quickman

QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 13, 2005 -> 08:13 AM) YAS.. his head is up his ass because he thinks he's all that! He THINKS he's the best out there.. he THINKS he belongs there.. he THINKS he will not get sent down. He doesn't think about getting sent down... Wille only thinks about Willie. Plain and simple. People on the trade thread were talking about a clubhouse cancer if we trade for somebody, in my opinion this guy was something of a cancer. Can you imagine the other players when he would walk around thinking he was some kind of allstar? I mean really, this guy has had an attitude problem since he was drafted. I think he listen too much to mommy and daddy when they said your the best baseball player out there (when he was 8 years old)

from what I read, Burnett definetly wants to be a free agent next year. He said no matter what he will go in the market. THis is typically not what KW goes after. he likes to get guys with another year, or guys who give him an indication of sign ability. In addition Burnett is very injury prone. Long term contract on that is risky. I don't see it. I think the Whitesox will be mentioned as buyers in every trade rumor.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 13, 2005 -> 08:11 AM) quick, I was just giving you a hard time. Trust me, I've said all year that I'm not counting the Twins out, I think they're a great team and that they'll get into the playoffs one way or another. BUT, you did tell me in early May that the Twins would be in first place within a week, so for that you recieve one of these I remember, want another one...Indians will take three of four and this board will be clamoring for a trade.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 13, 2005 -> 08:01 AM) You would get along great with him then, believe me, I know from experience. schoo fly, before you get squashed.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 13, 2005 -> 07:17 AM) Unfortunately things like this cost more than just prospects. Sinking in yet? Totally agree with win now, the opportunity is there, if you can get things done with just prospects, great. Trading only prospects usually doesn't interrupt the good vibe, it enhances it. Add to the chemistry, don't f*** it up. If you were in charge, this team would have been altered 19 times already this season ... bad approach. So now you know. Not true but I would not worry about hurting the boys feelings. Boo hoo, cry babies. I would indeed agressively pursue Visquel and schmidt and Ryan Freel

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 10:15 PM) Just because I disagree with you, remember after the first dray series how you told me the Twins would be in first place within a week???? You were wrong Rowand I actaully was not posting this to you, but to your buddy JimH. Anyway, don't take me so seriously. I still mean what I say, but there is alot of read between the lines in what I post. And I am not done thinking the twins will be there. This will not be a cakewalk.

I am not trying to pile on Willie (I hate him) but I do continue to feel we gave him many chances. KW for years has been telling sox fans and the press how Willie is going to be a star. Well, here is another failed young prospect (I realize he was not ours to begin with). Willie is done playing for the Sox barring injury and quite frankly will be nothing more than a back up 2baseman or 25th man. Great Potential but as we know Joe Borchard had great potential as well.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 07:41 PM) Nothing is ever guaranteed, you are right. to reiterate, chemistry is bulls*** and is the job of the manager and leaders of the team, the sox should do everything to make this team better including trading away any of there prospects for the right deal. Win now not later. Am I repeditive enough for you? Get omar visquel, Schmidt and whatever else you need. This team today is not good enough. And yes your views on Italian Beef are a bit over rated lately.

So this chemistry thign is full of s***, because nobody really knows who is good chemistry or bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 04:19 PM) As a 3 month rental [ok two month after the suspension], who needs to "prove himself normal" in order to get a decent contract in 2006 [ like AJ] it wouldn't matter who is agent was. As long as his head wasn't messed up [sounds like Texas was planting stories to the media about him], Rogers would be a nice arm, IMO. The asking price wouldn't be near as high as others mentioned, like Burnett, Schmidt, et al. And other needs [bat, bullpen] could also be addressed. I'd be more concerned about his fitting in with the team. His good glove, his ability to keep teams from running, his good GB ratio, his all would be nice additions. Well I must say I really like this board alot (I mean it) there is such a disparety of comments that its hard to keep track. While I agree he has talent and would help, what would all those people who think we could disturb the chemistry think? All those saying don't mess with this chemistry. You literally would be taking on the most contraversal figure in the game at this time. Where are you people!!!? Where are all those chemistry experts!

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 04:08 PM) I think KW has to think in terms of turning this club from one that is thought of as solid but overachieving, to a club that starts to dominate all comers. We've been that way against the weak teams, but we've only really just been competitive against the better teams, and we still have a blind spot against the A's (the same kind of blind spot we used to have against the Twins). That's going to require even better pitching - starting and relieving - and an offense that can beat lefties and righties equally. We have the best record in baseball. But an upgrade in talent would allow us to claim title to being the best team in baseball. When we go into the postseason, I want the White Sox to be the team that everyone else is trying to beat. Exactly my point.

