harfman77

From Sherman in the NY Post "What I hear is the Mets are trying to locate a pitcher (probably a reliever) who is overpriced and not having a particularly strong season, but who their scouts like and pluck him for little to no prospect in return." Sounds like a match to me....

Is Dunn even a Type A free agent in the AL? According to the lastest Elias rankings from MLB Trade Rumors the lowest type A in the AL has a ranking of 77.297 and Dunns ranking is 76.667? Just asking cause I think that is a factor as well.

The other problem you have with Dunn is finding a position for him. He has said many times that he does not want to DH so it doesnt make sense to go trade for a guy who doesnt want to be here. He is not as good defensively at any position as the players we have now. The other question is if the Sox make the trade will they offer arbitration or will they be afraid of getting stuck with a ~$13M contract for next season that they dont have budget room for?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 03:10 PM) 1) Putz is not a luxury on this team, he's a necessity. You don't trade him to "get value" for him, because his value is highest to the White Sox. And yes, trading a middle reliever when the only two sure-things in the pen are the reliever in question and one other is absolutely ridiculous. The only two pitchers that I see as being able to consistently get guys out are Putz and Thornton. Santos has stuff, but has gotten knocked around a bit over the past month or so. Pena is a mediocre middle reliever and nothing more. Linebrink can't be trusted in any game the Sox are within 4 runs of the opposition. Threets is journeyman fodder. Jenks has proven to be positively mediocre this entire year. Trading Putz, at this point in time, is absolutely absurd to even consider. 2) Alonso is going to cost significantly less than Dunn or Fielder because he is significantly worse than Dunn or Fielder. You can't use a 10 game sample and declare that a guy has figured it out. Otherwise, Tyler Flowers would be the starting catcher for the Sox. It's entirely possible he got lucky on the balls he put into play during that time period. Further, that line alone tells me I don't want him simply because he's hitting for singles and doubles while drawing the occasional walk (what is that, maybe 4 walks in 10 games?), because an Iso of .079 is Erstadian in stature. 3) The Sox could also afford to go Viciedo-Beckham-Ramirez-Morel. Or Teahen-Beckham-Ramirez-Viciedo. Or they could quite conceivably spend a little bit of money on their infield because they aren't the Florida Marlins. Just because they don't have a lot of money to work with next year doesn't mean they have absolutely none at all. 4) For whatever reason, you assume that I am willing to deal Hudson, Viciedo, and Beckham for Dunn. This is simply not the case. Further, you assume that, if the Sox did, for whatever reason, deal Hudson, Viciedo, and Beckham for Dunn, that they wouldn't go out and try to find replacements from outside the organization, when during Williams' tenure, that's been the main source of finding players. Finally, if Washington is going to deal Dunn, it really should only take one of Viciedo or Hudson (because Beckham is obviously not available) plus other players within the minors, and it may be entirely possible that Williams is able to make a deal otherwise. 5) I would say Fielder is completely out of the picture. The Brewers want pitching badly, and they apparently view Hudson as a #3 or #4. That, to me, suggests that any deal between the two teams is virtually impossible. 6) I don't necessarily believe that Alonso is an upgrade over Kotsay. His numbers in the minors this year, according to minor league splits, translate to a .233/.287/.343/.630 line in the majors. His July would be nice, but then again, Kotsay's had nice splits too. Beyond ANY of this, this is only assuming the Sox deal for Dunn or Fielder. They could easily acquire Luke Scott, Adam LaRoche, Jose Bautista, or Jayson Werth too, and they could simply stand pat and let Teahen DH for a while too. Williams won't make a move unless it meets his price. 1. Putz is a 7th inning guy who has been lights out. But to keep a middle reliever instead of getting an everday player does not make any sense. There are others in the organization that can handle that role, not to the extent that Putz has, but odds are that he will come back to earth sooner than later. 2. Yes he is not on the level of Dunn or Fielder, though he is signigicantly cheaper and under team control for six years as opposed to two months for Dunn or 14 months for Fielder. 3. They could or they could have all of those players plus Alonso which would give them a lot more payroll flexibility to sign someone another reliever and starter in the offseason. 4. From all reports it will take at least two of those three to get a deal done at this point, and the rumors are that teams are not very high on Hudson. Sure Dunn will net you two draft picks next year, but I would rather have Beckam and Viciedo. 5. Agree. 6. I dont think Alonso is a downgrade from Kotsay either and it allows Kotsay to be used in a role that is better for him as a PH. I think Alonso is on the uptick and you could compare his season this year to Beckhams, both started the year slow and both have started to turn it around. LaRoche and Werth would be rentals and do little to keep the team competitive in the long term, which would be one more hole to fill in the offseason besides PK and AJP. Baustista is a fluke akin to Richard Hidalgo and will get too big of raise for his career level or production, Scott is a DH who could not even handle 1B last season for the O's and his production is outside of its norms this year as well so there will likely be some cooling off by him as well. I think someone like Alonso is good enough to put this team over the top without sacrificing much in the way of the future of the franchise and can keep the team competitive in the division for years. You could use the money that would be saved to go after a C or re-sign AJ, get an SP, and two more relievers for the pen as well as sign Thornton to an extension.

