Texsox

Captain

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 15, 2008 -> 09:23 PM) I understand what you are saying Tex, I just disagree with it. I understand the perception, but my reality is different. I have a problem with fraternities that haze. My fraternity doesn't haze. So, what I can control (what my fraternity does), I do control. And on Mizzou's campus, you'd be surprised when talking about what houses are looked down upon. For instance, the two times of the year when the big blood drives, can drives and collective service projects are done is during our Homecoming and Greek Week. Houses that do nothing but party and don't contribute are not attractive partners to be paired with. And some of those houses are slowly dying out, while some just have too large of alumni base to go for a while. For instance, my fraternity sets a goal to get our members to get involved in campus organizations, and move into leadership positions in those. We use the people that have been in these organizations from our house to alert everyone when applications are due, tips for their interviews, letters of recommendations. And in turn, besides the individual benefit to the members in getting in leadership positions, provides great P.R. for our house and helps network us with more recruits. Houses that do nothing but party are there, and they will be there. But they are laughed at. Not looked down upon, but not really taken seriously. So it sucks that there are fraternities that haze physically and mentally. But there are many houses that don't, and in not are inherently trying to combat that behavior. These same houses are also forming organizations for rape awareness and Gamma (greeks advocating something management of alcohol) to educate about alcohol abuse, and are fighting the very stereotypes you are presenting. So I just resent your notion that we are enabling these poorer houses by being in the system. We are actively trying to move the system away from that. However, it doesn't have to be extreme. Because they are solely focused on drinking and the like does not mean we then have to advocate a dry house and no drinking in greek town. We can have the same social experience that every other college student who chooses to is having, without the stereotypes. And maybe unsurprisingly, it is hard to spread word through the media about THESE groups and projects, because that is seen as propoganda and misleading people from the real truth, that we are all womanizing drunks paying for friends. You are highlighting exactly what I've been saying, albeit I must not be saying it very well. The pendulum is swinging and needs to continue. Sadly those houses that are dragging behind, like you mentioned, are hurting those that are leading the way, like your Fraternity. It's a tough system, and Fraternities will face some difficult recruiting as the parents of tomorrow, that were on campus in the 80s and 90s, when too many Fraternities were out of control, will direct their children away from Greek Society. And appreciate the view that organizations like GAMMA (mature is what you were looking for) are in response to abuses by your predecessors. The value for the college community is the resources that Fraternities bring can benefit the campus as a whole with these programs. Again, the types of positive programs that need to be a told as a bigger part of the Fraternity story.

