Texsox

You all are right. But realize we are saying there can be no 100% victims of fraud, they all should have known. No matter how stupid, gullible, naive, you are, you should have known. At worst case, you should know how stupid you are and not go into stores without a lawyer. Anyone surprised you can walk in and buy a $100,000 car, lie about your income, have the dealership alter the contract, and in less than two hours drive off the lot in the car? Stupid people when they get screwed. And with that, I'm done. No wonder our corporations are morally bankrupt. People accept companies screwing over anyone who is stupid. You can't be a victim if you are stupid enough to sign the contract. But then nobody is that stupid to sign a contract without understanding it.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 11:01 PM) Agreed. But when it's all said and done, it's the people that determine this. Yes indeed. And in most Churches it will be a handful of people who will determine it for the group. Amazing when a spirit catches hold of a congregation. Powerful stuff. I believe faith is meant to be shared.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 07:01 PM) My Dad said he bought his ammo off the same website the asshole from VaTech used for his killings. Anyone else read this? There is another thread about it. He was also a customer. The dealer turned in that bit of info.

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:44 PM) You sadden me, you supposed Beatles fan. Where is Good Morning, Good Morning?!?? Along with Here Comes the Sun, and already being used, did I really have to mention them?

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:01 PM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/c...0,1558272.story That is just messed up. My first thought was they both probably shopped at WalMart as well. Then, after reading, I'm wondering if the dealer made this public to increase sales, like it did at VT. If that is the case Y'all read his comments and tell me what you think.

QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 04:19 PM) Damn Democat. Chicago Democrat, I voted ten times The cat offered me a new garbage can and threw a hell of a party, lots of pu pu, errr, you know

QUOTE(YASNY @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:47 PM) There's a damn big difference between God and religion. I never mentioned religion. Religion is man using the name of God to achieve his own agenda. Including Pat Robertson. At it's worst, you are sadly too correct. At it's best, religion can work miracles.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 08:55 PM) "Wake up Dead Man" - U2. For some real creativity, you could try finding the "It's Morning in America" ad from Reagan in 84 on Youtube and use that phrase. Thanks for the ideas so far. I'll have to find a version I can legally own. I don't think I can use a Youtube version, but I like the idea.

I need to cut together about :45 of morning wake up sounds / lyrics stuff like the alarms in Pink Floyd's Time, Good Morning Starshine, It's a beautiful morning, etc. Songs and lyrics ideas? I will be mixing with audacity. Thanks.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 04:50 PM) The thing that gets me to not really want to feel sorry for her is the $30K she had saved. She was bright enough to save it which puts here above 95% of America. We do not know what her disability was could she have been a con? If she had a good paying job that allowed her to save this much, why would the salesperson not believe she was credible enough to afford it. With the $30K any salesman is going to get you what you want. If she insisted that she could afford it and wanted it, he is going to do what it takes to get her in it or the next BMW dealer will. There are 30,000 good reasons to do whatever it takes. The bank will give her the loan as she is worth the risk. Her best bet would've been to drive it into a lake and call it stolen. When she told the salesperson her income, he would have known she would not qualify. The only way for him to make that sales was to A. Get her to write down what she believed she would be earning as soon as she was off disability and B. To then change the number even higher after she signed the contract But if you are stupid enough to go along with the salesperson, you deserve what you get.

QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 04:17 PM) Tex, she had to leave for at least a few hours to go get her $30,000 downpayment, so that alone should have been time for her to gather her wits (assuming she had any to begin with) and void the deal before any money changed hands. Unless she had it on her or keeps her life savings in her checking account, and then she is even dumber than most of us think. And I echo Southsideirish's comments above. According to the article, she drove off with the car in under two hours. Bottom line, most people believe she's stupid and an idiot, and deserves what she got. If you are stupid enough to fall for some con man's smooth pitch,

Seriously, I am so aggravated at the sales scum, I have little aggravation left for her. I seem to be the only one here who believes people can be a victim of a con and a smooth talking con man. If people always did what they knew, there would be no cons, no "morning after regrets", etc. I believe people can be led into messes like this. Someone coming off disability may have been especially vulnerable. But the "kaperbole" is waaay more fun

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 01:26 PM) sounds like a good award to me Well don't expect me to make it a habit . . .

QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 08:31 AM) I appreciate the fact that my press guy doesn't want to put his mom in a home, so I will help him however I can. He has been with me for 16 years, and despite his extensive use of foul language, he is a good guy trying to do the right thing. Now if he were unionized, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Is that more Rep-like for you? More this-Dem like

I voted with all of my email addys, for the cat

What pisses me off this this scum could have sold her a $50,000 car, but he decided to really take her for all she had and more. He decides she's a stupid idiot who will sign for a more expensive car. And everyone here thinks it's her fault for being that stupid. No way this is a well rehearsed con. And everyone calls her stupid and an idiot, but it's still her fault. I guess this scum found the perfect patsy. Just smart enough but not too smart. Because I know the folks here that rip this lady, would not do that if she was retarded. So she's just stupid enough to fall for this scums plan, but too smart to get any sympathy from anyone but me. So perhaps an IQ of >80 >100 We need to lock up stupid people, they do not deserve any protection. Do not let stupid people shop by themselves. Do not let stupid people buy anything. If they do and they get screwed, too bad, they should have known.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 03:15 PM) Whatever, unscrupulous people deserve to get nannified and ultra-protected by the system (read: government) and we un=unscrupulous folks can do whatever we want, because it'll all be ok! First step, get rid of any fraud laws, because they rely on stupid gullible people. If you get conned, you are stupid or greedy, therefore you can not be a victim. No victim, no crime. Open the prisons, we'll save a lot of money. let's go find some retarded people and take their money!

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 03:13 PM) but damn we do anything to intercept communications because terrorists have rights, too... The best way to keep the terrorists from stealing our rights is to give them up! Why can't people understand that? Innocent until proven guilty does not work, if the cops think you are guilty, you lose all rights. That's when we are really safe.

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 02:47 PM) There is no proof the dealership lied about her income. She claims she told them how much she made and that they agreed to change it together but how do we know thats true. She is desperate to give the car back so she will say anything that helps her case. She signed a contract saying she made that much so how do we know she told the salesman she didnt? The only way to prove it is if the salesman admitted it. Like I said before, nobody knows who changed the income on the second contract so how is the dealer all of a sudden committing fraud when for all we know she changed it. There would be no reason for the dealer to need to change the income if she was already approved at 6k. If youre so concerned about her why dont you contact the news outlet she used and make a donation to her? Whatever, she's stupid and stupid people deserve to get f***ed by unscrupulous companies.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 08:26 AM) Has anyone person said that the salesperson didn't do something wrong? Why is it so hard to accept, that when you do a crime, you need to deal with the consequenses? If she doesn't agree to commit fraud, none of this ever happens. Stop and think about that for a second. No matter what the salesman, financier, or anyone else did wrong, if the woman in question doesn't agree to falsify information, NONE of this happens. Which is why I pointed out there can be no victims of fraud. They all should have known, they all should not have done something. If someone doesn't hand over their social security number, the crime doesn't happen. If they don't send their bank info, none of this happens. Greed and stupidity describes everyone who is involved in a con.

What we need are more guns, 150 guns in that room would have stopped that gunman. Imagine 150 students pulling weapons and shooting that bastard. Pity the poor kid who shoots last, nothing left to hit

Has there been any mention if there was significance on it being Valentine's Day? I've only had a chance to skim a few articles.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 08:00 AM) If the price of the car itself was skewed or lied about that would make her the innocent victim of a con man. But at the end of the day, she knew the price of the car and therefore the price of her debt for the car. We would say she signed the contract, her fault. Ultimately the dealership lied about her income. Her lie wasn't good enough. But since she agreed to the first lie, she was open to whatever the dealership needed to do after that.

^^^^^^^ what he said. irs.gov has the free file. If for some reason you don't want the government to take care of you, H&R block on-line also works nicely.

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 07:30 AM) Way to nice what?? Oh, nevermind, you just $hitty speller. Stay out of the English Department Professor M. Damn evil misquoter