Texsox

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 05:11 PM) I find it quite funny that someone who was so convinced that the Bradley effect is real and a phenomenon is now claiming that race is not a factor at all in the election. Difference, I believe it was spread equally across the country, just just those racists rednecks in the south. I'm consistent. What I find funny is suddenly there are only racists in the south. People that dismissed the Bradley effect are real quick to claim the only area of the country that is still racist, or at least racist enough to switch from Kerry to Obama, are four states in the South. That effect could not be spread equally across the country. The effect, btw, is people beinig polled change their answers. Well documented and accepted by every polling expert. I find several assumptions interesting. First off, no matter what Obama does during the next four years, every Dem voter will remain a Dem voter in the next election. If he does not get reelected, it must be because of race. Since Kerry = Obama and the appeal is the same, then certainly Obama = Obama in the next election. So the GOP should just forget about ever winning another election. I guess shocking of all are the racists in Illinois that did not support Braun in getting relected. Again, there couldn't be any other reason to switch.

And once again, we find Obama voters accusing *some* McCain voters of racism. That's not a problem and understood as "proven" and "fact". It's been happening for a year and continues to happen. What a shame.

This blew up a little too much. I'll leave you with this. It is unfair to assume why anyone voted the way they did. Perhaps they liked war veterans. I don't know, and will not assume the worse in someone because it fits into some world view that y'all have up north. Jumping to the conclusion that *anyone*, *anywhere*, is racist because they favor McCain over Obama, Larry Bird over Magic Johnson, or Elvis Presley over Sam Cooke is just wrong. Paint it anyway you like, but you are making an assumption about why someone voted a certain way and it shows your "regionalism" and propensity to think the worse of some southerners. And that really sucks.

Those Arby's sandwiches are pretty nice. But not on the value menu. /back to race fights in 'buster

QUOTE (shipps @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 02:33 PM) No I imagine the treasures being in caves on mysterious islands.No digging I will be to drunk for that. I want nothing to do with exploring caves. I'd rather be digging in the sand under a palm tree.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 02:57 PM) That's a much, much more broad brush to paint with than any of us have even come close to using. Especially since we have far more numerical data to back the concept we are bringing up than this silliness does. but I said some. Show me a link that proves why someone switched. You are making assumptions about a region and why they switched, Back it up with some data. I keep hearing this is proven. Why do we know so much about these voters and their racist voting patterns?

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 02:53 PM) You really aren't reading these posts, are you? I said it's a very small number of people, but a larger number reside in the south. The numbers do not lie. I would say maybe 2 percent of people who switched from Obama to McCain did it due to race, and about 5 percent in the south. It's a VERY small number, even in the south I would say 95 percent of voters who made the switch did it due to the reasons you said. You can continue to ignore my points though if you'd like, but you are better than this Texsox. The numbers don't lie. How can you say that those people switched because of race? Give me a link that proves it was race that caused them to switch?

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 02:48 PM) Well, I find the incredible strides you make to say that race still isn't a factor is more laughable. Coming from all the racist people up north that want to build a wall to keep out Mexicans*, I take that as a compliment. Because of course the only reason that some people up north support a fence being build 2,000 miles form them is because of race.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 02:34 PM) One of the big themes of this election was people wondering, "what effect will race have", now that it's over we are looking at map of a historically racist area (appalachia's through tenn-ark-okl) and see that formerly democrat voters went for republicans. What are some causes? • name rec for mccain, hard to believe after an election this covered. • media ran Obama as incumbent in press • military experience for McCain • generally lesser educated area, more susceptible to negative campaigning. • race But all in all, I think the last factor is the biggest. And NSS, I offer you another example. Have you really been missing these for the past year? It could not possibly be that Bush was an idiot and even GOP voters bailed on Bush and voted for anyone else but him, then returned to the GOP? Nope, not one person thought to mention that scenario. It couldn't be that that region, faces economic hardships and a loss of low skilled industry unlike any other area, combined with lots of competition from illegals and McCain had a stricter plan than Obama? Could it be that that region has strong ties to the mining and coal industries and Obama was much more critical? Naw, must be race.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 02:27 PM) The maps of the south/bible belt/whatever you want to call it are undeinable in showing that the majority of the "racist white" vote who jumped from Kerry to McCain due to race reasons only, reside in the south. That doesn't make Tex or any other person in the south that jumped in such a way racist, but it means that a relatively noticeable (but still small) number of those votes occured due to race. I think the south is continuing to make progress (SEE: Virginia and North Carolina vote this year), and the deep south is improving, but it still has some work to do. The whole country does, but obviously a little moreso the south. Again, NSS, these are the posts I'm talking about. And they have been going on for a year. It's undeniable that the racist white voters are the south because they switched for race reasons only. How we somehow know their reasons I do not know. But no one switched in the north and if we did, we know it wasn't because of race.