Jose Bautista is not a good hitter he has a career line of .238/.333/.422/.756 and from MLB trade rumors "Buster Olney reported today that the Blue Jays are demanding elite young players for Bautista, who leads the major leagues with 26 home runs. The right fielder-third baseman has just less than $1MM remaining on his contract this year, though he'll get a substantial raise through arbitration in 2011, his last season before hitting free agency." Bautista would be a terrible fit and his first half power is one of the biggest flukes in baseball this season. No thanks.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 01:01 PM) That's all fine and dandy, but Yonder Alonso has put up a .274/.339/.410/.749 line between AA and AAA this year. He hasn't had just a bad start in the minors, he's been bad all the way around. The Sox also have Viciedo to fill the hole at 1B next year if Konerko isn't resigned, and it's not as if 1Bman are impossible to find on the free agent market. On top that, you suggest that bringing in Dunn or Fielder might cause chemistry issues. What do you think the chemistry of the club is going to be like if they bring in a player who has never played in the majors and has sucked in the minors this season? Atleast with Fielder or Dunn, the team knows those two are very good players and have proven it over their major league careers. You also cite that neither Dunn or Fielder has played in the AL. Personally, I don't think that's a big issue, but let's say it is. How much time has Yonder Alonso spent in the AL? No offense intended, but your idea is beyond ridiculous, and the odds of it hurting the club far outweigh the odds of him helping the club. Trading Putz would be overkill, and it would deplete a bullpen that's already becoming very mediocre. Putz really is a luxury on this team, Thornton, Jenks, and Santos can handle the seventh eighth and ninth in some order. Alonso may have more of and adjustment than Dunn or Fielder, but he also would cost sognificantly less. He did start slowly adjusting to AAA this year when he was being asked to play LF on a regular basis, in his last ten games his line is .395/.452/.474/.926 so it appears he is figured it out. Putz is gone after this year anyway so you might as well get some value out of him while you can. Trading a middle reliever is ridiculous? Really? With an infield core of Alonso, Beckham, Viciedo, and Ramirez - very cheap - the team can afford to make some other moves. Adding Dunn means more money off the books at the end of the year but leaves holes at 1B, 2B, and 3B next season, unless you are dying for an IF of Retherford, Ramirez, Teahen, and Morel. Fielder would also cost at least Bacon and Viciendo, which means you would have little around him next year either and with his contract could not afford to do much to replace them in the off-season. I am not saying that Alonso is better than Dunn or Fielder, but he is a lot better option for the White Sox when everything is taken into account. He would be a better option at DH than Kotsay and would keep the Sox from having to give up any vital pieces.

