JUGGERNAUT

If the White Sox played in the AAAA league known as the NL. I doubt he puts up those numbers in the AL.

Uribe's deceptive stats: R,RBI 2004 Pre-AS 302AB 51R, 37RBI 2004 Pos-AS 200AB 31R, 37RBI 2005 Pre-AS 240AB 26R, 38RBI 2005 Pos-AS 32AB 2R, 8RBI His 2004 June & July numbers are worse than his 2005. In 2004 he really rebounded in Aug & Sep so there's reason to believe he can do it again in 2005. But here's the thing: In 2004 the bulk of his AB's were 2nd in the lineup: 260AB .285A/.846OPS Why not shake up the lineup? 1-SPods 2-Uribe 3-Iguchi 4-Dye 5-Konerko 6-Rowand 7-Everett/Thomas 8-AJ 9-Crede If you're worried he'll bring down SPods look at this: 2005 RON 105AB .286A/.732OPS

I remain unconvinced that SFG is going to deal any major player. The globe reported that they've had scouts tailing the Red Sox since the all-star break but I that's because they have a strong pen & the Red Sox appear desperate. It makes sense if you're out of it but I expect to contend in 2006 to deal from your pen because that's the easiest to upgrade in the off-season. There are always quality arms for the pen available.

If Billy Wagner proves to be the difference maker in the WS you can bet your last dollar he will NOT be a rent-a-player for the WSox. He will be here to stay. This move can not only solidify the pen for this year's run, but with the most important position players expected back in 2006 it sets us up to win it next year as well. That's the kind of move you overpay for & make no mistake about it BMac + Marte is overpaying. But that's the way it works this time of the year. You acquire Wagner not only to help yourself but to play keep away from others. I don't care how electric Burnett's stuff is. If he's proven to be wild & inconsistent after over 100 starts under his belt there isn't much hope for improvement.

No. There is a BIG difference. The religious zealots in the GOP don't give a crap about liberty or freedom. They have an ideological sense of good & evil (sin) & they seek to legislate that into law playing on the fears & anxieties of average Americans. The Democrats can be more religious so as to EXPAND liberty & freedom. School vouchers & prayer initiatives are SAFE issues that can start to pare away the religious voters from the GOP. They can likewise link that liberty & freedom to what some in the GOP would call evil media & entertainment. Thus you appease both groups. With more support they might then be heard when they talk about how global trade practices hurt America. Which in my opinion is the MOST important issue facing America today.

This post is extremely dense. Do you have any idea what this thread is about? Obviously not. I can sit here & debate you endlessly with fact after fact suggesting the founders did understand the importance of religious freedom in this nation but that would be ignorant of the point of the thread. This thread is NOT about your narrow-minded ideological view. It's about what is & what is NOT a losing cause for a major political party & the impact that cause has had to undermine the important traditional beliefs of that party. That is why they are to blame. The point of the thread is that the more the Democrats marginalize their party around this single losing cause the weaker their voice becomes on all causes. That's why they are to blame. The Republicans are steadfast in support of their traditional free-market profit based viewpoints. You would expect them to pounce on the Democrats by exploiting their losing cause. you don't blame a party that is simply living up to expectations.

Options are inherited from minor league contracts so free agents who have never signed a minor league contract are not eligible. The option is associated with the player & not the team.

I would delete this utterly useless, non-intelligent, & utter-wise stupid beyond belief post if I could. But SOXTALK doesn't give thread authors editorial control. quote: winodj You're kind of thinking is what has marginalized the Democratic party which is the whole point of my thread. I emphatically disagree with your views on religion & the role government should play in it. But that is not the point either. The point is the strategy doesn't work & it's never going to work. And only in your warped mind does a form of censorhip equal protecting freedom. As for the pandering to the rich what have Democrats said about the mega mergers of the past 20 yrs which include two terms under Clinton & terms in which the Dems were in control that has led to the displacement of millions of America jobs? What have the Democrats said about a retailer who made it's way in the retail sector by emphasizing "made in America" but now can barely find shelf space for such products? What have the Democrats said about tax policies that allow for American companies to setup show overseas & then "exchange" workers & job descriptions to undercut wages in America? What's the point of arguing that the minimum wage needs to be increased when you're not willing to lift a finger to protect American jobs? Tax cuts for the rich? What a crock of crap! In the time that Bush's so called tax cut has been in place just look at the rise of other taxes & fee hikes. One has just been offset by the others. And the Democrats are to be blamed because these were the core principles of the party until wackjobs took it over. See the quote above. Dumber than a box of rocks.

