quickman

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 12:16 PM) we have 4 all stars, how many did the Angels, D-backs and Marlins have? We have allstars but I wouldn't say we have superstars. I don't think Garland is a superstar, or Pods. Allstars to me mean they had good first halves. LEts just end this because we disagree and nothing you or I will say will convince me otherwise. I say you need to get better players, you say they are good as they stand. I will be more than happy to say your right..but your not!

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 12:01 PM) I'm with you, Cards are the best team in baseball (especially if Mulder pitches like he can). Thats not a knock on the Sox at all, rather a tribute to how good I think the Cards are. However, the addition of Jason Schmidt and Omar Vizquel or players of that magnitude could definately even up the playing field and put the Sox on par with the Cards (they wouldn't have the offense, but that pitching staff would be very nice). We are on the same page.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 12:01 PM) Tell that to the Marlins, Angels, Diamondbacks etc etc etc All these teams won the world series with superstars on there team. I hope you do not think that the Whitesox have a better team than any of these three.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 11:54 AM) The NL is weak like the Ukraine, and the NL central is one of the weakest divisions in baseball. i would take the Cardinal team over the Whitesox team right now, including there manager. Talent always beats out scrappiness.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 11:53 AM) A lot of people didn't think St. Louis was that good last year. Everyone thought their pitching would be their downfall, and they made it to the series. The Cards and Marlins are another story. I'm not even thinking about them yet, especially since the Marlins might not be in the playoffs. If they end up trading Burnett, they're nowhere near as scary. Even with him, Beckett and Willis aren't exactly dependable starters, and their pen isn't that great. St. Louis could be a problem if Carpenter and Morris keep pitching like this and Mulder pitches like he should. However, that wouldn't happen until the series, which is a long way off. I am not sure i understand your point. You brought up the cardinals, now your not thinking about them? The cardinals had practically an allstar team lineup last year with solid pitching. The Whitesox have nothing near superstars, in there lineup. There are no potential MVP's on the whitesox, the cardinals had two last year and possibly a distant third in Edmonds.

First I am not reacting to one series. i have been pretty consistant on my feelings about this. Furthermore, the Cardinals were and are still currently a great team. Last years Cardinals were better than this years Whitesox. And we all know they went to the World series. This years Cardinals are better than this years Whitesox as it stands today. The record may not say so, but they are In my opinion. We are all entitled to our opinions and mine is get better players.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 11:36 AM) Ass Kisser. I am making too much sense my friend.

This is very interesting it appears that many on this board think we can win this thing with the team we have. very interesting, I personally do not think we can. What happens when we lose 3 out of four to the indians, are all the same people going tostart clamoring for a trade? I have seen many Sox teams over decades, outside of 83 and 93 this is the best team I have seen from the sox. As proven in the past, teams like this do not come along very often, to sustain, our luck, our pitching our timely hitting and the mediorcre play of the Twins lately I believe we need to think bigger than the try hard happy go lucky guys we have. Talent will always eventually win over scrappiness. Get better talent, and yes for THIS year visquel would be great, he is proven, batting well, and fielding is equal to Uribe, not to mention he would be a good leader. Furthermore what makes everyone think El Duque is coming back and will not get injured again, or that Crede won't hurt his back, or that injury prone guys like Everett, or dye won't get injured again, or that teams won't figure out iguchi, from all they learned in the first half, or that Thomas won't stub his toe or twist his ankle. We need more. Don't think for a minute Minnesota or the Tribe will stand pat.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 11, 2005 -> 10:08 PM) Thank you for this tidbit Nostradamus. How do you think of these things with such clarity and clairvoyance, it is uncanny. Nostradamus also says you are nuts to think vasquez is going anywhere.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 11, 2005 -> 10:01 PM) A giant hell yes to Ryan Freel. Perfect fit, we can take him to the Blatz bar after the game too. Another fit is Mackowiak, that's been beaten to death on this board by His Bannedness. Just kidding lurker. I suspect there are more, Freel fits best because of his speed, I don't see the Reds parting with him but who knows, every team has their price. jim that organization is in such disarray, we can get him if we pursue him. By the way separate note, I do think they will try to package Willie harris in some trade. He will not be back with the sox next year. He is arbitration eligable and will be gone. So I do think, they are trying desparetly to move him. They better make some moves. Nothing will be announced until after the allstar game. The next two days are safe for all.The league doesn't want any distractions.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 11, 2005 -> 09:52 PM) Well, that's what you and I have been saying all along. Get a better bench, and you and I agree that Willie does not constitue having a strong bench. Not meant to open the whole "Willie sucks, no he doesn't" debate that's gone on here for 8 months, but heck I would take this Wilton Guerrero guy they signed for Charlotte over Willie. This guy plays all the positions and he's got experience. As for pitching, you can never have enough and I suspect the White Sox don't, and I expect KW will do something about it. Ideally they need a guy who pounds the strike zone, now who would that be, I hate to bring it up again but Javier Vazquez pounds the strike zone. As for the bench, KW had a fiasco with Brian Daubach so he wants a guy who's content to be a bench player. Forget about Graffanino, that's why he left and let's stop trying to read his mind as to what he'd want or not want. We don't want a guy who's more concerned about his numbers in a contract year vs. coming off the bench and contributing. That screws things up, not indicting Graffanino here but the point stands. Think of the guys KW has liked and/or went after, and you have a decent chance of figuring out who he might target. Well it looks like we agree again except for Vasquez, he is not coming here. I don't think the tribe will stand pat, and I think the twins will get another player Despite the terrific Clubhouse chemistry they have had all these years. Personally, I like Ryan Freel always have, but as long as he improves this team, thats what I care about. I will also take cintron although I don't think he is up for grabs.