Would much rather focus on getting someone like Yonder Alonso, young, under team control, and not nearly the expense in prospects. A deal based around Putz and some minor leaguers like Morel, and low level pitchers could probably get the deal done. Cinci is in win now mode and is hurting for bullpen help, Alonso is blocked behind the NL MVP and had a bad start to the season in AAA so his value is not at its peak. It also fills the hole at 1B next season and gives the team some flexibility with Viciendo at either 3B or DH. If you need to include Hudson you may also be able to pry Bailey back and give Coop a chance to "fix 'em". You might even be able to include Teahen if Rolen is hurt for a significant amount of time. Fielder is going to cost way too much in terms of prospects and $$, it appears Dunn will as well. I would rather roll the dice with a young guy than trade away the future for a big question mark. Neither Dunn nor Fielder have ever played in the AL and there would be some adjustment period and adding a veteran can cause chemistry issues, see Nick Swisher.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 09:39 AM) Mets Trying To Trade Jeff Francoeur By Ben Nicholson-Smith [July 22 at 8:04am CST] The Mets are trying to trade Jeff Francoeur, according to Mike Puma of the New York Post. The right fielder is playing less now that Carlos Beltran is healthy, and a friend told Puma that Francoeur would welcome a trade if he were given the chance to play every day. Francoeur has hit .277/.315/.437 with 18 homers since the Mets acquired him for Ryan Church about a year ago. Much of Francoeur's production came in 2009, however; this year his OPS sits at .673. Any team looking to add Francoeur will have to consider his $5MM salary (he'll earn about $2MM between now and the end of the season). If Francoeur finishes the season well, his team can retain him for 2011 through arbitration, but he is a non-tender candidate at this point. He hasnt been worth much at all since MLB decided to get tougher on the use of PED's, could be a coincidence, but I doubt it.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 06:26 AM) Ozzie said Teahen is going to get some DH time when he comes back. Anyone still think the Sox really don't need a DH? Where are they going to get one from? There is zero talent in the farm to use to acquire anything better than what we have now. Pretty much all of last years draft prospects that have value are injured and have little value and other than that the farm has been cleaned out in acquisitions of Pierre and Peavy. The only real trade chips we have are on the ML roster and is getting rid some combination of Viciendo, Beckham and Hudson worth two months of Dunn or 13 months of Fielder? No way.

I never understood the fascination with putting CQ in RF in the first place. He was average at best in LF, and easier defensive position, and people were arguing that a move to a harder position would make him better? He really is a LF, but cant play that position unless you want Pierre in CF.

Pedro seems to be nearly ready to compete this year, and with the injury to Peavy the Sox could use another arm. While he isnt what he used to be, he could be a pretty good 4 or 5 pitcher for the Sox and would not cost anything in the way pf prospects. I am not sure KW will be able to make any deals now that most of his major trade chips are on the ML roster, so I think he will have to look to unconventional means to shore up the team for the stretch run. I would like to see him bring in Delgado on a minor league deal as well just to see if he has anything left. Bringing in Pedro would allow KW to make Hudson available again if he can add another bat.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 09:22 AM) No thanks. Right handed, pretty bad production (.320 wOBA for a DH? I'd rather have Kotsay or Teahen), and will actually cost prospects. His defense at 3B is nothing stellar, in fact, he's not any better than Teahen. Gaby Sanchez would make more sense, but we're not getting him. Sanchez is supposedly available as well as they are looking to clear the way for Morrison. He would definitely cost more than Cantu though with their contract situations.

I would like to see Encarnacion at 3B, though he has been down offensively for a while. At his age, I am not sure Omar can keep up this level of production over the long haul and he is going to need someone to spell him. Beckhams been pretty good defensively during this streak, Teahen could move back to 2B when he returns from injury Becham goes down and Viciendo and PK rotate between 1B/DH. When Beckham comes back up Teahen moves to UTL role.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 21, 2010 -> 10:34 AM) Have you seen Alonso's numbers this year? He's got a lower OPS than Jordan Danks does in the International League? He's far from a sure thing and right now it's doubtful he'll be ready at the start of 2011. The only way you trade Hudson is if you are getting a proven star in return. If our corner outfielders are Juan Pierre and Mark Teahen next year then we are in real bad shape. There is a good chance Vizquel retires after this season, so I wouldn't factor him in to your 2011 plans just yet. I agree, hopefully Viciendo or even better yet Morel is ready to take over 3B full time next year, but I think the combination of the three I mentioned will get you through the rest of the season. The priority in the off-season becomes signing a RF and Teahen becomes UTL backing up CI/2B/RF/LF.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Jun 21, 2010 -> 09:34 AM) And he blew it and cost the Sox some wins? Eh... I still say I don't wanna ruin Sale's growth. Maybe they should try Threets first. Or Tascher.

Yonder Alonso perhaps, young, cheap, can step in next season at 1B if/when Paulie walks and is blocked behing Votto. Maybe the Sox could swing a deal with Quentin, Hudson, and another lower level spect for Alonso and Bray. Teahen could move back to the OF and use a combination of Viciendo/Vizquel/and possibly Lilli at third.