If Stark said that he's full of s***. I've read both FL papers on-line today & they all are saying BMac + Marte. The only reason why Florida has changed tune & made the White Sox the front runner is because they are high on Marte. Not just because of his performance but also his contract. Marte is likewise a pc few others can come up with. In addition Lowell is getting hot again so the Marlins are cooling on the idea of trading him.

Forget about it. Crede = Pitching. Period. Every starter, the GM, the Mgr, AJ on this team has said as much. We saw what happened when Ozuna was there. Swapping Crede for Tracy right now would be a bad move. The last thing you want to do is disupt the confidence in your rotation & pen & this move is sure to do that. It's not a question of whether Tracy is as good as Crede. It's a question of experience. Make that trade & if Tracy has an error in his first game questions pop into the minds of the pitchers. These are not guys who believe in numbers. They are guys who believe in experience. Crede is a proven glove for them. They look at Thurs game as a rare exception for him.

He has no options. That's why he was designated for assignment. It's up to Shingo if he's not traded. He can accept assignment to Charlotte & keep his pay or he can opt for FA & lose his pay. The only way he avoids Charlotte & keeps his pay is if the WSox choose to simply release him. My guess is that he will opt for Charlotte. Why? Because then he can be called up in Sept when the roster expands.

I likewise want to add that Griffey would become the White Sox 2nd best defensive OFer. Just look at the numbers. Pods is nothing special as an OF & Griffey has more range than Dye. So I'm not afraid to play him in LF in place of Pods on days you want them both in the lineup. Nor am I afraid of playing him in RF in place fo Dye on days you want them both in the lineup. And please stop putting Everett on a pedastal. He came up with clutch hits in April, was a sad sack in May, contributed greatly with Frank in June, & has returned to being a sad sack in July. What does that spell? An inconsistent run producer. Sag's has him as 38th best bench player in the AL. B-38 Everett, Carl CHW B 4.61RPG, 32R 70H 14HR 56RBI 125TB 272AB Everett vs LHer: .325A/.500S. Everett vs RHer: .229A/.732OPS His numbers are deserving of that of a 5th OFer/3rd DH option.

Immediately, Griffey replaces Thomas at DH. Timo is gone. When/if Thomas returns Gload is next to go. Thomas is not going to return in anything more than a platoon role at DH. With Griffey Everett assumes Timo's role as a 5th OFer bench player behind Griffey.

Would you stop thinking of Griffey long term at CF? That's as realistic as Piazza playing C in the AL. Please look at this realistically. The $: There is no buyer out there (incl NYY) that is willing to not only pay for Griffey's remaining yrs on his contract but also the deferred $ the Reds owe him. So we can assume the Reds will pick up that part of the contract the Reds already owe him. That means a buyer for Griffey is picking up 3 yrs at $12.5M ($6M defer w/out interest until 2009 & payed out to 2025), & 1 option at $16.5M ($6M defer) & $4M buyout in 2009. So let's just simplify it down to a miminum cost for Griffey: The deferred $ equates to $18M/16yr or about $1.5M/yr w interest. So he will cost $22M/3yr + $1.5M/yr for 16 yrs thereafter. What that buys you is arguably the best combination of DH/OF sub of any team in this post-season this year & one of the best combination of 1B + DH/OF sub of any team in the AL over the next 3 yrs. All for a price that will be less than signing Konerko to a 4 yr deal. Let me repeat this: Griffey will NOT displace Rowand or any one in the OF. Griffey is not expected to be a starting OF in the near future. Those days are over. He has admitted as much himself. What that means for an AL team is the likelihood of Griffey remaining healthy more than doubles. I am confident that Griffey can play 1B as good as Koney can. The White Sox will have a full ST to groom him for the position. He is ideally suited for an Ozzie like team because Ozzie is not afraid to play a guy at more than one position.