Log Lady

QUOTE (dasox24 @ Sep 15, 2008 -> 08:28 PM) As a current member of a fraternity, I must say that, yes, the social side of things is definitely talked about more. And that's probably b/c we throw some ridiculous parties that people couldn't do if they weren't in a fraternity. For instance, my fraternity has the Ying Yang Twins playing for us the night before the UT-Alabama game, and we've already sold like 500 tickets (more than a month in advance). We should have about 2,000 people there, which will make for one awesome night. However, I hate the notion that "frat guys" just buy their way out of community service and whatnot. That's just not true. Actually, I'm planning on spending my Friday afternoon at the Boys & Girls Club of Knoxville to do some volunteer work. As for grades, I have a 3.5 through my 1st two years (not great, but pretty good) and I actually think if I weren't involved heavily in my fraternity (and other organizations) that I would probably have lower grades, and quite frankly, look less attractive to employers (though that's not even remotely close to the reason I joined a fraternity, I've learned that it's true). There's definitely some bad fraternities that don't do anything good for society, but I hate when they all get grouped together. At least at UT, the average all Greek GPA is higher than the non-greek GPA, which is a testament to the Greek System here. So, not only do we make better grades as a whole, we also provide a lot more community service than the average non-greek student. Granted, it's not a lot of community service (only required to do 6 hours/semester), but it's better than nothing. And even if most guys aren't doing it for the right reasons (b/c they're forced to), at least they're out there making a difference with underprivileged kids, etc. Again, I don't want to leave the impression I am anti-Greek. I can list a whole lot of good from Fraternities. Most have been mentioned here. IMHO things swung too far away from the stated Mission Statements and now are swinging back (again IMHO) in a better direction. But y'all are kidding yourself that some fraternities don't pride themselves on throwing the biggest parties, more so then the biggest service projects. So call me wrong, but I think (even) less partying, more positive programs, equals glory days returning for Greeks on campus and the possible end to the portrayal of frat guys as drunk perverts. Again I ask you guys in fraternities, when was the last time you debated who has the better fraternity based on parties and when was the last time you debated who did more for the community or who got better grades? That's some of the reason the negative stereotypes exist. And I understand the marketing and the competition for the best members around campus. You have to attract them with something, so the best house or best parties sell better then the most service hours or working for the best grades. It's a tough battle y'all face on campus.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Aug 28, 2008 -> 10:19 AM) Wish it were true, I imagine the Trib is already preparing an offer. QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Sep 12, 2008 -> 08:12 AM) Mariotti to the Tribune a matter of when, not If, per Deadspin announcement supposed to come Monday You know just sayin' Hmm, conservative Trib w/ Jay liberal Sun Times w/o Jay. Some of you GOP types have a tough choice.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 15, 2008 -> 02:40 PM) But you can attribute these things to the societal expectations of college in general. In a small area, you are packing in tens of thousands of 18-22 year old students with little responsibilities and hormones raging. Go to a football game tailgate and pick out the responsible ones. And if you are asking people to brag about their community service, I think you'd be finding someone that does it for the wrong reasons. I certainly don't brag about my community service, funny anecdotes that happen I'll tell my family and friends, but I don't wear it as a badge of honor. I see it as a chance to use my privilege in productive ways, as do most around me. I think college students getting together and exchanging drinking stories just is what we do. We go to boring classes, and a lot of college students to explore themselves socially and blow off steam go out to the bars and meet people and act irresponsibly. I've had very funny stories happen to me at the bars. I think you have to, if I remember the fight thread. I don't think these stories should be defining outlooks on a persons character, any more than an obscene joke a remark on a persons moral code. In essence, I see you take pot shots at fraternities too much. The system has it's problems, but moreso due to corrupt people than a corrupt program. The greek system might have in fact put some positive influences in an otherwise unruly person, where without he would have been the same without these influences. For instance, I know many eagle scouts. Some of them are in jail right now. But the one whom I grew up with and has me in awe of the program is the one who in his junior year of college with a good job that was going to get him salary-position as soon as he graduated, promptly joined the marines because he felt a sense of duty of service. That's a testament to the people and lessons he met as an eagle scout. So perhaps those of us that are making a positive affect on the community around us, the many many thousands of us, through our fraternities and sororities could start sticking in your mind more than the tales of immaturity that you've used to condemn the system. I do not believe pointing to documented cases of hazing, and stating that when the pendulum swings to where community service is valued higher than parties, will be a giant step forward for Greek society is a "pot shot". Your point about bragging about community service is a very good one. But how is bragging about how wasted you got last weekend, or how some chick was so wasted she did three guys, better? Perhaps that we found a reason to dismiss talk about community service and defended talk about partying, an indication of the relative coolness of each topic to college students in general? And again, I am not anti Greek. I am anti ritualistic traditions and requirements that place youth who are under tremendous peer pressure to do humiliating and potentially dangerous acts as part of their initiation. The fact that these abuses have been admitted and Universities have seen fit to enact rules against them, makes me believe the allegations are true. Again, voluntary vs. forced. And I understand that members voluntarily allow this to happen to themselves, but should a University allow these acts to happen to their students via authorized and approved University organizations? I'm in favor of less partying and more service. If that's pot shots. OK, I will accept that.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Sep 15, 2008 -> 06:27 PM) Its basically running a business, managing people, governing yourselves, learning to cope with different kinds of people etc. Im not the type to claim I made the life long bonds from it, but it was an experience in my life I would never give back or trade anything for. Great points.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Sep 15, 2008 -> 01:19 PM) It's one thing to edit out some questions to fit time/space. When you edit the given answers so as to change the meaning of the answer, that is wrong. It is absolutely wrong. Why that error occurred is open to interpretation. Our bias will dictate our conclusion. I will call it incompetence until shown otherwise, you will term it liberal bias or incompetence, based on which political ideology comes out looking better. We agree it is wrong, we differ on the origins.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Sep 15, 2008 -> 12:29 PM) Corn Can

Alpha allow me an example of why you will always see bias. Imagine a press conference where someone covers twenty topics. The transcript will fill four pages. The story is allotted one. If the reporter tries to briefly capture all twenty, you will find a missing fact and show bias. If he chooses ten, you will look over the omitted topics and show bias. Doesn't matter if the reporter picked the ten most important or popular stories, you will find bias. If the reporter picked five positive and five negative you will point to a more important topic that was positive for the Republican and a negative topic and show bias. As soon as a reporter pares down the story, you have "proof". So you win. I bow to your irrefutable proof and lay down my pen

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 15, 2008 -> 01:20 PM) I could have swore that they at least made him a much bigger offer than that, an offer that at the time was described as the biggest contract offer the White Sox had ever made. It wasn't the same he got from Detroit as a ton of the money was deferred out over like 20 years, but I could have swore there was more than 4/$48 on the table when he got hurt. we are all so old and feeble of mind. IIRC the Sox did make a very generous offer (by WS standards) and many here thought it was too much money. IIRC Maggs thought he could get more years and it appeared he had already made up his mind to test the waters when he was injured. I thnk the Sox did their best and acted prudently.