QUOTE (maggliopipe @ Jun 18, 2010 -> 12:50 PM) If he doesn't play every day, does Steve Stone go off on Ozzie? I think Ozzie will play him once the Sox get past Strasburg, he once the kid to start off with success and build confidence on this level so he is going to pick matchups at first to build confidence and then let him go. I would not be surprised to see him hit tonight as a PH late in the game or brought in if the game gets lopsided in one way or the other.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 18, 2010 -> 11:17 AM) IMO this move is going to result in either Pk, andruw, or Q being moved soon. I think it depends on what happens in the next month. If the Sox close the gap on the Twins, PK is going nowhere and it will likely mean that CQ has picked it up with the bat. Teahen will come back, Viciendo slides to DH full time, Lilli goes back to AAA. If the Sox dont make a move to contend, then I two of the three will be gone by the end of July. I cant see KW selling this low on CQ.

QUOTE (djcollie03 @ Jun 15, 2010 -> 12:31 PM) I know Ozzie and KW have had a strained relationship over the years. Something about this recent flare-up doesn't seem kosher though. You can't be mad at the organization for taking your kid and giving him $50k when everyone else was passing him up. Seems to me like a pretty nice thing the Sox did for the Guillen family. The reason everyone passed him up because he was an impossible sign for anyone other than his dads team. KW drafts his no-talent son in the seventh round but passes on a legitimate talent that is primed for the WS out of spite towards his dad. It was apparent to me that was Kenny's way of removing any awkwardness that would be in the organization when Ozney is in the farm and his dad gets canned (or so Kenny wishes).

KW is the one who talked about needing a lead off hitter for a long time before Pods started working last year, then went out and drafted another High K rate guy to be the CF and leadoff hitter of the future. He pursued Pods and Brett Gardner in the off-season before settling for Pierre. The Sox player development is a joke, the longer guys are here the worse hitters they become. We have a depleted farm system, have bad contracts throughout the ML roster that hamstring the team from making any moves to improve.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 12:26 AM) Reinsdorf has an amazing bond with Ozzie. If Reinsdorf calls the shots, Ozzie will be here for as long as he wants. Wouldnt that mean that Kenny is on his way out then?

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 13, 2010 -> 08:36 PM) Sure, just look at all of the highly-qualified armchair GMs on Soxtalk! You need to know how to evaluate talent, which is why a lot of GMs were former scouts. You also need to know the league and each team's farm systems extremely well. This is exactly what makes me apprehensive about Hahn, not sure that he can identify and evaluate talent. What we do know about him is that he is a good negotiator in terms of getting contracts signed. If the Sox are going to be competitive over the long haul the team is going to need a strong farm team to continously provide talent to the ML club. Then use the majority of the payroll to fill in gaps. I guess it all comes down to the philosophy of how an organization should be built. I want a guy that values a strong farm system and player development over everything else because we are not going to win many bidding wars for top flight free agents and when you have a strong farm system you always the ability to fill in holes in the roster either through promotion or by dealing prospects for talent.

What does Hahn bring to the table? His only experience in a ML front office is negotiating player contracts from all I can see, and that is not a skill that is irreplaceable in the front office.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 12:24 PM) Rick Hahn, hopefully. And somebody not as ignorant about stats as Ozzie is as a manager. Or somebody who won't put s***ty players in key positions in the lineup. I see Rick Hahn mentioned a lot, but his resume doesnt really lead me to believe he is equipped for the job. He has a history as an agent and is responsible for contract negotiations. He has learned how to run a player development program from KW. That does not instill me with a lot of confidence that things will get turned around. I am not saying he is not an option, I just am not sure what he really brings. I am sure that there are a lot of people here who know more about him and I would like to hear from them.

The argument if/when/why they should get fired is pretty prevalent on this board, but who replaces them if they leave. To replace the GM I would want a player development guy like Abe Flores from the Angels, they do an excellent job of identifying and securing amateur talent and which leads to success on the ML level. For a manager, I want a former C. It seems like Torre, Girardi, Scocia, Francona all have a good idea of how to deal with Pitchers and are aware of the struggles of being a hitter. Someone like Sandy Alomar would be good if we need someone with Sox ties, or Tony Pena if we want experience.