I do not like the direction the wheels are turning under GOP leadership of America. And I blame the Democrats. Apparently homeland security is not as much about protecting American's from the threat of explosive terrorists as it is about protecting America from the "so-called" evils of society. When I hear O'Reilly suggest that a child molester should get no less than 25 yrs for a first offense I shake my head. Yes I am religious & yes I feel such an act is heinous & evil but I am not nieve like O'Reily to suggest that every offense is a legitimate one & that such a subjectively driven concept is wrought with potential for abuse. Why do I keep reading about homeland security being considered with porn, kiddy-porn, drugs, video games, night clubs, strip joints, internet porn sites, raising taxes through "security fees", & basically other "so-called" social ills in America? Why am I not reading about their efforts in tracking & prevention of explosive terrorist acts both abroad & overseas? Do you see where this is leading? Why do I keep thinking "witch hunt" when I read about how homeland security & the FBI are doing their best to thwart media piracy & porn? What does that have to do with combating religiously minded explosive terrorists that feel binge drinking is a mortal sin? How many criminal cases in America would be iron-clad? Meaning the evidence was so overwhelming that there was no reasonable shadow of doubt? Very few. Yet here is O'Reilly advocating that a first offense child molester should receive no less than 25 yrs. What's next? Will O'Reilly's version of homeland security start arresting Americans & locking them up for no less than 10 yrs simply because they have pornographic images of people that look underage? So who do I blame? Democrats. They spent more time, effort, & resources defending atheism in this country than they have jobs or liberty. The two party system worked in America because the Republicans were devoted to the rich & wealthy & the Democrats were devoted to the unions & the common man. That's the tradition behind the two parties. Yet in the midst of civil rights in defense of blacks during the Korean & Vietnam wars that tradition has been replaced with Democrats being devoted to furthering the cause of atheism & Republicans devoted to furthering the cause of Biblically inspired faiths. While this battle has waged now for more than 50 yrs the Democrats have evolved to were they too are now devoted to the rich & wealthy. There is no party with any hope of gaining strength that supports the unions & common man any more. My challenge to Democrats is to abandon your crusade of atheism, stand as a voice of liberty while embracing God, & get turn your devotion back to the unions & the common man. No one thinks of atheism as being progressive any more. Even the Chinese are embracing religion so long as they can control. Spiritually/religious driven people in the world are rising in numbers. They make up the bulk of new immigrants in America. Atheism is a dying cause. Stop calling people stupid or insinuating people are dumb because they are loyal to a faith you have no capacity to understand. Not just in it's dogma but also in terms of what it means to their everyday lifes. Dump atheism & embrace liberty. Liberty means the government shouldn't give a rat's ass about what serves as entertainment for the average American. Period. The government has an obligation of defining what is considered as unreasonable & punishable by law in as narrow a vision as possible so as to not curtail liberty. There is nothing to be gained by clinging to atheism accept more lost seats in the House & growing weaker in the Senate. If you were to start vocally supporting school vouchers & school prayer initiatives do you really think atheists would start voting republican? So you are essentially pissing off 10's of millions of voters to appease a few million that are going to vote for you anyways. Stupid. If Americans could start thinking of Democrats a party that likes God & religion again then maybe the important ideals like unions, worker benefits, subsidies, regulation, re-vamping anti-trust laws, & the multitude of other economic problems facing our nation could be debated again. Maybe the Democrats would forgo their ties to the rich & wealthy to once again support the economic viability of unions & the common man. It's just a thought.