Let's do an experiment and see if it helps . . . Here lies the 2008 White Sox, they fought the good battle and gave all they had, but in the end, their injuries were just too great

2008 ~ These Guys Are Hurt!

Iowa

You write so much and I cannot respond to it all.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 15, 2008 -> 10:34 AM) They made him an offer of 4/$48m (IIRC) post injury. Once he turned that down, they pulled it off of the table. After the lies started, they didn't really negotiate anymore. That was a pretty poor negotiation, at least what was reported.

QUOTE (knightni @ Sep 13, 2008 -> 12:57 AM) What year was it? I'm thinking around 1995.

Jordan

I never had a problem with this whole drafting by sperm and egg donors.

QUOTE (SoxFanForever @ Sep 15, 2008 -> 11:07 AM) So the passengers can't use their phones either? I think he's thinking more the driver.

And of course there is bias in the media. There are the biases from the person who is being reported on, the reporter, the editor, the page designer, and the reader. Of all those, the reader arguable has the greatest bias and no ethical considerations to remove it. Not to pick on by buddy Alpha but I will, we all know his pet peeve (bias) is the placement, or omission, of party affiliation. That will determine, in part, how he feels about the article's authenticity and accuracy. When all of the biases line up no bias is detected. That is why liberals see the conservative bias in the media and conservatives see the liberal bias. If you gather up the million of articles that will be written this year, you will find subtle and not so subtle bias for and against each party. It is impossible to write every article neutral. Edwards gets caught with a mistress and a baby, no way that can't be a negative article, and it would be terribly wrong to try and find a negative GOP article to provide "balance". It is what it is. No need to list every REP who fathered a baby out of wedlock and silly to find some historical article and measure the column inches. If readers are interested, report more, if they are not, report less. The danger as I see it is when we remove the watchdogs. Either by force or benign neglect. The public has been well served for over 200 years by our media.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 15, 2008 -> 10:41 AM) Its just flawed logic. Are the bolded statements a product of them being in a fraternity or being young in college? Do you remember these statements more because it reaffirms your shallow generalizations of fraternity members as opposed to just a college kid saying it? My guess is probably. Because in the arguments that have happened in this board over this subject, you have had many fraternity members here talk about their community service and grades, so there is no way it would be a first. I'm in a fraternity and am young and in college. I put in many hours of community service that go far beyond any "required" hours we have, and many of my brothers are right there with me. I have great grades. I'm politically active. I'm active in the community. The community knows the potential the greek system has here and actively comes to us for help, which is then obliged by ours. But this doesn't mean I don't get to have the same social exploration of any other college student just because it would feed into your shallow stereotype. Both. But from what I've seen and heard, the fraternity system encourages and in some cases required "exploration" beyond responsible levels. Forced consumption of alcohol for example. I don't believe we need to examine news stories of hazing? That sort of ritualized behavior goes beyond what would occur for non Greek students. The excesses of the past, which has led to deaths and University policies and laws against these behaviors are in part because members did not acknowledge any problems in the 70s, and 80s. As the behaviors continued to escalate, Fraternities and to a lesser extend Sororities, were given a huge black eye. I have spent time on three University campuses with both large and small Greek Societies, and perhaps on your campus fraternity members brag about the people they helped, but I've heard a lot more party tales. No doubt there is a larger social value in Greek Society. Both inward and outward for the members. As I posted before, the pendulum is swinging, as witnessed by what you wrote, and that is a good sign for everyone.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 15, 2008 -> 10:26 AM) The crazy thing is that the Sox offered him more guaranteed money. Wasn't the Sox offer before the injury? I thought the Sox position post injury and surgery was no examination, no offer. Which seemed prudent to me. Anyway, as it turned out, I'd rather have JD than Maggs. I am not delusional (on this lol), I know Maggs is the better player, but I think character counts and I'll take someone like Dye any day.

friend

QUOTE (DABearSoX @ Sep 15, 2008 -> 11:12 AM) I don't get it...was this engineer 18 or something...or these kids just really liked trains? I mean they text with the guy? That seemed a little strange.