you writing a book, come on, come on

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 11, 2005 -> 09:33 PM) Well we agree on getting the talent. Why would we not, and why would the White Sox not want the best team possible? They do, we do. They (and perhaps I) place more weight on a good clubhouse being a huge contributing factor toward a winning team than you do. Given their recent history under KW, I can understand why they'd think that way. By the way, Pierzynski in a lot of ways came hat in hand. He wanted the AL so the Sox lucked into him. A lot of winning is fortuitous, so is chemistry. It's worked out so far. I am convinced they see the holes and will do everything possible to enhance the roster. In a way it was good to hit this speed bump, they have 4 tough ones with Cleveland coming up and this is a litmus test. They've passed most of those this year but they will get tougher tests. Bottom line here, you can't be afraid to add in a year like this, presuming most if not all of the cost will be prospects. Personally I don't think the chemistry thing will come into play if the Sox traded prospects for proven talent. You are right, word gets around, these guys know one another. Where chemistry would be altered is when you start making a s*** load of changes ... as often suggested on this board by some of our more, umm, knee jerk compadres. "Trade Crede for Randa, then trade Uribe for Vizquel, then turn around and trade Dye for this OF, and then make 2 more trades and we win the World Series." They won't do that and they shouldn't do that. Add, don't subtract. In a year like this, all prospects are fair game. Different scenario than last year. Ok I think we are now on track. I would add if it takes getting rid of one guy on our roster then I would chance it based on the person we get in return. As so many say, its a business. There will be so many trades in the next two weeks it will make this conversation look dumb. Many players will change address, all of them have friends, all there wives get along and so on. Get omar visquel, get schmidt or another starter, in fact I would trade to let this team know we will do everything to win the world series. if we don't trade, and we fall short, a good clubhouse means s***. By the way we are finding out what happens when our starting third baseman or starting shortstop or starting second baseman would get injured.We are not deep enough. If crede, Uribe or Iguchi goes out for a month OZUNA and or HARRIS will not take us to the promise land. Thats how vulnerable we are right now.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 11, 2005 -> 09:18 PM) I agree with the last sentence, an extra piece or two is needed. Some of these guys will be exposed down the stretch. Just my opinion. If it can magically get done with mostly or all prospects, they'll do it. It would not surprise me if the addition came after the trade deadline though. As for the chemistry part, easy to say what you said. In practice, it's a lot more complicated, whether we the fan like it or not. Ok we disagree, go figure, but its Ozzies damn job to control this stuff. Lets say we didn't get AJ at the beginning of the year, and now he was available, would you be scared to get him? Think about it. All these guys know each other, word gets around. I think its all overblown. I also think Ozzie shouldn't keep bringing it up. It says two things on a negative side to me. The first is that Ozzie doesn't feel he could control things, (which I don't think is true) the second is they are guarding the whitesox public in case they don't get someone. Anyone coming here will come from a team that won't make it too team that has a great shot to win it all. Its Managements job to control things. Its the veterans job (thomas, Konerko, Buehrle, AJ) job to help control things. GET THE TALENT