From the various rumor pages at prosportsdaily.com: A source close to Burnett indicated he would not sign with the White Sox He is seeking a Pavano ($40M/4) like contract as a FA. Burnett as a rent-a-player would cost about $1.3M by the deadline. If the White Sox were to trade Marte they'd look to Embree, Kline or Villone to fill that void. Guillen: “El Duque was outstanding. I think that was the best I have seen him in a long time." My 2 cents: I do not like this trade if it ends at Burnett. Career-wise he is 43-44 & just 6-6 w a 3.65 ERA since he returned from elbow surgery. Would you trade BMac & Marte to a NL team to secure fireballing Wagner for the playoffs? I would. When it's all said it done it will have cost you about $3M to upgrade your bullpen to the best in MLB. The Phillies are on record as saying they would trade Wagner for Burnett. With Thomas down, we need a clutch hitting bat in the middle of the lineup Everett (1/19) over this homestand (< .260 now). Konerko (7/52) in 2005 with RISP, 2 outs. The White Sox are 13-15 vs contenders in the AL. Ken Griffey Jr: RON (runners on), RISP (runners in scoring position) splits 2005 RON 2B: 4/22 (788OPS). RON 3B: 6/14 (1386 OPS). RON, 1&2:9/35 (811 OPS). RON 1&3: 2/11 (690OPS). RON 2&3: 1/3 (1933 OPS). RON BL: 3/7 (1000OPS) RON 1: 24/69 (959OPS). RON 2out: 19/62 (1072OPS). Close & Late: 10/41 (1068OPS). RON overall: 49/161 (304A, 383O, 559S, 942OPS). RISP overall: 25/92 (272A, 366O, 565S, 931OPS). RISP, 2 out: 13/39 (333A, 458O, 795S, 1253OPS). This is as much of a no-brainer as you'll ever see. Stop thinking KGJ HAS to play CF. I don't want to hear about what a sup-bar OF he is or how he can't play the corners. He can play them as good as Pods, Everett, Timo, & any other sub we have right now. Is Pods a better sub for Rowand in CF than Griffey? Hell No! Pods is an average LF at best. He does not have good instincts as an OFer. There is an immediate hole to fill right now (DH) that Griffey can step in & assume. When/if Thomas returns it will be with no better status than before. He'll still need someone to platoon with him. I would take Griffey over Everett in a heartbeat in that role. Everett looks to be running out of gas .. again. As for the future this is pretty simple: Griffey at 1B. Griffey has always been considered to be one of the best glove men in the game. It goes w/out saying he can sub for Rowand in CF any given year his ideal position that will keep him the healthiest is 1B/DH. Would he accept the role? I think so. His recent comments this year pertaining to his health seem to suggest he knows his playing days in CF are coming to an end. There is no question in my mind that he can be as good a 1B as Konerko & grooming him as such in ST 2006 is the best case scenario for the White Sox. With Thomas becoming a bigger ? mark this season his price is plummeting. JR is now likely to be able to re-negotiate a better deal than the last one with Thomas. A lot better. Griffey & Thomas will solidify 1B&DH for the remainder of Griffey's contract. More importantly Griffey can sub for any OF position which makes him a versatile player. As for Vizquel, I'm beginning to think this is a WSox fan's dream & nothing more. I've not read one rumor any where that remotely indicates the Giant's GM entertaining offers for Vizquel.

The question is how much do you want to win a World Series? If it takes Burnett to get Wagner before the deadline then use BMac & not Contreras to get Burnett. Maybe BMac is the next great thing, but he's not going to be that THIS YEAR! With Wagner, everybody drops down which makes the pen that much stronger. On paper at least it looks like a 5 inning game in the post season. Even in 2000 we held leads in the post season vs Seattle before it fell apart in each game.

