover any loss in production from CQ to DV. The question isn't can the Sox win the division as it stands, because they could though they haven't been above .500 in three months, but can the Sox as they sit compete with a better Detroit team and a better Cleveland team, if not there really is no sense in not improving this teams financial situation as well as the chances to win down the road. I think this is much different than the white flag in the 90's too, most Sox fans were pretty invested in that team and thought we had a chance, I think this time around most Sox fans are so disgusted with the effort and production on a game to game basis that re-tooling would not be seen nearly as negatively. Its time to take a different approach to running this roster, stop trading for overpriced vets and build from the ground up, otherwise you are always hovering in the middle and that is not a good place to be. The Sox farm is the worst in the division, and in two-three years will be cellar dwellars if they can't get some young, inexpensive talent in the system.