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 11, 2005 -> 09:05 PM) No, don't agree with this. Very easy to dismiss chemistry, you know personally when you have a good vibe going at your employer and when you don't. Yes they are professionals and it should not make a difference ... they are human and it does matter. My concern is chemistry has become an all consuming factor. They had bad chemistry for 3 years and finished 2nd. Good chemistry is not the sole reason for the 9 game lead ... far from it. It is a very positive factor but it's not the sole reason. As such, it's managements responsibility to add talent to the mix and maintain the chemistry, or enhance it. We will see if they are right or wrong. They have said anyone they bring in will have to fit in. They are adamant about that. It remains to be seen if that's the right call or not. What will likely happen, they will find a guy or two who they already like and are certain will fit in. That's why I still believe the Giants thing has legs. Schmidt is known for being a gamer and they love Vizquel. Not saying those are the only two targets but it's a perfect example. Any acquisition will have to fit, both on and off the field. Sox mgmt. mantra, not mine. Message to them, your being paid millions, grow up, its Ozzies job and the leaders of the club to keep the "chemistry" Add the pieces you need and win ballgames. I run a sales team, they all get paid, chemistry is good when the numbers are good, the team sucks when the numbers suck. If someone gets out of line, its my job to get them in line, if I need help doing that I reach for my top contributors to help guide. Its done. Get the talent, I don't want this chemistry crap to stop them or be used as an excuse not to trade. They need pieces to win this thing, they CANNOT DO IT with this current team.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 11, 2005 -> 07:45 PM) Well, this Griffey chatter is interesting but I agree with those who say it will never happen. Guillen has come out and said they do not want to add a superstar position player. I know people are damn sick and tired of hearing about clubhouse chemistry but bringing in KG Jr. alters the chemistry in a big big way. First I agree this griffey stuff is nonsense, secondly this club house chemistry is crap as well. The players and manager will make sure everything is fine. Jim, let me say this, if we should blow it and come in second, does it matter if we have great clubhouse chemistry and if all the "guys" like each other. Thats crap, get some better ballplayers and the chemistry and winning will take care of itself.

He is a presence in there lineup a presence that could catch fire despite his off year and no more steriods.he will still make a pitcher think, probably a bit more than punto.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 11, 2005 -> 09:52 AM) If I wasn't sitting on my couch in amazement at some of the moves this weekend, I would have never started this thread. Flat out, I'd be willing to bet more people agreed with me that Ozzie sucked this weekend than those that believe he had nothing to do with our bad series. Just cause they're the frontrunner for manager of the year, it doesn't mean they're perfect. A great example of that is how Bruce Weber s*** the bed at the end of the Ohio St. game in basketball this season. No doubt, Weber deserved the coach of the year. However, I've never seen a coach be so clueless down the stretch in a game (sorry for the basketball comparison, just that I know a lot of people on here are Illini fans). fathomI do agree Ozzie had a bad series. I also think he needs better playrs to win a world series.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 10, 2005 -> 07:44 PM) Well, I hope the bakery was better than the game. I too would have taken my chances with Scutaro in that situation. On the Frank out at home situation, one mistake was compounded by another. Thomas got a terrible jump from 2nd with two outs, and all it took was a decent throw by the LF, guess what, he made a decent throw. Tons of mental errors all around today. You should have heard DJ on the tv when Harris was attempting to bunt ... "it looks like Willie is trying to bunt to third. You absolutely do NOT bunt to third base with Chavez 40 feet away, it's that simple." Added Hawk, "Yup, it looks like he's trying to bunt to third." We still need better players. And we will get them...soon.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 10, 2005 -> 06:26 PM) I would not be moving my starting SS around to other positions. That's why you have a backup infielder. If Ozuna is that bad at 3B they need a different backup IF plain and simple. The worst move was leaving Cotts in to face Melhuse. That made zero sense. Oh by the way, seeing as Willie Harris can't seem to get a bunt down at key times, I would say they need a better player there too. this is dead on, why in the world do you not bring politte in after you intentially walk the bases loaded. politte was ready. Why is cotts facing him? this made no sense. I also did not like the idea of pitching to swisher at the end of the game, with one out and 2nd and third. I take my chances with scuturo despite his series being good. In addition, why is Joey cora sending frank thomas home on one leg? This made no sense to me. Harris should have been sent down after the game.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 06:42 PM) Speaking of the juice, I have a feeling Timo uses it.... Good I hope he gets caught

QUOTE(ChWRoCk2 @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 06:41 PM) ozuna grounds out to zito why are we playing another sunday lineup? Crede is more hurt than you think, AJ struggles against tough lefties.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 06:39 PM) Juice i know, just wanted to hear. and quite frankly I don't think that is surprising to me.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 06:37 PM) His power numbers are really down. In my mind, and according to the father of a Sox minor leaguer, there's a reason for that. Your suggesting

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 06:37 PM) Was June 8th the day he said he was changing his swing a little? "Gee, I'm hitting for a pretty good average, but I don't have many homers. I best change that!" he and Konerko have bit the dust.