You've got the contract wrong. Griffey 2001-2008 $12.5M ($6.5M deferred w 0 interest until 2009). Griffey 2009 : team option $4M buyout OR $16.5M ($6.5M deferred w int). The deferred payment period is 2009-2025. You have to understand the Giants are not in a position to where they have to sell. With Bonds being the meal ticket, the seats are sold for 2005 & with him being on the menu in 2006 they will have no trouble selling seats next year. From the Giants perspective making a trade is all about making the team that much better in 2006. So young talent is not what they are after. If you check out the Giants rumor pages it sure seems like they are waiting for the Rangers to make them an offer. They seem to be locking in on Soriano to replace Durham at 2B. They look at the potential of Soriano - Bonds - Alou in 2006 & feel that $10.5M on Schmidt is not a bad deal. Of course that's only if they can get Soriano. We don't have anything like Soriano that they need so the only trades will be doing with them are minor. If you are interested in these players: Brett Tomko, Kirk Rueter, J.T. Snow, Ray Durham and Edgardo Alfonzo & your not the GM of the Rangers the Giants are taking your calls.

People get confused about Aug 1st & what it means by a player must clear waivers. So let's set the record straight: What is a MLB waiver? A permission granted for certain assignments of player contracts or for the unconditional release of a Major League player. What does it mean to clear waivers? The player has not been claimed by another team after 3 business days." What can a team do once a player clears waivers? Send him to the minors, release him (consent req'd for vets), or trade him. How do teams trade past the Jul 31st deadline? Though all players must clear waivers the team seeking to trade a player has the right to withdraw the player from waivers. It's that right of refusal that still allows trades to happen past the deadline. The GM network in MLB rarely thwarts a trade after Jul 31st. Most GM's know what's going down between teams & you can get a bad rep real quick if you gummy up the works. Likewise GM's know which teams are essentially dumping contracts. These are the teams least likely to challenge a waiver claim from an outsider (a team they did not intend to trade with) because they are more interested in dumping the contract then gettng talent value back. In these cases the seller usually works out a trade with the buyer. When it comes to trades after the Jul 31st deadline having the best record in MLB is a curse. It hurst far more than it helps. Teams rarely put a guy on waivers & they withdraw him to avoid another team. What happens instead is that the selling team negotiates before that time with the teams interested in their player. The weaker team (record-wise) gets the nod over the stronger team. Ex. Let's say Philly finally throws in the towel 2nd week of Aug & decides it wants to sell Wagner. The for sale sign will go out to the other GM's & they will contact Philly to buy Wagner. Philly is under no obligation to sell to a team with a weaker record than the White Sox. But they are more likely to listen to those teams before the White Sox. If they can't come to terms with those other teams they will essentially seek an ok from the other GM's to go ahead & allow the trade between Philly & the White Sox. One way of looking at the trade deadline when your team does have the best record in possible is that after July 31st, the seller has to seek permission from all other GM's to sell to you. Philly's 5GB of the NLE & NLWC. They've won 6/10. The deadline is 9 days away. Atl 5/5 riding a 1W streak. Next 9 (ARI, WAS, PIT) Was 2/10 riding a 2L streak. Next 9 ( HOU, ATL, FLM) Mets 6/10 riding a 4W streak. Next 10 (LAD, COL, HOU) Hou 7/10 riding a 5W streak. Next 10 (WAS, PHI, NYM) Phil 6/10 riding a 2L streak. Next 10 (SDP, HOU, COL) If Philly loses the next 3 series that will probably make them sellers & give KW a chance to get Wagner before the deadline. Go Pads, Stros, & Rocks!

It seems like most contenders are waiting on Philly to deal Wagner. JR has said $ is no object. Competition wise KW has the chips to out-deal the rest. It's just a matter of the Philly's pulling the plug on their season. On the Griffey watch there were two columns out of Cincy that seem to increase the odds a little: Griffey: "Nobody's mentioned anything to me. Not one word." 2005 is the deepest Griffey has played for the Reds since 2000. Contract: thru 2008 at $12.5M/yr w $6.5M deferred w/out interest until 2009. The final yr of the contract (2009) is an option yr at $16.5M ($6.5M deferred w interest) or a $4M buyout. Though the NYY & CWS have been rumored as buyers there have been no reports of talks between them & the Reds. So what opened the door? Griffey: "You've got to look at it from the Reds' situation. If they want to make a deal, they're going to make a deal, and I've got to agree to it." Reporters wrote later that day that Griffey would be open to being dealt to the right team. Though KGJ took a sizeable pay cut to play for his Father's team his off-season home is in Orlando, FL. He grew up in Cincy while his Fr was playing for the Reds & owns a home there.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/reds...gh_town/?page=3 Shoeless Joe Jackson testified to receiving $5K. BUT he did not want the $ & his life was threatened to take it. Furthermore SJJ & Weaver both wanted to blow the whistle on the whole thing but gave us after Comiskey didn't want to hear it & their lives were threatened. As for SJJ's vs Cinn in the WS he .375A. The only player to hit a HR in the series. He had 6 RBI's & was flawless in the outfield.