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 04:01 PM) i'm not kenny rogers fan but just because a guy's a douche to the media doesn't mean he'll be bad in the clubhouse. but as beck said, ajp could probably give a good assessment of his attitude. Doc, twenty game suspension which he probably won't start serving until the end of the month, Boras as the agent, and he desparatly wants a new three year contract. he is not coming here.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 03:43 PM) KW better trade for a starter to top that. If KW knew that Minnesota was about to trade for Rogers, he'd better step in to prevent him from going there or get someone that's better than Rogers. ahh hah, (not with reference to you) so if the other teams get better then its good to trade? The twins and Tribe will make trades, why in the world would the sox sit on there hands.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 03:41 PM) I'm not really sure what point Gammons or Brian Cashman are trying to prove. The Yankees won those 5 championships with only 3 self-developed position players (Jeter, Bernie, Posada [and he wasn't a starter until the 3rd championship run]), one starting pitcher (Pettite), and one reliever (Rivera). Their teams were always built around free-agent and trade acquisitions. The Braves, on the other hand, are an extreme example of a team capable of developing their own talent. But they've also signed their share of free agents. I don't think we can compare those teams to the White Sox, as we just don't have comparable financial resources (Yankees, Braves of the 90s) or minor league player development (Braves). I agree and in addition I think the braves, have better scouting and a better org than we will ever have.

QUOTE(Spod=Ratings @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 03:24 PM) Dont know if it was posted,On ESPN insider it said texas may be shopping Rogers and the only 2 teams listed as interested was the Twins and White Sox Just thought id pass that along He is represented by Boras, and he has played for minnesota. Guess where he will go.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 03:14 PM) That's an interesting twist and a good perspective on when the Yankees fell apart. The thing is you don't want to get 5 years down the road and look back and see Jon Garland and Dontrelle Willis at the All-Star game, meanwhile still looking for guys to fill their shoes. Tomorrows stars come from somewhere, and it isn't todays 35 year old declining players. There is a delicate balance here. If you aren't the Yankees you can't afford a $10 million starter at every position and you need some $500,000/yr starters to go with your $10 million/ yr starters. You can't just rape the farm system hoping to win today or you end up in a hole like Detroit, Yankees, Mets, Orioles etc, where it takes years to recover. I need a better understanding of why they play baseball, is it to win the world series? How many times do we have a team like this? I mean a legit chance with real good pitching? The Twins are not the same this year, and the Tribe may only be two pitchers away next year.Time to strike. Screw the farm. Remember- Borchard,myette, olivo,stumm, wing, Ruffcorn, Snopek,Rauch, Caruso,Pearson,Scott Christman, MarK Johnson,Leifer,Dallearo,Honel, Tim Hulet, Joel Skinner, Kenny Williams,JimSiwy,Tony Menendez, Russ Morman, Tom Forrester,Ken Patterson, Melido Perez,Adam Peterson,Johnny Ruffin, Ramon Garcia,Rod Bolton,Brandon Wilson,Steve Schrenk,Brian Boeringer,Jeff Abbott,Greg Norton,Luis Andujar,Mckay Christiansen,mario Valdez, Josh Paul,Tom Fordam,Brian Simmons,Lorenzo Barcelo, Jason Dellero,kevin Bierne,pat denaker,Matt Ginter,Brian West,Corwin malone, Dennis Ulacia,TIm Hummel,Felix Daiz, and on and on and and On. You see I had to hear about all these guys at one time or another being within our top prospect list. If your a blue chip prospect then keep them if not they all suck.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 03:11 PM) First off, Iguchi will probably improve in the 2nd half rather then decline. Second, if there was one guy in baseball who can hit behind the runner as well as Tadahito has done it'd be Vizquel, Omar would be the only guy in baseball I'd even think about giving the 2 hole instead of Tadahito. My point is Iguchi has earned that spot and shouldn't just be kicked out of it cause he has been absolutely unreal there this year. Anyways, if the Sox did acquire Omar something that I'd like to see is Iguchi in the 3 hole and Frank in the cleanup slot. I say that because with Vizquel and Tadahito's ability to put the ball in play when they need to it'd almost be an automatic run when Scott got on base and got himself in scoring position. Rowand I understand your thinking and I will not try to change it, I will say that Iguchi is a nice player who has never hit second in his life. He is doing a great job, but my loyalty is to the team not Iguchi himself. Iguchi will do as he is told without complaint, unlike the american players. I am sure if visquel comes in it will all work out.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 03:07 PM) Remember all the Miguel Olivo love last year and how we traded away the next version of pudge. This mini-pudge has spent most of his time going between the bigs and AAA. Prospects are just that. And plus with our track record of watching prospect after prospect wet themselves when they come up, who cares. I would rather good deep into the playoffs instead of having uber crap stain prospect number 10. Thank you me too, and really do we miss Jeremy Reed? Who would you rather have with this team Reed or Garcia. I think the point is made. It really is about right now, it can take years to build a unit to go to the World series. Cleveland started over, one day we may need to do that but not now. We need veteran good ball players who have playoff experience.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 02:59 PM) Tadahito has been as good of a number 2 hitter as there has been in baseball. So what, does that mean he will remain that way? Teams won't figure him out in the second half? We are talking about improving a ballclub, putting the pieces into place. Quite frankly I really don't care one bit who hits where, I am not some 15 year old with a crush on a player. Get the players, and its OZZies job to put them where they belong. I will not lose sleep over Visquel hitting second instead of Iguchi. Will you?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 02:51 PM) I think my whole perspective on this trade discussion can be summed up by these words from Gammons. Then I suppose your on the side of not trying to improve this team, because we won't get a player unless we give up prospects. I think something like 9 out of 10 prospects don't make it. But don't tell that to all those Baj lovers out there. PS two years ago you wouldn't have traded Borchard to improve. Now look at him...He blows.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 02:07 PM) I'm definitely starting to buy into Randa, especially if Crede's back becomes an issue. We can't have Ozuna and Uribe starting on the left side, that's just a killer on the lineup, and the D takes a hit too. Vizquel would be nice, but his salary is kind of rough, and I'm not so sure that the Giants will even trade him, especially since Bonds coming back and Schmidt potentially returning to form can make them a real competitor in the NL West for next season. Personally I don't hink its our business to worry about salary structure when we are going for a world series winner. I heard JR the other day on the radio and he said payroll is not an issue if we get who we want to get. KW has free reign. Payroll issues should be discussed when putting together a team at the beginning of the year. Most likely we will draw between 2.1-2.3 million fans this year. In addition if you get the players you want, you will pay ahlf there salary this year and then you can re-work your payroll next year if need be. PS we won't have to re-work payroll if we get to the World series. We will have lots of money.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 12:35 PM) He's still adjusting and doing an incredible job. Why would we want to make him adjust to something else? because visquel is a better more experienced 2nd place hitter and because iguchi is probably a better hitter lower in the lineup as he proved in Japan. But it doesn't matter unless visquel comes here so arguing about what spot in the lineup is futal at this point.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 12:27 PM) I don't know if I like that idea. Iguchi has been perfect in the 2 slot. If Vizquel comes in, he should be down in the order, possibly 9th to be able to have Vizquel, Pods, and Iguchi up in order. Milkman normally I would agree 100% and I just still might, but the option of moving iguchi down plays to iguchis natural hitting style. This is the very first year he has ever batted second, and he is still adjusting, Doing well I might add. I think this scenerio gives us tremendous flexability.

