Texsox

QUOTE(Mplssoxfan @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 12:38 PM) It's probably too early to worry about the Supers, but since everyone else is, here's my $0.02. I assume (perhaps naively) that the majority of Supers are not a pack of fools. If Obama has a considerable lead of pledged delegates after things wash out, they will have to break for him. If Clinton has a considerable lead, they'll have to break for her. To me, this will be a test of the leadership of Howard Dean. If the delegate scenario plays out in favor of Obama, it will be Dean's job to convince Clinton to bow out gracefully. That will be the toughest thing Dean's ever done, more than likely, but it has to be done for the good of the party. If Obama has that considerable lead in pledged delegates and Clinton still takes the fight all the way to Denver and wins, then McCain will likely win in November, and Dean will be out of a job. excellent analysis

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 12:12 PM) I don't know what school of signing contracts you came from but when I have a written contract in front of me, I take the time to go through it, review the terms and rates and penalties and then put the old signature on it. I dont trust the salesman, I dont trust the company I only trust what I see in black and white and that I have a copy of. When you argue any of this in front of a judge guess how much weight will be put in what is in black and white in the contract, and how you felt that day. When I have went and purchased a car, I have asked the salesman for one number. What does it take to walk out the door with this. Not what is the cost, and then taxes, and other add ons later. I want to know, entire package what is the bottom line cost when I walk out the door. Then I ask them to present the sales contract listing that specifically, and then I peruse it and then will sign if I am happy with the terms and conditions. I am sorry that she got took. Take a quick look at the paperwork before you sign something. Caveat Emptor. Now if the contract is altered after the fact, you have your copy and you can then refute it. But if you take anyones word for it, and then sign blind then you are throwing your own money out the door. Take a few minutes to review anything you sign. Its just common sense. Now all of the heat of the moment, maybe she was depressed, maybe she was sad that day. Thats all rubbish. Is every sales associate supposed to have a shrink on staff to assess mental condition. I dont remember that being part of any credit approval process. Now as many times as I can say it. THe dealership and the sales force is at fault here. But so is the person who walked out with the expensive car. You are absolutely correct. But look at where that leads. If you go through that same thought process, then you would never be able to call anyone who falls for a con, fraud, or gets swindled a victim. Certainly it is possible to be a victim of a fraud, isn't it? And how would you react if later they changed the information? Remember her copy shows $6000 in income, their copy says $8,600. HOw would you protect yourself from that?

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 11:37 AM) Unfortunately, this is an illegal procedure and the company would have been facing a fine anyway. you can't tell someone they can't apply for something based upon your assessment. That's what the application process is about. that being said...the document by all accounts was forged and the car company should be held accountable. OK, after she is turned down, a salesperson who is not willing to commit a crime offers to sell them a less expensive car (could have paid cash), or what I mentioned. Either way a salesperson, even unethical and immoral, but not willing to commit a crime, would not have made this sale. He could have sold her a $30,000 car and just taken her cash. He could have sold her a $50,000 car and strapped her with payments and took her life savings. But this assbag went for the kill. Sorry, he's to blame way more than Miss Stupid Idiot.

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 11:56 AM) Obama's killing off superdelegates? I thought that was the Clinton's go to move?

Sadly we may be watching someone with a serious mental illness. I'm starting to think it is more than just drugs and alcohol abuse.

Just witness where we go and what we say when tragedy strikes. We are a nation of faith. It may not be all the same and we may worship different higher powers, but we do have faith. That transcends some markings on a dollar bill, actually it transcends those words even when we can read it.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 10:59 AM) He'll HAVE to do it. Otherwise, we go to a brokered convention, which is becoming a bigger possibility every day. And if that happens, we'll all annoit Queen Hillarity. There's no way a Clinton will lose a brokered convention. I think you are correct in that assumption, at best I'd give the Clinton machine a 80% chance. But Obama has been beating them odds all the way along. Maybe we're seeing something magical? Maybe a Dem version of Reagan?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 11:24 AM) As long as the government steps in to bail out the banks, everyone's happy! And as long as the victims are stupid!

Do you expect them to commit crimes as well? Sad that we would accept that.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 07:03 AM) What an asshole. Hopefully prision is good to this pathetic waste of flesh. Amen. I'll bet a few days without his Meth is going to be a lot of fun for him.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 11:09 PM) "When Chicago Ruled Baseball - The Cubs-White Sox World Series of 1906" by Bernard A. Weisberger I have to add that to my summer reading list. Thanks

BTW, I started underlining God, let the battle of the bills begin I've never heard of that before, and a few friends I told it to thought it was the funniest thing they ever heard of.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 09:53 AM) GMAFB. How many times do we have to say THE DEALERSHIP ACTED IRRESPONSIBLY, POSSIBLY CRIMINALLY, AND SHOULD ALSO BE HELD RESPONSIBLE? Here have a break

Take this step by step She reveals to the "salesperson" her income. A professional says "as much as I'd love to see you drive off the lot today in that Mercedes, until you are working, they will not approve the loan. How about you come back when you are working and we will celebrate with that new car? And would you mind if I check in on you from time to time to see how the job search is going?" Instead she's in front of someone who realizes the only way to make this sale is through fraud. Now he has to determine if she is stupid and an idiot and gullible enough to go along with his fraud. It's his lucky day! He found someone "dumb" and an "idiot"! Even better, she has $30,000 in savings he can take! It certainly is his lucky day. Later message boards will be filled with scorn for her, but very little for him. (at this point no one has any sympathy for her because she is a dumb idiot for going along with the con man's scam) Later, his hopes are dashed because $6000 won't qualify. No problem! She's stupid and an idiot and he'll just squeeze an 8 in there and a decimal in here, and viola, he'll still have the sale, and she'll still be a stupid idiot. Again, message boards will be filled with scorn for her for not having any personal responsibility but he'll get off lightly. She can't be a victim and a sympathetic figure because she's stupid and an idiot and walked into a Mercedes dealer? Cons and frauds work because people are trusting, stupid, gullible, etc. And we lock people up in prison for committing these frauds. Even when the person signs contracts, hands over cash, checks, etc. In fact, it usually isn't until they turn over valuables that a con can be convicted. Con men prey on the stupid and the idiots. This guy was a con man in a nice suit at a Mercedes dealership. She clearly knew she was going along with something that is wrong, but the con man deserves 99% of the blame in this. It comes plenty close to entrapment. If he isn't willing to defraud the loan company. she doesn't.