Griffey's contract for those who don't know: $6M/yr from 2005-2009. $58M deferred after 2009. Interest does not accrue on the $58M until after 2009. One of the best deals ever considering his stature at the time. I don't know how to entice him to Chicago but he is the answer to our biggest weakness (we can't hit good RH arms). We are getting little from the DH dept in that area. (Thomas < .200A, Everett < .240). Thomas HR's have masked that weakness for the last month. But it's starting to become more evident now. I would not hesitate to start Griffey over Rowand in CF in the post-season. That's taking nothing away from Aaron but he simply is not Griffey.

Ozzie is steering the trade dept ship: For those believing we need to acquire a solid bat vs RHers, a starting pitcher, or a solid closer Ozzie doesn't agree. Right now the only serious target the White Sox have is Toronto's Batista whose contract is only $5M/2006. And that's only because of Hermy's back spasms. They do not like Eddie G (health issues, they remain unconvinced) & they do not believe Philly will part with Wagner & Hou will part with Lidge. That makes perfect sense because both teams are still very much in the NLWC race. Only Cub fans believe the Cub are ready to emerge as a 2005 version of the Astros. There are 4 teams showing interest in Takatsu (thereby picking up the $1M left on his contract) : AZD, TBD, BOS, & SFG. Williams: "No one in the American League wants to help us. That's become very evident." Translation: The Blue Jays are not trading Lilly. Which is evidenced by the fact that neither the Nats or WSox had scouts at his last start. Burnett has given up 10R/11IP. Maybe Kotek Boy things he's the next best thing since Pedro but for those of us who think of the NL as AAAA I'll take Contra over Burnett. Contra is just as much a hard thrower as Burnett. He's just a little more inconsistent. Both are very vulnerable to failing with pitches & leaving heaters over the plate. Both are vulnerable to the long ball. Kotek boy believes that Burnett is asking for 36M/4yr. He's not worth it. Change his name to Beckett & now you've got something. On the Schmidt radar he's allowed 4R, 9H, over 13IP. That's not bad. But SFG is asking for a King's ransom in talent & that's simply not good enough. His $10.5M 2005 option is not a question if it were. Kong is hitting just .189BAA/.704OOP vs LHers yet Gload remains in AAA. The team is hitting just .249BAA/.709OOP vs RHers yet we don't need to improve the lineup or the bench. This is the clearest sign to me that Ozzie is running this team. Not just on the field, but the front office too. Maybe we don't need Gload to spell Kong. The team is hitting a ton vs LHers: .296BAA/.827OOP. But what about our bats vs RHers? DH position: Carl Everett .239/.745 Frank Thomas .194/.841 3B position: Joe Crede .236/.717 Pablo Ozuna .227/.504 SS position: Juan Uribe .194/.516 Willie Harris .197/.476 That's a team in obvious need of help in this area. I read RSox are interested in Graffanino. If he's going to be traded it should be to the WSox. If not Tony then why not Randa? Tony Graffanino vs RHers: .313BAA/.843OOP Joe Randa vs RHers: .293BAA/.847OOP Tony can play any position adequately. Randa is primarily a 3B. But Crede is showing more range L-R this year than we've ever seen before. It should not be ruled out the possibility of Crede backing up Uribe vs tough RHers at SS. The WSox are sure to face the best RHers in the AL in the post-season. It would be foolish to think a team with a .709OPS in that dept can get the job done.

If he can do it all the power to him. vs LHers .308A/.400O/.641S - that's better than Gloady.