QUOTE (shipps @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 12:52 PM) I just wanna have a ship where we do alot of drinking and alot of searching for treasures that dont exist along with paranoia of mystic monsters. Aaahhhhh what a life that would be minus the scurvy. That is exactly why I want to retire to a 40' to 48' blue water sail boat. Something that could be single handed if necessary. If anyone would like to buy me this one, I'll take off now. I already have crew.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 02:16 PM) Yes, I am actually saying there are plenty of racist voters in certain parts of the South. Yes. Absolutely. Frankly I don't know why it's such a point of contention either since this is something I always thought was commonly accepted, in fact it's pretty in-your-face if you go to the wrong town. I didn't explicitly say it because I felt like I'd be saying the sky is blue. Does this apply to ALL white voters in the South that didn't vote for Obama? No. Of course not, only a percentage. The numbers don't lie and it didn't happen anywhere else in the country. And NSS, I'll use this one to show what I was saying. What was the point of this entire thread? It pointed to four southern states and asked why voters switched from voting Dem to voting GOP. The implication and connotation was obvious to lostfan and myself, I'm at a loss that you do not see it.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 02:08 PM) Tex - you don't see the difference? You just got through saying you feel you are a victim of painting with a broad brush. I was saying, one of those things is specific to persons, and the other was painting with a broad brush. The difference you say you don't see, is the difference you were trying to make yourself. I am done chasing you in circles. I'm dizzy and tired now. I guess I am not understanding your comment. How could someone bring racism into the process, then leave it out when they vote?

Two items I love McDonald double cheeseburgers $1.00 at my local McDs $1.09 Q-Taco at my local C-Store. Potato, eggs, cheese, and bean on homemade tortilla taco.

And I am trying to think of a criteria that would place Lennon ahead of McCartney in singing??

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 02:02 PM) You might get less upset if you read my full posts. I specifically said that racism HAS been mentioned. What I have NOT seen anyone say is that voting for McCain means you are racist. Those are two very different things. I do not see them as two very different things. And how can there be anything, especially racism in a race but not in the voting?

QUOTE (lostfan @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 01:48 PM) I said the historical connotation is obvious. Historical, meaning slavery, Jim Crow, white supremacist movements, racial violence, etc. many things that I thought didn't need to be mentioned which is why I chose the word "obvious" and then made a comment about refunding tax dollars because their education system failed them if they didn't know those things. The legacy of those things still lives, I'd assumed that's virtually common knowledge, so I didn't even mention it. If I'm coming off like an asshole I apologize. I do not think you are coming off as an asshole. So historically, the south has been in favor of those laws. And in this elected, support dropped from Kerry to Obama. The connotation, as I am understanding it, is white voters, in areas that historically have not been stellar examples of racial tolerance, voted along racial lines for McCain. Therefor drawing a subtle and not so subtle accusation of racism.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 01:36 PM) lol, WTF does that post have to do with "a vote for McCain is a vote for racism?" Christ. We pause for a recap: I said that white voters who switch from the Dems to the GOP in this election have been, at times, accused of being racist. NSS said that has not been the case and find one post. You said the connotation is obvious. Well if the connotation is obvious, doesn't that mean that the connotation is that some white voters have switched based on race? And if NSS is correct, and racist has never been mentioned, what is the connotation?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 01:28 PM) Yup, and I have seen no such posts. I have seen a LOT of posts talking about the fact that some people were going to vote for Obama because he's black, and some others would vote for McCain because he's not. But I have seen no one make the absurd statement in here that a vote for McCain is automatically racist. QUOTE (lostfan @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 01:30 PM) I would kindly ask them to do one of 2 things in that case 1. explain what they mean by that or 2. promptly refund all of the tax dollars spent on their obviously failed education.

As a pure singer, I can't imagine Karen Carpenter being so low. If you are going to have her on a "rock" list, then she is too low. I would be morer willing to accept her not being on the list because she is "pop" not rock. And did I miss Carol King?

QUOTE (lostfan @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 12:54 PM) where the historical connotations are pretty obvious. Some don't believe there has been any connotations. But setting that aside. If I was living in one of those states I would be painted with that same brush and that just isn't fair.

Should all protests at Churches be treated nationally? Are we interested in all protests nationally? My God, to listen to some here the daily newspaper would be 10,000 pages long and cover every damn story from coast to coast.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 12:47 PM) The posts aren't about you, they're pretty obviously about other people (and nobody even says it in that many words, either). I think it requires a massive leap of logic to assume that people, who otherwise know you relatively well, are calling you a racist. It's always "other people" but I am trying to put a face on other people. I'm a white male who switched from Kerry to McCain. Sounds like the group they are talking about.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 12:45 PM) I haven't seen one single post inferring that any vote for McCain is because that voter is racist. Not one. Show me. Seriously, have you been reading for the past year?

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Nov 18, 2008 -> 12:43 PM) you're going to need a more robust ship than the 'S.S No Fatties' if you plan on doing any note worthy plundering.