She was on temporary disability, which means she was recovering from something. Typically that would mean a major illness (cancer, heart attack, stroke) or accident (car accident, etc.). A very common side effect of a disability is depression. It sounds like she is getting back on her feet and close to working. Perhaps getting out of the house a little. Expecting to get her job back or similar. She wonders into a car dealership "looking". She thinks to herself, there is no harm in looking because she will not qualify for a loan. Certainly they will not let me out of here with one of these. Greedy because she was looking at the cars? Then everyone that has ever looked at something they can't afford is guilty of being greedy. Then the con begins, this was not a sale, the dealership obviously commits fraud in this transaction. The salesperson convinces her that all she has to do is state what she will be making, give him all her savings, and the car is hers. Later, the con man or stealership, inflates her income even farther. To believe that taking advantage of someone, even those dumb and stupid would make it open season on anyone who could be conned into buying something over their heads, or worthless. Hey I just sold that old lady furnace for $25,000 Woo Wooo! She has a tiny house, but I convinced here having one sized for a mansion would be better! She's stupid and an idiot!! Damn I screwed up, I should have added a $3,000 filter!! She's stupid and an idiot and deserves it. She was greedy and wanted the best furnace available. You all can think it's OK to screw someone out of their life savings as long as they are stupid and the item is expensive enough. Let's say she was stupid and an idiot. Based on this, it's her tough luck for being stupid and if anyone can take all your money, more power to them. Free season on the stupid. Nice f***ing morals America. Mourn the loss of rugged individualism? How about mourning the loss of common decency? The kind of common decency that stops a con man from taking the life savings from someone, simply because they can? Do you really want to have a society that everyone can screw anyone if they can?

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 11:03 PM) At what point is someone responsible for their own actions? I just dont see how anyone would have sympathy for some idiot who doesnt even work and leased a 100k BMW knowing EXACTLY what the payments were going to be every month. Also, how much did it say she put down, 30k? On a lease? She wasnt gonna get it back anyway She was on temporary disability, went into Autonation to look, got caught up in the excitement created by the salesperson. Agreed to use an income figure of $6000 which was her expected income after she was off disability, which the dealer later changed to $8,600 to get her the loan. She did manage to accumulate $30,000 in savings, but we don't know if that was from her job or some other means. Let's hear it for the salesperson! Found someone he could create excitement for and get the stupid idiot to take the car after cleaning out her life savings I'll bet they can't wait until the next stupid idiot walks through the door so they can pull the same stuff. Every car guy in America must have tipped a glass to that guy.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 11:24 PM) You know why we recovered from that so quickly? It's called, we wrote off our losses and went on. We don't need a bailout, or a freeze. It's not the worst thing that can happen, but it's darn close (to the worst). Why did we call it a "bail out" I thought the government stepped in?

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 04:37 PM) If the government is going to loan them money to help them out, fine. They NEED to pay that back (with interest), not a corporate welfare deal. And honestly, I still think it encourages bad borrowing policies. I agree. But if it is in our best financial interest, like the stimulus checks.

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 04:23 PM) Thats what I'm trying to get at, a bail out will only encourage more shady activity. At the time, having thousands of Savings and Loans going out of business was judged to destroy our economy. Again, Kap, SS, or Bureau may be better at answering that.

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 04:12 PM) The US auto industry is still in trouble, basically we just paid them to keep making bad decisions. I'm not really familiar with Savings and Loan deal, but hey, we got another big Loan scandal. Is it really the best way to deal with it to bail em out again? and what about next time? Chrysler was in 1979 and they paid back the loan a couple years ahead of schedule.

At first I thought it was odd we went from the stimulus checks to kids cartoons, but then again, maybe it isn't that far of a trip.

No personal responsibility

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 04:08 PM) I don't think that will happen, and if some do, that happens when a company makes poor decisions. If there is a bailout it will only serve as encouragement for more bad practices. Chrysler, Savings and Loan. Seems like it worked before.

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 04:05 PM) See, you are taking it to the extreme. If Kap is against a government bailout of bad loans, it is in no relation to a suggestion of removing the FDA. The government serves a purpose in protecting us from certain things, but not everything. If someone buys a bunch of junk on a credit card and don't pay, I sure as hell don't want to bail them out. They get bad credit, because they are a bad borrower. The borrower gets stiffed on the money they gave out because they made a bad credit decision. Having the private sector work this out is a much better solution. I think having a reasonable look at changing the loan process in the country could be useful, but those bad loans are done and the parties involved need to deal with them. fair enough

QUOTE(shipps @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 03:39 PM) I didnt see the hearings but I heard that there was a rep from Indiana that was an embarrassment.That he was pretty much the lead coordinator to the Roger Clemens fan club and was obnoxious and belligerent in scolding Mcnamee and praised Clemens as being a "titan".It seems as if this hearing went nothing like I was expecting. Post 108, Chaos gave a report on the guy.