QUOTE(SHAFTR @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 12:21 PM) The Diamondbacks, outside of Luis Gonzalez, had a rather unspectacular lineup. The Schilling/Johnson thing really helped them out. The Angels had a great, great bullpen that year. They had a very good line-up as well. Spiezo, Glaus, Anderson, Salmon and Fullmer all had very good years. Their rotation featured 4 guys who had ERAs in the 3s. The Marlins had some great years from Pudge, Derrek Lee, & Lowell along with the shot in the arm Pierre and Cabrera were giving them by getting better and better as that year went on. AIn the rotation, Redman, Willis and Becket all had ERAs under 3.5. Pavano and Penny were average, at worst (ERAs in the low 4s). The yankees were still probably better, but these teams still had quite a bit of talent. And we don't have a guy hitting over 300. We do have pitching though and thats what we need.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 12:20 PM) If the Sox get Jason Schmidt and he pitches like he's capable (thats obviously a question-mark) than they do will have the ability go into the playoffs and potentially dominate based on pitching. Personally I'd like to see the Sox add Schmidt, Vizquel, and a quality reliever. If they do that they'd have 4 good starters (Contreras as the 5th and into the pen in the playoffs) as well as a very strong pen (especially if they could add a guy like Everyday Eddie) and a very solid lineup. Just imagine moving Guchi down to the 6th spot with Vizquel in the 2 hole. Guchi is the type of player that could produce at a higher clip (production wise) if moved down. Not to say Guchi isn't a good 2 hole hitter (he is) but he could also have a lot of success in a more production oriented spot, imo. I think Kenny should go all out and there are only a few pieces I'd really hold onto. Brandon McCarthy is one of the guys I'd like to see the Sox keep, but the only can't trade guy I have is Chris Young (I'll deal other guys). YES YEs and I don't care which minor league players they trade.